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 Post subject: Forester lift - parts list, suppliers, results
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:41 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
EDIT: Lift performed on my white 1994 Subaru Legacy SS! Here are before and after photos, and below that is my compendium of parts that I used for this operation along with links / suppliers / prices and even shipping transit times. Hopefully this will come in handy for someone else in the future. I've omitted the steering section of my compendium, as those were parts just for my steering situation - totally separate from the suspension modifications, even though I had all the work performed at the same time.

The reason I chose to do this was mainly because my old, factory shocks were totally blown and needed replacement. I decided to lift as I could also use a little more ground clearance where I live (down a poorly-maintained dirt road). I ended up spending far more than I expected but the results are nice!

LATEST UPDATES: The mechanic left me with advice to go get 4x 1' sections of square steel tubing to help strengthen the body lift. The idea is to drill holes in these square tubes for the bolts and spacers to run through, so that upon a hard impact the spacers don't get forced into the frame. He has recommended that I do this for the crossmember spacers (installed) and the rear diff plate spacers (I still need to find these, the crossmember spacers from the front may do the trick).

So far, it drives much better and the ride quality is exponentially improved over my old blown stock shocks! It really bites into turns and with the extra clearance, I can really throw the suspension around to dig in deep. Very fun, and the dirt road to my house is no longer an issue! It's also nice to be able to hit a bump and not start bouncing and bottoming out :roll:


Image
Before 98-02 Forester lift


Image
After 98-02 Forester lift


I've found the following useful table entry in the Suspension sticky, which appears to give me exactly what I need to proceed (I will be editing this post as I research and am corrected):

If you have a....And want strut/spring combo......Then you need
92-94 AWD......SF (98-02 forester)......................Probably Nothing

neat...and I just learned that our shocks are part of our struts. There's one more off my list. I did not know this right off the bat so I figured I'd make the info available to others that may not know.

SUSPENSION - Shopping list with links to intended orders (italics are optional) - can look up OEM part #s also here - select 1999 Subaru Forester. I have also found an entire Forester parts manual here - handy! I've extracted the 98-02 parts manual for reference and easy retrieval here on Mediafire.:
Total spent on parts: $642.40 (after returning unused Subaru OEM parts)
Labor:
$476.00 Remove / replace rear shock & strut assembly
$280.50 Remove / replace front shock & strut assembly
$20.00 Shop supplies (probably for the lock washers and other odds and ends)
$170.00 Remove / replace engine mounts
$467.50 Lift front suspension & replace bushings
Total labor = $1414.00
Total for all suspension upgrades = a lot ($2056.40!)







ORIGINAL FIRST POST BELOW--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Original subject was: "Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?"


So, hi everybody! I'm still around... been insanely busy but am finally living on my land in a house so things are starting to calm down. I have a 40' x 50' x 17' steel garage in pieces that hopefully will be put up soon. Until then, though, I don't even have a paved driveway to work on. So, I've been forced to have actual mechanics look at my car recently for my highway vibration & pull to the right.

I'd recently gotten an alignment done at this shop, and before that could be done they had to replace my passenger side tie rod end. This made sense, as if the tie rod end is in bad shape it will have too much play to hold an alignment (at least, as I understand things... I have very little knowledge of cars in general that isn't involved with the engine or the turbo and am trying to learn suspension and steering for my poor '94 SS)

Then, I had a jackhammer-like vibration at 75-80mph. They removed mud from the tires, rebalanced them, and that was gone.

However, then I started to notice it was pulling to the right again, and between 60-70mph there is a periodic vibration that comes and goes regularly and can be felt mainly in the steering wheel. The wheel shakes slightly, then violently, then slightly, then not at all for a couple seconds. Travelling above 70mph it pretty much goes away until I hit some sort of physical bump - then it starts up again for a couple cycles before settling back down.

Side note, I currently have 195/60/R15 tires. They are not all the same, due to one going flat and requiring a replacement. I took the wheel in, not the car, when I had this tire replaced (one of the many advantages to having multiple vehicles, I didn't even mess with my donut...). I did not realize it was that important to ensure that AWD vehicles had the exact same tire all the way around... could this have instigated the issues? I tend to think it's more the rough dirt / gravel road I have to go through to get to and from my house... it is quite punishing. Not to mention this T-leg has it's original suspension & steering parts (except the passenger tie rod end) from 1994...


