New Legacy GT Turbo! What do y'all think?
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New Legacy GT Turbo! What do y'all think?
Hello all!
I just got back a while ago from the stealership, they had a special introduction for the new legacy gt turbo...snacks and refreshments, and demo vehicle for test drives, another just to check out. They are gorgeous...no HID's though...
I got to sit in the drivers seat and fiddle, turn in on, check out the sweet gauge warmup thing....they are so sweet! Its definately a nice package, a good value. Its amazing how far subaru has come in terms of fit and finish, and style, especially interior material quality. A little sad to see them go "upscale" but I do think they represent a good value...
Thoughts?
Thanks
I just got back a while ago from the stealership, they had a special introduction for the new legacy gt turbo...snacks and refreshments, and demo vehicle for test drives, another just to check out. They are gorgeous...no HID's though...
I got to sit in the drivers seat and fiddle, turn in on, check out the sweet gauge warmup thing....they are so sweet! Its definately a nice package, a good value. Its amazing how far subaru has come in terms of fit and finish, and style, especially interior material quality. A little sad to see them go "upscale" but I do think they represent a good value...
Thoughts?
Thanks
Micum
91 Legacy Turbo Sport - 94 JDM EJ20G
97 Legacy 2.5 GT - mod'd
93 Impreza L AWD (sold)
97 Legacy 2.5 GT (deceased)
98 Legacy Outback (sold)
91 Legacy Turbo Sport - 94 JDM EJ20G
97 Legacy 2.5 GT - mod'd
93 Impreza L AWD (sold)
97 Legacy 2.5 GT (deceased)
98 Legacy Outback (sold)
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new turbo
I like them they are very sleek and stylish, cant wait until a tuner gets ahold of one watch out!
Proud owner of a 1991 Silver 5MT
Gold wrx wheels,Straight Exhaust, DNA Boost Controler 12 Psi, Ngk's, De-Snorked, Carbon fiber hood scoop in the werks
1991 White 5MT(Sold to Friend), AKA BINFORD
"KEEP IT REAL, KEEP IT SUBARU"
Gold wrx wheels,Straight Exhaust, DNA Boost Controler 12 Psi, Ngk's, De-Snorked, Carbon fiber hood scoop in the werks
1991 White 5MT(Sold to Friend), AKA BINFORD
"KEEP IT REAL, KEEP IT SUBARU"
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I'm going to have a difficult time choosing between the STi the new Legacy when it comes time for a new car. Those seem to be the only 2 cars that meet my criterion for a new car.
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.
[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.
[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
Phil. . . . I can make that decision A LOT easier for you.
Legacy GT - Excellent daily driver with luxurious appointments. Larger, better mileage, more comfortable than STi.
Impreza STi - Not as friendly as Legacy, but much better platform for ALL types of racing, as well as huge market for upgrades to engine, suspension, body, interior, etc.
They're priced within about $1000 of each other . . . THAT'S the hardest part of it all. . . either way, you're looking at around $31,000 new.
Legacy GT - Excellent daily driver with luxurious appointments. Larger, better mileage, more comfortable than STi.
Impreza STi - Not as friendly as Legacy, but much better platform for ALL types of racing, as well as huge market for upgrades to engine, suspension, body, interior, etc.
They're priced within about $1000 of each other . . . THAT'S the hardest part of it all. . . either way, you're looking at around $31,000 new.
"Power is NOTHING without control"
1994 & 2005 Legacy GT Wagons
1994 & 2005 Legacy GT Wagons
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Gotta look at the torque curveLaureltheQueen wrote:Legacy, hands down. I cant barely use 160 hp, what am i going to do with 300?
besides, legacy looks less like a hot wheels
Surprisingly if you look at all the hp/torque ratings for the legacy, turbo legacy, 2.5 rs, wrx, & sti......you'll see something a little different with the turbo legacy. It makes its max torque at an insanely low rpm. This translates into a lot faster feeling car.
Here's a blurb from Larry Witherspoon....
