Rough price guestimate for fun

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:04 pm

Sometimes I daydream of having a monster of a legacy. I see all these guys boasting 400+WHP in thir stis and I'm jealous. My car doesn't even have a motor in it.

So what do you think would be a real rough estimate to build a monster with an STI powertrain. STI motor, tranny, rear diff, big turbo, ECU(with flash or whatever they do) and any other mods those guys do to their STIs to achieve 400+WHP?

PhyrraM · Post by **PhyrraM** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:21 pm

My gut feeling is...If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

I've seen totalled STIs go for $8-12K. Add ~$1000 to replace things that broke in the accident. Then go to the Nasticoc vendors websites and start your window shopping.

If you want cheap power, look for Dougs posts. After all of his rebuilds, he might not even be cheaper than a proper STI swap. Then again, he might.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:38 pm

I know I can't afford it lol that's why I said it was just for fun. But maybe some day....when I'm rich haha!

Aerotech · Post by **Aerotech** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:52 am

The answer depends on who's doing the work.
If you're just buying parts, and building the motor/drivetrain/suspension yourself, $5K-$8K is a resonable amount to spend to build an STI-competetive car.

If someone else is wrenching for you... like he said, if you have to ask...

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:31 am

Well I would install everything. But if there was any internal engine work it would probably need to be done by a shop.

What's lighter, sti or 1st gen legacy?

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:37 am

Looks like the sti weighs around 500lbs more than the legacy.

Aerotech · Post by **Aerotech** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:52 am

Not much, is it? And it's a much stiffer, better chassis. This is the problem with tuning our cars, you run into a point of diminishing returns when you chase a goal like the STI. The early Legacy is a good platform, but it's loose and floppy compared even to the GC Impreza, and miles behind the STI... it takes a lot of bracing (and money) to enable the chassis to handle the kind of power you're looking for.
After spending that kind of cash, you start to think you might have been better off just buying an STI.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:38 am

That saddens me.

Makes me want to buy an impreza.

Aerotech · Post by **Aerotech** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:53 am

I'm not trying to steer you away from the Legacy, just keep your feet on the ground when looking at all the goodies in the catalog!

I'm very happy with the way my car drives, but I have a feeling I'd still get my ass handed to me by a tuned STI.

But I can live with that.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:38 pm

I got my springs friday! I've been waiting about a month to get springs now. Pretty stoked on the sti springs with my brand new KYB GR2s. Hopefully that combo will work well.

I'm sure I'll keep the legacy for a long time. But I'm also thinking that someday I'll end up buying an impreza. I really like the imprezas too.

How do I get a picture of my car up on this board in the upper left corner? I don't have a picture yet but it would be cool to be up there with everyone else!

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:49 pm

Aerotech wrote:Not much, is it? And it's a much stiffer, better chassis. This is the problem with tuning our cars, you run into a point of diminishing returns when you chase a goal like the STI. The early Legacy is a good platform, but it's loose and floppy compared even to the GC Impreza, and miles behind the STI... it takes a lot of bracing (and money) to enable the chassis to handle the kind of power you're looking for.
After spending that kind of cash, you start to think you might have been better off just buying an STI.

I don't know. My old car ended up being extremely competitive with the STi...

James614 · Post by **James614** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:21 pm

kimokalihi wrote:Looks like the sti weighs around 500lbs more than the legacy.

A sport sedan is a good 3200 at least, and STIs range from 3200 to a tad over 3300. I don't think any AWD Legacy is much under 3100. My wife's '91 FWD is 2900 (with an auto), so I can only imagine a poopy FWD L 5spd being 500lbs lighter than an STI.

Or my numbers could be all wrong. But I'm sure they're not.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:22 am

My '93 Legacy L was supposed to weigh 2860 lbs but that was a 5mt and no ABS.

Like stated, $8-12k for a totaled STi. If you can't do the harness merging, expect to pay about $1k for someone like Garage Tuning to do it for you.

This is with ZERO mods, so keep that in mind. If you want 400 whp, expect to throw down several thousands on parts, tuning, other labor, etc. Doing everything yourself saves you a TON of money. The shops that I know of local to me get about $150 and hour for labor, so that can add up very quickly.

Before you know it, you've got over $20k into the car. The thing is, you can do better than a stock STi engine/driveline for that much money. I'm talking built EJ22T hybrid, 6mt or PPG's, nice suspension and brakes, standalone, other data aq, etc.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:28 am

True but you're gonna have to fork over a lot just to buy a an STI to begin with.

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:37 am

James614 wrote:A sport sedan is a good 3200 at least, and STIs range from 3200 to a tad over 3300. I don't think any AWD Legacy is much under 3100. My wife's '91 FWD is 2900 (with an auto), so I can only imagine a poopy FWD L 5spd being 500lbs lighter than an STI.

Or my numbers could be all wrong. But I'm sure they're not.

Where did you get your numbers from. I had my '93 Sport Sedan 5mt weighed on a calibrated scale and it was a shade over 2950 with a quarter tank and lots of crap in the car.

jamal · Post by **jamal** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:18 am

With race gas and/or meth it's pretty easy to make 400whp these days on an STi. Fuel pump, injectors, intake, exhaust, and a big stock location turbo will get you there. The parts for all that can be had for less than $5k. Unfortunately the stock 2.5 ring lands are treading on thin ice at that point. On an 07-08 the pistons don't even handle 350whp that well. You could also just put better heads and an intake manifold on the 2.2t block and save yourself some money there.