Anyway, I took it back in yesterday to have them look into these issues. They came back with a laundry list:

    Struts (I should just replace with GR2s, right?)
    Shocks (no idea)
    (might as well get OB/Forrester springs or coilovers too...must find exactly what I need and get everything!)
    LF Outer tie rod!! (tie rod? not tie rod end?? I can't find tie rods...) EDIT - clarified, tie rods == tie rod ends when ordering parts
    Motor mounts (do our cars have motor mounts that normally rip? Do we have an aftermarket performance replacement, perhaps polyurethane mounts?)

    After all of the above, I will need another alignment

    They also insist that I need 4 new tires, they have 195/65/15. Will be slightly larger, will help my ride height and short gears slightly (from the 4.11 tranny / diff).


RESOLVED: My main question from all this that is completely stumping me:
Where do I get a replacement outer driver side tie rod? I have found endless posts and suppliers for inner and outer tie rod ENDS... but not tie rods themselves. Are these two terms used interchangeably? Do we have tie rods AND tie rod ends in these cars or am I sorely confused? Is it common at all to replace tie rods as opposed to tie rod ENDS?


Based on the fact that I have to negotiate a very rough dirt and gravel road multiple times a day, I'd like to use this opportunity to beef up the suspension and perhaps get the car set up for more off-road type usage. I'm interested in the OB/Forrester lift, as I could use some more clearance.. I'm also interested in coilovers if they are reasonably priced and would be a better option than the OB/Forrester springs / struts / shocks (Ground Control?)

I understand from reading posts here that the 93/94 Legacy has the correct top hats to accept the OB/Forrester setup. I just know damn near nothing about suspension and could use some assistance. :lol:

I plan to gather all the parts I need (once I know what those are) and then bring it all into the shop to install for me... then I can get the alignment done and 4 new tires at the same time. Just gonna be pricey so's I gotta plan and save...


Any suggestions, comments?



Thanks everybody! :)



edit: Mods, I apologize if this is in the wrong section but I am a bit unclear where steering posts go. This section mentions "axles" and that's getting pretty close... please move to the correct section if I screwed up :)

BTW I've already tried looking through those nice parts blowups we have available in our stickies... there are parts blowups for just about every system there except steering! I was hoping to see a clear blowup showing "outer tie rod" and "outer tie rod end" as separate parts to clarify my question but could not find it...


edit 2:
This was the original post that began the confusion, as I searched for "outer tie rod" and found this:
Quote:
Moog makes outer tie rods for our cars.

MOOG Part # ES2974 Right Hand - $55 each
MOOG Part # ES2975 Left Hand - $55 each

SUBARU OEM Part # 34140AA030 {Inner Tie Rod End: Left and right} - $32 each

prices / info are from Rockauto.com


Sounds like this post refers to tie rods, but then when I look up the MOOG part numbers on Rockauto.com, they are tie rod ENDS. I searched endlessly and could only find tie rod ENDS.

I have not yet been able to get a hold of the mechanic who told me this to ask for clarification, but once I do I will post an update here. (UPDATE: Clarified. Mechanic meant tie rod end, not tie rod. He uses the two terms interchangeably.)

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


Last edited by free5ty1e on Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:33 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Been told I need a new LF outer tie rod...? Tie rod END
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:23 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
OK so... I got a hold of the mechanic that gave me that list and he did indeed mean "tie rod END" - so at least there is my main answer.

I guess the remainder of this thread should probably be moved into the "Suspension" section now, since the drivetrain portion has been clarified now :)

Hmm.. can I move my own topics?

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:09 am 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 25087
Location: Houston, Tx
Chris,

I'll move your thread to the suspension forum.

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:26 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
Thanks Josh!