I Have a long term project to upgrade a spare EJ22T engine, and I think you guys might like to bounce some engine design opinions around
Even with the introduction of the STi, I still believe the EJ22T is the strongest production block Subaru has ever made, and would like to stay with it, although my modest desire to double the 160 factory horsepower of the production engine can be easily accommodated by the new age blocks out there now.
A while back I spent big bucks to have heads and valves from a new Phase II 2001 RS 2.5 engine reworked and upgraded by Dan Paramore
http://www.dprracing.com/ and http://www.dprracing2.com/home.html
Those heads are for sale, and anybody that wants pictures and what I call the full late nite TV infomercial about them send me email
I decided against using them, mainly because of the lack of some features not present on the 2.5 heads as on the stock EJ22T heads.
Specifically, the EJ22T head coolant passages match the design of the EJ22T block, and there are 3 holes in the right cylinder head for the turbo oil supply, oil return, and coolant return
Anybody out there know if those features are present on the 2.0T or 2.5T turbo heads ?
Another concern I had about using the 2.5 heads on the 2.2T block was the resulting compression ratio (C/R).
Increasing the 2.2 displacement is one of the considerations for my project.
What is the resulting C/R when a 2.5 crank is used in a 2.2T block ?
Are new pistons necessary to prevent the EJ22T engine from going from a non-interference to an interference condition ?
Also the 2.5 heads have larger intake valves, which may be desirable for higher overall peak power and rpm potential, but my target is low end street torque, and the smaller EJ22T valves may result in higher intake flow at low RPM, and actually be more conducive to the higher low end torque I seek, especially with the proper cam.
The factory REDUCED the size of the intake valves on the 2.2 turbo engine vs the 2.2 normally aspirated (N/A) engine. Was that because the automotive engineers designing the EJ22T engine to accommodate forced induction are stupid ? I don't think so. The increase in torque produced by the turbo version of the 2.2 engine over that of the 2.2 N/A version, is significantly greater than the horsepower increase over that of the 2.2 N/A version. Although closely related, low speed performance, AKA acceleration, is spelled TORQUE, not POWER.
To put things into perspective consider the following with special attention to engine speeds
The 3.3 liter SVX was rated at
230 HP @ 5400 RPM and 228 Lbs-Ft of torque at 4400 RPM
The new 3.0 liter H-6 engines are rated at
212 HP @ 6000 RPM and 210 Lbs-Ft @ 4400 RPM
The 2.5 RS engine that my reworked heads are from, spec'd out at
165 HP @ 5600 RPM and 166 Lbs-Ft @ 4000 RPM
The North American WRX 2.0 engine is rated at 13.5 PSI max boost
227 HP @ 6000 RPM and 217 Lbs-Ft @ 4000 RPM
The impressive 2.5 STi factory numbers are given with 14.5 PSI max boost as
300 HP @ 6000 RPM and 300 Lbs-Ft @ 4000 RPM max boost 14.5 PSI
The original stock EJ22 engine provided
130 HP @ 5600 RPM and 137 Lbs-Ft at 4400 RPM
The figures for the lowly factory turbo EJ22T engine at 8.7 PSI max boost come in at
160 HP @ 5600 RPM, but check the torque...181 Lbs-Ft at only 2800 RPM
That's a 23% power increase and a 32% torque increase, but the 32% torque increase is at a 36% lower engine speed. The max torque comes at an engine speed that's less than two thirds that of the normally aspirated engine
None of the other engines have a torque band shifted to the left in the RPM range like the EJ22T
My desire is to expand the power and torque curves without shifting them, with engine balancing, increased boost, enhanced ignition and induction controls, and perhaps some lighter components.
Power and torque values with respect to boost are not exactly linear, but if we just look for some ballpark ratio approximations for reference points, and provide the EJ22T engine with as much boost as the STi engine we get 267 HP and 302 Lbs-Ft. That's without all the other improvements.
And there is something just plain appealing to me about working with the type engine that originally came in the car without changing too much unnecessarily. Especially if the gains achieved are at the expense of headaches to get there, and more importantly, if those changes bring a higher level of risk to reliability and durability in the final result.