New pistons is a good start when you're doing internal work. Then a 12mm shimmed oil pimp.. Maybe some rods if you're feeling like it. At that point headwork and cams seems like a good idea especially if you're shooting for big power.

Then you can slap on a rotated 35R and make well over 500whp. wheee!

James614 · Post by **James614** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:44 am

Brat4by4 wrote:
James614 wrote:A sport sedan is a good 3200 at least, and STIs range from 3200 to a tad over 3300. I don't think any AWD Legacy is much under 3100. My wife's '91 FWD is 2900 (with an auto), so I can only imagine a poopy FWD L 5spd being 500lbs lighter than an STI.

Or my numbers could be all wrong. But I'm sure they're not.
Where did you get your numbers from. I had my '93 Sport Sedan 5mt weighed on a calibrated scale and it was a shade over 2950 with a quarter tank and lots of crap in the car.

I get all my dimensions in from autos.msn.com for anything made after 1988... the numbers for later model cars are right form the manufacturers, and I'll be damned if I can find any better of a source for the older cars.

It's worth noting that I didn't actually check any of those numbers recently; they were all quoted from memory. And it turns out that I don't remember quite as well I thought.

It says a '93 5mt SS is 3100.... take out 3/4 of the fuel, and take into account any equipment differences (sunroofs, anything non-OEM you have, etc), and the margin of error for the scales, and it sounds fairly close while still being well under my initial 3200 claim. Even the automatic SS it says is only 3180, so I have no idea where I got my "at least 3200" from. Wow I'm getting old. And I'm only 23

So yeah, I guess STIs do range from 400 to 500lbs heavier, unless you have a loaded Touring Wagon.

+1 for nitpicking and making myself sound like an ass.

PhyrraM · Post by **PhyrraM** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:28 am

http://www.legacycentral.org/reviews.htm

we've got a good selection of Legacy articles that have magazine printed weights. Road and Track articles in partcular usually have an "as tested" weight that can be trusted.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:09 am

Brat4by4 wrote:
James614 wrote:A sport sedan is a good 3200 at least, and STIs range from 3200 to a tad over 3300. I don't think any AWD Legacy is much under 3100. My wife's '91 FWD is 2900 (with an auto), so I can only imagine a poopy FWD L 5spd being 500lbs lighter than an STI.

Or my numbers could be all wrong. But I'm sure they're not.
Where did you get your numbers from. I had my '93 Sport Sedan 5mt weighed on a calibrated scale and it was a shade over 2950 with a quarter tank and lots of crap in the car.

Yeah I thought I saw on wikipedia or something that 1st gens weighed around 2750 or something.

James614 · Post by **James614** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:44 am

Nice to know about the articles on this site, but they seem inline with what MSN autos states anyways.

The Motor Trend SS vs. VR4 article states the same 3140lbs as MSN autos, and the Road and Track article of the SS states 3150lbs. The Car and Driver article states 3274lbs for their Touring Wagon, vs. 3300 on MSN autos. The Car and Driver review of the LS AWD has 2962lbs, vs. 2830 on both MSN autos and the Motor Trend review of the same car.

So I think it's safe to say my source is good enough. Chances are regardless of where I get my info from, I'm gonna mix up numbers if I try and quote them after months of having not seen them.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:39 pm

Thanks for those article links. I'll have to read those sometime.

beatersubi · Post by **beatersubi** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:56 pm

James614 wrote:
Brat4by4 wrote:
James614 wrote:A sport sedan is a good 3200 at least, and STIs range from 3200 to a tad over 3300. I don't think any AWD Legacy is much under 3100. My wife's '91 FWD is 2900 (with an auto), so I can only imagine a poopy FWD L 5spd being 500lbs lighter than an STI.

Or my numbers could be all wrong. But I'm sure they're not.
Where did you get your numbers from. I had my '93 Sport Sedan 5mt weighed on a calibrated scale and it was a shade over 2950 with a quarter tank and lots of crap in the car.
I get all my dimensions in from autos.msn.com for anything made after 1988... the numbers for later model cars are right form the manufacturers, and I'll be damned if I can find any better of a source for the older cars.

It's worth noting that I didn't actually check any of those numbers recently; they were all quoted from memory. And it turns out that I don't remember quite as well I thought.

It says a '93 5mt SS is 3100.... take out 3/4 of the fuel, and take into account any equipment differences (sunroofs, anything non-OEM you have, etc), and the margin of error for the scales, and it sounds fairly close while still being well under my initial 3200 claim. Even the automatic SS it says is only 3180, so I have no idea where I got my "at least 3200" from. Wow I'm getting old. And I'm only 23

So yeah, I guess STIs do range from 400 to 500lbs heavier, unless you have a loaded Touring Wagon.

+1 for nitpicking and making myself sound like an ass.

My L wagon was 3320 on a calibrated scale w/ me and some stuff in it.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:41 pm

Hahaha this article says the legacy weighs 2400 lbs!

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=37514

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:42 pm

I spoke too soon. Didn't read the article. That's not stock that's the WRC car. My bad.

92ss satinsvoice · Post by **92ss satinsvoice** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:43 am

for my build to 400hp ive spent around 4k on my engine, around there.

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Rough price guestimate for fun

Rough price guestimate for fun