I'm sure this information is all already here but I've been searching and can't seem to put it all together... I just don't know suspension :(

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:07 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:56 am
Posts: 2264
Location: 10-9-oh(!), wa
Whew, quite the post.
First off, Welcome Back! :mrgreen: Did the LegacECU ever get finalized?
Regarding the suspension: It sounds like you've got it mostly sorted. Outer tie rod ends usually go first, but inners do go bad. Loose, worn-out, or generally bad condition steering rack bushings can cause an oscillating vibration. Coupled with a out-of-balance or bent wheel, it can get pretty bad. Whiteline makes urethane replacements that will last the life of the car and add noticeable steering feel.
Outback struts will give a significant lift, but beware of axle and suspension arm angles. Outback trailing arm mounts and control arm rear pivots may be needed to diminish the effects of lifting the car. DirtyImpreza is a very good resource for all things off-road Subaru related. In fact, here is good write-up of a complete Outback suspension swap.
GR2's are good budget replacement struts and are available for the outback.
I hope this covers at least most of your questions.


Don't be such a stranger. :wink:

_________________
93 legacy wagon L, 22T swapped (TW imitator)
johndrivesabox wrote:
Rally, my kyboard is brok, his has nohing o do wih h liquor.

mike-tracy wrote:
Sure is pretty! Too bad it sucks so hard. Err. You know what I mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:09 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
Hey man! Yeah, I've missed this place. Been so busy with other crap trying to get things going out here but am finally getting to the point where I can modify my car again :)

All this time, I've just been keeping up with basic maintenance... I've even left my winter boost setting for a couple years now. Been busting my ass as a temp, then a contractor, then finally as a full-time employee with a major gold mining company - which just happened a couple months ago. I came back on here to see what's been happening and WOW I am insanely interested to get a rob-tuned EJ20G ECU! That's exactly what I need, and exactly what I wanted to do with the LegacECU for the most part anyway... I may still get back into the LegacEBC though since I had that partially working. I still have the wiring in my car for it too.

Thank you for the info!! That's exactly the answer I need... I can plan this out now.
I need to find all the parts to gather before I bring the car in, so let me see if I got this correct in such a way that I could look these parts up with these names. Please correct me :)

    driver / left side tie rod end
    both inner tie rod ends (might as well while I'm in there, right? The passenger side outer was just replaced recently...)
    Whiteline urethane steering rack bushings (should I grab these, are they reasonable, would it be something they could do while they're in there without too much trouble?)

    (or did you mean Whiteline urethane motor mounts? Should I ignore his recommendation to replace the motor mounts? Ours look like fairly solid ones from the factory to me...)

    ...I should be able to (eventually) glean the required Outback model year(s) from the Suspension sticky for the below parts to basically swap right in to my '94 SS, right?
    Outback KYB GR2 struts
    Outback shocks (OEM?)
    Outback springs (do I need springs right away, am I going to regret not getting them changed while this was all apart? )
    Outback trailing arm mounts
    Outback control arm rear pivots



How bad would it be to wait on the 4 identical new tires? Should I rotate the odd tire out to the back? It is currently on the front. The rear and center have LSDs. Which would be preferable to have the odd tire on, the front with the open differential or the rear with the LSD?

That write up is for a later model Legacy... is that basically the setup we have too?

Think I'll end up with about 1.5" of lift as well with this basic list?


Oh, my. I appear to have generated more questions. It is starting to make sense though... :oops:

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


Last edited by free5ty1e on Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:38 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 25087
Location: Houston, Tx
All the tires should have a circumference within 1/4" of each other. So I'd start by checking that.

Also, you may want to start a new thread if you have more questions. It keeps things a little neater for future referencing of an issue.

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:36 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:56 am
Posts: 2264
Location: 10-9-oh(!), wa
It's all suspension related, so I think you should be good.

For clarification, you have struts at all four corners. Your stock springs will work fine on those struts, but you could get the Outback springs for a slightly higher spring rate. If you use your stock springs, you can re-use your stock tophats and not have to worry about locating the correct parts to fit outback springs.
I was referring to the steering rack bushings from Whiteline. Sorry for any confusion. Best to find those online, as cheap as possible, as they're all imported from Australia anyway.
To check if you need motor mounts, firmly grasp each valve cover in either hand and shake back-and-forth as hard as you can. If the motor moves more than you like, you need motor mounts. The factory mounts are liquid-filled IIRC, and can crack/rot and leak out causing them to move around quite a bit. Group N mounts from Subaru (for an Impreza) are a great upgrade but transmit a significantly higher amount of NVH.

_________________
93 legacy wagon L, 22T swapped (TW imitator)
johndrivesabox wrote:
Rally, my kyboard is brok, his has nohing o do wih h liquor.

mike-tracy wrote:
Sure is pretty! Too bad it sucks so hard. Err. You know what I mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:05 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
Awesome - I think that did it, now I know exactly what I need to check and the minimum I should purchase for this next visit to the mechanic. Everything I'm getting involved in now makes sense. (this board tends to have that effect!)

I will check relative tire circumferences and motor mount stiffness today and make some decisions based on that. Then, to the Suspension sticky to figure out what year would be most appropriate for the swaps.

Thanks, you guys! xD

I will post with results as far as exact part numbers I end up purchasing, before and after photos, and price tag. Once I get my garage up, I'll be back to taking photos and doing write-ups when I do something.

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:54 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
Just to continue documentation of this process, I've found the following useful table entry in the Suspension sticky, which appears to give me exactly what I need to proceed (I will be editing this post as I research and am corrected):

If you have a....And want strut/spring combo......Then you need
92-94 AWD......SF (98-02 forester)......................Probably Nothing

neat...and I just learned that our shocks are a part of our struts. There's one more off my list.

The below post from bushlocos (referring to a '92 Legacy) says the struts/shocks result in quite a bit of lift:

Quote:
You are correct. I put forester KYB GR2 struts and shocks on mine ($100 from PNP). That gave me about 2 1/2 inches. I did need to swap the rear tophats. The fronts just bolted up.
The only issue I ran into was the caster angle on the rears. The back wheels were riding almost at the front of the wheel well. I made it a little better by swapping the control arm mount with an outback one. It's still not perfect but it's definitely good enough.
I think it looks awesome, now I just need bigger tires.


So... do I need to choose a different model year Forester or Outback for less lift? Hmm... maybe I should just make it work with 98-02 Forester parts anyway...

Will I be going through axles like crazy with this setup? Anything else I'm missing that can help alleviate this at a reasonable cost?


STEERING - Shopping list with links to intended orders (italics are optional). Replacing tie rod ends procedure is here:
Total spent on steering section for this project so far: $107.23 (labor not included yet)
Steering labor to install above parts @ mechanic shop:
$212.50 - replace 1 outer tie rod end & both inner tie rods
$170.00 - replace steering gear / rack bushings
Total spent on steering: $489.73


SUSPENSION - Shopping list with links to intended orders (italics are optional) - can look up OEM part #s also here - select 1999 Subaru Forester. I have also found an entire Forester parts manual here - handy! I've extracted the 98-02 parts manual for reference and easy retrieval here on Mediafire.:
Total spent on parts:
Labor:
$476.00 Remove / replace rear shock & strut assembly
$280.50 Remove / replace front shock & strut assembly
$20.00 Shop supplies (probably for the lock washers and other odds and ends)
$170.00 Remove / replace engine mounts
$467.50 Lift front suspension & replace bushings
Total labor = $1414.00
Total for all suspension upgrades =




TIRES:
I managed to use a string to measure the circumference of my tires... also I notice I have 3 different types of tires on my ride!

LF and RF tires are both Kelly Charger brand and measure 75 11/16" circumference (but only in the center; the outer treads are down to 74 1/8" - perhaps these should be rotated to the rear!)

LR and RR tires both measure 75 7/16" circumference (barely within 1/4" of the front tires). The LR tire is a "Performance Radial" generic, and the RR tire is a Dunlop. Both have different tread patterns.

Since they are within 1/4" of each other, I need to wait and save up for 4 new tires and deal with these for now. Based on the different treads / tires / circumferences, are they in the best configuration for the current situation already or should I put the 2 different rear tires on the front to utilize the (different) outer tread depth? Or would it be more important to keep the 2 identical tires (Kelly Chargers) on the front for steering purposes?

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


Last edited by free5ty1e on Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:26 pm, edited 15 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:19 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:56 am
Posts: 2264
Location: 10-9-oh(!), wa
Chris, is this car an auto or 5mt?
It looks like you've got everything you need lined out. With the adjustability of those trailing arms (which are good deal, btw) you may not need the Forester trailing arm mounts, but its probably best to plan on them, just in case.
If you're worried about axle angles, you can use the outback subframe spacers spacers, as the guy in the writeup did.

_________________
93 legacy wagon L, 22T swapped (TW imitator)
johndrivesabox wrote:
Rally, my kyboard is brok, his has nohing o do wih h liquor.

mike-tracy wrote:
Sure is pretty! Too bad it sucks so hard. Err. You know what I mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:42 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
This one is a 5MT - it's got a 5MT from Japan with the 4.11 final ratio instead of the usual 3.9.

Ah, I didn't catch that one - I'll add outback subframe spacers to the list and see what I can find. Thanks! :)

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:13 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:56 am
Posts: 2264
Location: 10-9-oh(!), wa
With the 5MT, I'd put the differing size tires on the non-lsd axle. Were it a 4EAT, you could get away with running the off-sized tires in the rear with little to no problems.
I just had a peek under my Forester and the spacers look to be the same.

_________________
93 legacy wagon L, 22T swapped (TW imitator)
johndrivesabox wrote:
Rally, my kyboard is brok, his has nohing o do wih h liquor.

mike-tracy wrote:
Sure is pretty! Too bad it sucks so hard. Err. You know what I mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:43 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
That's what I came up with too; the greatest difference in tire sizes is between front and rear, unfortunately; both fronts match up within 1/16" and both rears match up within 1/16" - the only change I could really make is to move the different tread tires from the rear to the front, as they have more beef on the outside treads for turns anyway.

If the steering effect of having two different tread patterns on the front wheels will be negligible, that is what I intend to do.

First, though, gotta finish hunting down all the exact part numbers and suppliers I'll need for the suspension portion of this - which I've been updating in the above post as I find info.

All the steering bits are on the way, as are the group N STI motor mounts. If they arrive close enough to each other I'll have that all done at once, along with the alignment. Or should I wait on the alignment until my fresh struts are in? Will those affect the alignment?


When I search a parts catalog, will a search for "subframe spacers" come back with results I can use? Or is there another name for any of the parts I have listed in my Suspension list that could help me with my searches?


Thanks! xD

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:49 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:56 am
Posts: 2264
Location: 10-9-oh(!), wa
Its not a bad idea to get an alignment after replacing struts, definitely after replacing steering components. I've found that maxing the camber bolt all the way inboard gives a pretty decent amount of negative camber for street driving. Its best to take it to a shop to check cross-camber, though. If you mark the orientation of the bolts prior to removal, they should be pretty close after re-installation.

The spacers might need to come from Subaru or a wrecking yard. You may have to explain what you're after to a parts yard monkey. If you're handy or know a machine shop employee/operator, you can make your own in your desired height and material.

Steering rack bushings are ~1/2hr job. You might want to start soaking the clamp bolts in penetrating oil now, though, as they're prone to rusting and breaking upon removal.

_________________
93 legacy wagon L, 22T swapped (TW imitator)
johndrivesabox wrote:
Rally, my kyboard is brok, his has nohing o do wih h liquor.

mike-tracy wrote:
Sure is pretty! Too bad it sucks so hard. Err. You know what I mean.


Profile  Offline
 
 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:57 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
Thanks; I'll see what I can work out with the shop. I may not have all the components gathered by the time I head out for my vacation (going to NYC for a couple days then Orlando for 2 weeks here shortly) but I'll try to prepare everything as much as possible for the tire shop.

Are the steering rack bushing clamp bolts something I can get to without too much trouble in a dirt driveway or should I just bring the warning with me to the shop to soak those bolts in penetrating oil? If I can get to them I will presoak them before I bring the car in for service.

If I can't get all the suspension parts in time I'll see if the shop will replace the steering components and keep the knuckles marked so that I can keep my current alignment until the struts get installed.


Thanks!

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:14 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 25087
Location: Houston, Tx
You should be able to get to the steering rack buching clamp bolts off without too much hassle. Replacing the bushings is kind of a pain in the butt, but it can be done in a drive way with jack stands.

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Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:23 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
Gotcha. I still will probably just have the shop do it when they replace the tie rod ends.

Since I have no clue whatsoever where to look on a parts diagram for the following items (still not up to par on suspension in general), could someone that would recognize them look at this diagram (found an entire Forester parts manual here) and help me find OEM part numbers? I'm having a lot of trouble finding the exact pieces I need for these, here are my best guesses if I could find something close:

    *98-02 Forester crossmember spacers (are any of these correct? Will I need bolts, and any idea where I can get 'em other than a junkyard? None close...)
    *98-02 Forester trailing arm mounts (are these correct? Will I need bolts, and any idea where I can get 'em other than a junkyard?)
    *98-02 Forester control arm rear pivots
    *98-02 Forester control arm mount
    *98-02 Forester subframe spacers
    *98-02 Rear camber bolts

Anyone?

I found some lists of parts I can buy for 1999 Forester suspension, are any of the above parts called more than one name by chance? Any of them on this page? How about this page?

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:25 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:56 am
Posts: 2264
Location: 10-9-oh(!), wa
Chris,
It looks like you've got the right trailing arm mounts. The bolts for those, you can re-use.
The problem with finding replacements for the rest, other than the control arm pivots maybe, is that they're not wear items that get replaced with any regularity. You could try your local dealer, but expect to pay through the nose. Craigslist is another possible source. If you can find a wrecked car and buy the whole thing and part it (alotta work, i know), you could be money ahead. Or you might be able to find someone parting one.

_________________
93 legacy wagon L, 22T swapped (TW imitator)
johndrivesabox wrote:
Rally, my kyboard is brok, his has nohing o do wih h liquor.

mike-tracy wrote:
Sure is pretty! Too bad it sucks so hard. Err. You know what I mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:56 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
Sweet, thanks for confirming that! Added to my compendium post, above.

I've extracted and shared the Forester 98-02 parts manual here on Mediafire for easy retrieval and reference... unfortunately it is scanned as images with no OCR applied at all so - it is not searchable.

I have been looking over the Front (page 6-7) and Rear Suspension (pages 18-19) sections of the above PDF and do not see the parts that I need (at least, not yet). Can someone more familiar with the following parts help me find them in this parts manual so I know what part numbers to order from subaruparts.com? I have placed my best guesses with each of these items but am just not sure enough to order them...:

    *98-02 Forester crossmember spacers (are these called "Adapter, Crossmember" in the parts manual on page 6 under Front Suspension, p/n 20570AC040? If so, I need 2 correct? $51.48 ea according to OEM)
    *98-02 Forester control arm rear pivots
    *98-02 Forester control arm mount
    *98-02 Forester subframe spacers
    *98-02 Rear camber bolts

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:53 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
Hi everyone... I'm back from vacation! Had a Chevy Malibu as a rental in FL... man what a pile! Missed my Scooby greatly.

Anyway, I had been looking and have not been able to find the remaining pieces I need for this Forester lift (see previous post). I can't make heads or tails of the parts blowups I've been able to locate and have even gone so far as to contact a dealer to ask for part numbers on these items. I have not yet heard back.

If anyone can shed light on part numbers for the above pieces I'd quite appreciate it... the info for this upgrade will be added to the big post above and eventually will become a useful resource for others wanting to perform the same Forester lift with all part numbers and suppliers laid out and ready to order, even for suspension novices like myself.

If I hear back from the dealer with useful information I'll post it up, and once I have it all installed I'll post before & after photos as well as photos of the old / new parts for reference. I'll move the big post to the top so it is easier to find in the future.


Thanks in advance!