Somebody that want's fancy upgraded 2.5 Phase II heads please buy mine so I can have more money for hot rod work, and you can save money on fancy upgraded 2.5 Phase II heads.
Larry Witherspoon
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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I saw my first 05 Legacy GT today at the dealer! It was a black 2.5GT Wagon 5MT with a Momo shift knob.
The car is even more beautiful in person than it is in the pics. Subaru has never made a better looking car, period.
Also, IIRC, the sticker on it was $27k something...
I wished I had a camera with me then
The car is even more beautiful in person than it is in the pics. Subaru has never made a better looking car, period.
Also, IIRC, the sticker on it was $27k something...
I wished I had a camera with me then
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK
"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"
*Formerly DerFahrer*
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"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"
*Formerly DerFahrer*
@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
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No navigation. The guys on legacysti cry about it all the time. Personally I'll just buy a portable, reliable $10 map for the few times I need it.
Steve
Steve
Midnight in a Perfect World on Amazon or order anywhere. The first book in a quartet chronicling the rise of a man from angry criminal to philanthropist. Midnight... is a distopic noirish novel featuring 'Duchess', a modified 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon.
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The base MSRP for the Legacy 2.5 GT sedan is $25,995 according to Subaru of America's web site.
Steve - Yeah, those "maps" are pretty advanced. I hear the new ones can even run when your battery's dead!
Steve - Yeah, those "maps" are pretty advanced. I hear the new ones can even run when your battery's dead!
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Laurel my dear.....you can never have too much power and yes...yes I am a guy...lol.
Yeah screw the nav stuff.....I really don't care. I am a little ticked they didn't put HID's on though. I'm goin to try and go see one of the new legacies this weekend. I'll definitely take some pics.
Yeah screw the nav stuff.....I really don't care. I am a little ticked they didn't put HID's on though. I'm goin to try and go see one of the new legacies this weekend. I'll definitely take some pics.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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The 2.5GT Limited MSRPs for $29,695 (with the optional 5A tranny)LaureltheQueen wrote:maybe it's 27 plus navigation and everything else they'll throw on there
So yeah. . . within about $1,000 of the STi, depending on configuration. (I always like to highball things to reflect real-world pricing, demand, etc.)
And yes, I AM a slut.
"Power is NOTHING without control"
1994 & 2005 Legacy GT Wagons
1994 & 2005 Legacy GT Wagons
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I like the Legacy better than the STi for the slight cost advantage, and for the appearance and utility. If I really wanted to I'm pretty sure I could get the Legacy GT to outperform a stock STi without too much trouble. And you'd be a lot more likely to cruise past a bear safely in a Legacy than an STi. I also doubt Legacies are going to achieve the same theft rate STis have managed.
I frankly think halogens are better than HIDs -- the cost difference really is immense and halogens perform better under many conditions.
I do want to know more about the headlamp beam patterns though.
I frankly think halogens are better than HIDs -- the cost difference really is immense and halogens perform better under many conditions.
I do want to know more about the headlamp beam patterns though.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
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Laurel - There is no such thing as to much power. To little traction is where problems come into the picture.
It would take quite a bit of thought for me to decide between the two cars. I'm pretty much set on one or the other for my next vehicle.
Is the 2.5GT available in a 6-speed, or is it just the 5-speed?
It would take quite a bit of thought for me to decide between the two cars. I'm pretty much set on one or the other for my next vehicle.
Is the 2.5GT available in a 6-speed, or is it just the 5-speed?
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.
[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.
[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
Phil. . . for now, until the rumors of bringing a Legacy STi to the states materializes, the Legacies will have 5-speed manuals. They ARE beefed-up, though. . . not as easy to break as the WRX's.
And I have to agree with the power statement, Phil. I wondered how I'd adjust to ALWAYS having 300hp under my foot. . . and you know what? I do just fine. In fact, I find that I drive a tad slower and much more cautiously out of respect for said power.
Rain and ice/snow are the only times you really have to watch it. . . even with AWD the thing can get a little tail-happy.
