Outback lift question

[Danny-G]

Would getting the only the springs give the same effect or should I stick to assembled struts?

[kimokalihi]

Off topic but is your signature a quote about my metro? lol

[Shaggy]

The springs in the back wont fit because u have to use ur old tophats and the springs on the first gen legacy is a tapered spring and the ones that come on the outback struts arent. They will work if u file the holes out a little in the rear mounts, but in my opinion thats kinda ghetto. The fronts are just straight bolt in. I kept the outback springs on the struts in the front but i switched the springs and tophats for the rear. I found out also that nobody sells assembled struts, not even the dealership, they have to put them together when they get them. The only way to get assembled struts are used.

[beatersubi]

^Rear springs should work w/ 92+ rear tophats.

[Danny-G]

Off topic but is your signature a quote about my metro? lol

Yes it is, I think I found it in your build thread.

^Rear springs should work w/ 92+ rear tophats.

Thats what I was thinking but I wasn't too sure.

[Freerange]

Use whatever springs and top hats you already have with kyb gr2's, or put new stuff in. If you can hear the strut top/coil banging around then the top hat is finished If you want to use non-tapered coils from something else in the rear then the '92+ leggy rear top hats will work. I've also slotted the holes in the rear to fit '97 outback tophats with a dremel-still rally beater tough.

Some tips for the outback lift:

Pressure wash the wheel wells.

Air tools are all but mandatory for swapping top hats. Not impossible, but it is a lot harder without.

Be exacting about lining up the rear top hats bolt orientation.

You can cut the brake line holder on the strut body (after you remove the clip) with a pair of wire cutters and bend it out of the way temporarily to remove the old struts without disconnecting the brake lines. On the new struts I usually notch the bracket with an angle grinder.

The last knuckle bolt in the rears is a struggle .

Bolt up the sway bars after the car is on the ground.

Drive it around, adjust camber as desired, watch front axle boots. If they are really old the constant increase in angle will tear the boots(you would have needed new axles pretty soon anyway, so pony up for some lifetime ones).


'90 LS sedan:
Before with 185/70/14's


After: Outback GR2's and '97 outback coils (rears have 93 lego top hats). Fenders trimmed and 225/60/16's -(215/60's are a better fit tho)


'92 Turbo sedan: Outback Gr2's, '02 WRX springs, 215/60/16 IPIKE's

[Legacy777]

Those things look beefy

[bry]

question for you lift gurus...

what is the difference in length between the spring perch and strut mount holes - outback vs '92-'94 legacy? this distance should be the lift achieved by simply buying and installing outback gr2 on an otherwise stock legacy. i'm not sure why people change the springs out. are the legacy springs too long to properly fit the stroke of an outback strut?

[Freerange]

This illustrates the differences in cartridge size, these are all rears, but the front has the same differences. tallest - '95-'99 outback (note the sagging piston means its wasted , middle-'98 forrester, short- 90-94 legacy. not pictured, but another option is ~2004 forrester strut which are taller that the outbacks by maybe another 3/4"- if you run these be prepared to change axles a lot or get some sort of body lift (Outback?) to go with it to get the axle angles less extreme

Springs: there is no need to get different springs at all, just get the outback strut slap it together. I usually change rears out for something stiffer to get rid of the saggy but syndrome. There can be some good/bad with any strut/spring combo.

[bry]

great pic! it looks like the outback and forester have a longer stroke than the legacy, so the legacy spring should mount with minimal compression and no chance of coil bind. the outback spring perch is higher than the forester and both appear at least an inch taller than the legacy.

i suspected you could just swap it out. as far as saggy butt, all '90-'94 fwd leg's look that way. i thought it was subaru's way of getting that long H4 nose off the ground....

i'm thinking new '95 outback Gr2's with some used '99 outback aluminum wheels is a usable mod. i bet new oe boots on the cv axles would last awhile with this setup.

[Freerange]

Side by side outback, forester and leggy springs are nearly identical in height. The Outback strut has about 1.5" more stroke, but the perch to top hat length is very similar to a leggy, it effectively gives you more travel, and a taller ride height making the car much more capable than before, plus unlike an outback there is no body lift giving the car more clearance than an outback

IMO its a lot easier to just swap axles, no greasy mess to tear apart and put back together, and unless your rebuilding your knuckles at the same time a re-man/new axle should be better, if the axle is new enough, then the rubber will be fine, if its old then the rubber will crack, do the lift and when the axle splits a boot it needs to be rebuilt or replaced, a new boot on an old axle is like a band-aid on a broken arm.

Full moon/solstice/lunar eclipse XC ski time again...

[bry]

i agree with most of what you say except that reman half-shafts use crappy boots. i've replaced 3 right hand axles (autozone, lifetime warranty) and one left hand in two years on the same '94 legacy because the boot cracks, throws all the grease and then starts clicking. all this in just 57K miles (she delivers mail). she couldn't justify oe axles as the car had 273k miles on it when i first began replacing the axles. who knew it would keep on running past 330k? you can't hardly kill a subaru although my nephew played travis pastrana and nearly killed the '90.

are those outback wheels on both of your cars?

[Freerange]

03 outback rims, same set actually, also have a set of 16" enkies I like, but anything in 15" will give you more tire options for cheeper without having to butcher your rear fenders. 5X100mm can be found on more than a few cars. Also bigger tires changes the gear ratio's and results in MPG losses, unless you get aftermarket engine management...

crappy axles suck, I havn't really found one that lasts

War Pony's for sure!

[wtdash]

If I missed it, mea culpa, but I don't see one of the main advantages of using the OB/Forester strut - more room for bigger tires.

The spring perch on the '93 will limit tire sizes you can install, IIRC.

TD

[Freerange]

yup, good looking out. You can even cut and move the perch up for even bigger tires!!!

[bry]

do not weld on pressurized hydraulic cylinders. for one, it could explode. and two, it will distort the cylinder bore causing leaks.....

[Freerange]

OK, but mine, and a lot of others, done by a very, very good welder, are working really well.

How do they weld them from the factory? Do they pressurize them after the collars are welded on somehow? They are filled with inert gas(nitrogen), if you puncture them they pop, and leak out becoming worthless, but explode? havn't seen that yet? I've seen quite a few welded, it might cook the insides a bit, but i can't tell if it hurt them, still running perfect after 20K of rough service on mine.

[Danny-G]

Ok, quick question regarding tires. Currently I have almost to the wear bar Forester tires on matching alloys, Whats the biggest tire, sidewall wise, that I can currently fit on the Forester alloys? And whats the closest matching size tire for 14" wheels for winter?

[Freerange]

with outback struts and cut rear fenders 215/60/16's are decent, you can go to 225/60/16, but first gear is really tall and your mpg goes down a good bit. I have an old set of 28X9.5X14 wildcats on a lego too.

[subie69]

ive got a 95 subaru legacy sedan ls, if i was to get just the rear struts from a 98 OB i could use my springs and tophat/mounts? and they would just go together and mount up like the legacy struts? its got a so called saggy "butt" and i bought all new springs strut everything and it didnt fix it i so i figure a larger strut should do the trick? i would also like to lift the front up a bit too, could i do the same as the back and just buy the OB struts? and use the front springs and tophats? would those bolt up just as easy as the back ? and if i was to do the OB struts all the way around would it still have a saggy butt? just up a tad higher?! lol but sorry about all the questions, any help i could get would be awesome cause i wouldnt like to order things and have them be the wrong thing. soo thank you! to whoever would like to help me!

[Freerange]

Yup, get the kyb gr2's for a 96-99 outback all the way around, use your springs, bump stops, boots, top hats... For the saggy butt you want to find a set of rear springs at a junkyard from a lego wagon, or outback, anything from 93-99 should work(just not the rear taperd springs from an early lego), or forester rear springs '96-'99, read the sticky on struts, get a higher spring rate.

you can put in the trailing arms from an outback, or a forester to fix the rear caster issue created by the taller struts, but its not mandatory and doesn't effect tire wear.

[subie69]

awesome thank you! would i be able to do this in steps? as in buy the two rear struts and put them in and fix the saggy butt and then buy front struts, or should i try and do it in all one step, and a set of rear legacy springs like and outback or just a legacy wagon? my legacy has brand new rear springs, and ive seen that there almost the same on a outback

[Freerange]

Do it all at once, unless you want that really raked, raised 2" in the rear, look and feel. Any wagon spec spring is usually stiffer than a sedan, but there is always something to be said for "run what you got". There is no way to 'rate' a spring by just looking at it, too many variables, uncompressed, laying side by side springs can be eyeballed...

[subie69]

yes yes very true, i never really thought about it like that, could have the same coil and everything just stiffer youll never no till its finished, but i guess your right doing it all at once would probly do the trick, how much lift do you think it would be to do outback struts all around using my springs and tophats? and will it blow my CV's?

[Freerange]

All this has been answered many many times before. Expect ~2", axles are axles, they blow, but more often the boots tear. Best get busy living.