Edit: Here's the latest attempts at finding these parts. If anyone could confirm that would be great; I may just end up ordering some of the more reasonably-priced pieces here in the hopes that they are correct. I've ordered the shocks/struts and trailing arms so far. If all else fails I'll just have those installed and be gentle on the axles until I can find the support parts to lessen the angles:

*98-02 Forester crossmember spacers - On subarupartswebsite.com, labeled as "Engine C Member , Spacer" for $2.14 each -- Is this correct? How many do I need? I'm ordering 4 to be safe 8/29/2011...
*98-02 Forester control arm rear pivots
*98-02 Forester control arm mounts
*98-02 Forester subframe spacers
*98-02 Rear camber bolts - On this DriveWire page, labeled as "Raybestos Camber and Alignment Kit" for $13.99 each -- is this correct? Should I just get a set of 4, and will these kits work with my 1994 Legacy's knuckles?

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:06 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
Well, I was finally able to get the rest of the parts I thought I needed through a Subaru dealer that was willing to help me figure out what parts that list encompassed.

Got them to the mechanic here and got charged an arm and a leg for installation. He ended up recommending I go get 4 more crossmember spacers for use spacing out the rear diff plate - along with longer bolts, and then I should also go get some square tubular steel to fit the spacers through. He also recommended I get some square tubular steel to fit the crossmember spacers through on the front - he says if I hit the ground hard enough for any reason, those spacers could get driven into my frame and cause some serious problems.

Anyone ever done anything like that? I don't think the Forester has square tubular steel around the xmember spacers, according to the parts blowups I found, but it does sound like a good idea. Thoughts?

I'm going to start editing my above post to reflect the other part numbers I found and such. I'll get before and after photos (it really didn't seem to make that much of a difference in height) posted as well.

But I would be interested if anyone has strengthened their lifted suspension with square tubular steel around the spacers...or what you all think about that.


Thanks! :)

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:42 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:56 am
Posts: 2264
Location: 10-9-oh(!), wa
The square tube sounds like a good idea... as long as it has good contact area on the body. I'm having a hard time picturing how/where the spacers meet the body. Regardless, a larger contact area will spread a load over more area and reduce the likelihood of damage.
You say that you didn't achieve much of a lift. Did you already instal the outback struts?
I wish you were closer. Nevada is a bit of a drive to help a guy out.

_________________
93 legacy wagon L, 22T swapped (TW imitator)
johndrivesabox wrote:
Rally, my kyboard is brok, his has nohing o do wih h liquor.

mike-tracy wrote:
Sure is pretty! Too bad it sucks so hard. Err. You know what I mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:31 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
Yeah, unfortunately I wasn't available when he had those bits exposed on the hydraulic lift in the shop so I wasn't able to get any photos to elaborate. I kinda understand what he means and I think I'm gonna do it, although I'm not sure if I'd pay shop rates to have them installed. I'd just need 4 more of those $3 xmember spacers and 4 x 1ft section of 1 inch square steel tubing; he wants to weld these to the frame and use the spacers as sleeves for the bolts.

I haven't had much of a chance to drive it yet; it did seem to add about 1.5" of lift or so when compared side by side to my stock '92 with a more-or-less-intact suspension. I'll get photos this weekend as the weather clears up.

I can't wait to get my garage area going so I can start working on my cars myself again.

I gotta get an appropriate set of injectors, a MAF, and WRX ECU so that I can get a rob-tuned ECU and turn up my boost! I still have that spec-C twin scroll turbo waiting to be installed once the car can support it...but first, timing belt kit / oil pump / water pump / cam & crank seals :)

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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 Post subject: Re: Struts / shocks replacement time... Outback lift?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:08 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:26 am
Posts: 2215
Location: USA: Portland, OR (Hillsboro, ~200ft elevation)
Just an update; here's photos of my car before and after the lift. It' s noticeable but not too extreme. No axle problems yet..

I'm also updating the first post with these photos and the parts list from the compendium post with links and prices.

Image
Before 98-02 Forester lift



Image
After 98-02 Forester lift

_________________
-Chris
91SS 5MT, 230k mi, rebuild EJ22T then RobTune550 + VF36 TwinScroll...
92SS 4EAT - 175k mi, Still kickin'!
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 285k km: RobTune550 + TD05-16g @ 10psi (for now),FMIC,3"TBE,FCD,Forester lift


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