I also agree that the 2.5GT is a better overall car than the STi. FAR more useful, far less ostentatious, and the power seems. . . well, perfect. As I said before. . . had I not picked up an STi last October, I'd be driving a 2.5GT wagon at this very moment.
And I have to agree with the power statement, Phil. I wondered how I'd adjust to ALWAYS having 300hp under my foot. . . and you know what? I do just fine. In fact, I find that I drive a tad slower and much more cautiously out of respect for said power.
Rain and ice/snow are the only times you really have to watch it. . . even with AWD the thing can get a little tail-happy.
I also agree that the 2.5GT is a better overall car than the STi. FAR more useful, far less ostentatious, and the power seems. . . well, perfect. As I said before. . . had I not picked up an STi last October, I'd be driving a 2.5GT wagon at this very moment.
"Power is NOTHING without control"
1994 & 2005 Legacy GT Wagons
1994 & 2005 Legacy GT Wagons
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I think the new GT's are sweet! They might be at the local dwealership now but weren't a couple weeks back when I checked. I saw a black GT wagon at STPR though that was lookin' very good!
In terms of getting a Legacy GT or STI, I say wait and get a Legacy STI!
In terms of getting a Legacy GT or STI, I say wait and get a Legacy STI!
-Matt
'92 SS 5mt. All go and no show. Sold :(
'94 Audi UrS4 Modded (new project)
'96 Outback 5mt.
'07 Legacy 2.5i SE
[quote="Redlined"]
Oh... and I hope the fucker get bunked with Gunter, arrested for raping Gorillas.[/quote]
'92 SS 5mt. All go and no show. Sold :(
'94 Audi UrS4 Modded (new project)
'96 Outback 5mt.
'07 Legacy 2.5i SE
[quote="Redlined"]
Oh... and I hope the fucker get bunked with Gunter, arrested for raping Gorillas.[/quote]
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vrg3 wrote:
I do want to know more about the headlamp beam patterns though.
Vikash and his beam patterns!
-Matt
'92 SS 5mt. All go and no show. Sold :(
'94 Audi UrS4 Modded (new project)
'96 Outback 5mt.
'07 Legacy 2.5i SE
[quote="Redlined"]
Oh... and I hope the fucker get bunked with Gunter, arrested for raping Gorillas.[/quote]
'92 SS 5mt. All go and no show. Sold :(
'94 Audi UrS4 Modded (new project)
'96 Outback 5mt.
'07 Legacy 2.5i SE
[quote="Redlined"]
Oh... and I hope the fucker get bunked with Gunter, arrested for raping Gorillas.[/quote]
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they're shocked that someone would have such little respect for their eyes. :-p
I heard from a police officer that most drivers have more power than they can handle, and i definitely agree. While I definitely would love to have a car that accelerates faster at times like when I'm getting on the freeway and passing people, I realize when I autocross that I dont even have control of the measly 160 stock hp the car puts out now.
I heard from a police officer that most drivers have more power than they can handle, and i definitely agree. While I definitely would love to have a car that accelerates faster at times like when I'm getting on the freeway and passing people, I realize when I autocross that I dont even have control of the measly 160 stock hp the car puts out now.
Laurel Tuning Stage 15
92 Touring Wagon 5MT 16G
[quote="NICO I WRX U"]the streets are my track[/quote]
92 Touring Wagon 5MT 16G
[quote="NICO I WRX U"]the streets are my track[/quote]
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In my experience, most police officers have more power than they can handle, too.
But that's why I try to recommend slow cars to learner drivers. Part for safety, part to really learn how to drive without using the gas pedal as a crutch. However, powerslides are fun, too.
Steve
But that's why I try to recommend slow cars to learner drivers. Part for safety, part to really learn how to drive without using the gas pedal as a crutch. However, powerslides are fun, too.
Steve
Midnight in a Perfect World on Amazon or order anywhere. The first book in a quartet chronicling the rise of a man from angry criminal to philanthropist. Midnight... is a distopic noirish novel featuring 'Duchess', a modified 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon.