legacycentral bbs

I called and talked with one of the engineers at KYB. I got some good info....

I mainly was asking about differences for struts between the AWD 90-91 MY's and the 92-94 MY's.

Front:
The 92-94 legacies. The front spring seat sits 1/2" higher compared to the 90-91 legacies. ALSO, the damping is slightly firmer on the 92-94 legacies compared to the 90-91 legacies.

Rear:
The 90-91 Legacies. The rear spring seat sits 3/4" higher compared to the 92-94 legacies.


Now I'm not sure how these struts compare to the OEM struts, but at least we know exactly what the difference is now between the MY's.

josh

One thing I forgot to add

KYB's stance on lowering is that depending on the application, if it's been lowered 1.5" or less it'll be ok. We did discuss the AGX vs GR2 and which was ok for use with a lowered suspension. He said a lot depends on the springs. If the springs have a higher spring rate, they will need higher damping to control the springs. So depending on the spring, the GR2's could be ok, but if you wanted to run a spring with a much higher spring rate, the agx's would be the way to go, and they should be run with their adjustments no less then 2 (if it's 4 way adj), and no less then 4 (if it's 8 way adj.)

This also accounts for the "nose to the sky" problem that some people complain of after replacing their struts.

btw- i had figured this out months ago by comparing peoples problems and what they'd done. I'm sorry I showed up too late in this thread to say anything, I haven't been around much.

Thanks for confirming josh!

no prob.

Josh, you seem to have good connections. Is it possible if you could contact the KYB engineer and ask if they make the front struts as per original specs regarding where the spring seat is welded onto the strut?

From what I've found, all the struts now made are manufactured according to the superceded PN specs. That means the front struts (including the GR-2s) have the spring seat welded about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches higher than the original manufactured struts.

Would the KYB engineer know if KYB can manufacture the GR-2s but with the spring seat welded 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch lower than where they have it welded now?

This would solve the problems of a lot us on the board.

Don't know if you can do this but thanks for at least considering it.

So, Josh, according to the engineer, what would be considered a "higher spring rate"? Can the H&Rs, Whitelines, or Eibach's springs be used with the GR-2s, according to the official KYB stance? Or would those springs fall in to the higher spring rate category and AGXs would be recommended?

I'm asking because this question (and the question on the previous post) because I was just about to order HR springs this coming Monday (I spoke to Dale at Teagues Auto and he tried both the HR and Whitelines on his Suby and to him they both were identical in feel and performance--and since the HRs drop the front end more than the Whitelines, I'm thinking of going in that direction). But that may change depending upon if there are any answers to the above-asked questions.

BTW, I phoned KYB and I couldn't get nearly anywhere near the kind of info you got from the KYB engineer.

h&R springs weights areare ~200F, 189R LBS.(they are slightly progressive)

The ideal springs for GR2's are 151, 151lbs. so H&R's are roughly 24% more spring than the shock is designed to work with.

I'm not gonna make any statements on "oversprung" or "underdamped," I'll leave that to others.

Ahh the power of math and the suspension information compendium! (sticky at the top of the suspension forum)

scottzg: I've referred to the info in your sticky many times while trying to figure out what springs to get. Thanks for your work in gathering all that info!

Accoring to the sticky, the Whitlines or Eibachs would be the best choice but no one I can find seems to have the Eibachs and the Whitelines are up to a 3 month backorder, maybe (I don't get a firm answer). My right front GR-2 strut is knocking constantly and getting progressively worse because the top mount is gone and my new tires will get chewed up (the moving strut is somehow playing havoc with the alignment). So I wanted to get some springs farily quickly (my mechanic friend is willing to help me out by R&Ring the top mount but he wants me to have the springs available because he's going to take 3/4 of a day to do all 4 corners, plus check out my brakes (it's pulling strongly to one side).

Anybody knows where I can get 4 Eibachs or Whitlelines within a week at $240 or less?

i have 2 brand spanky new 2.5 rs front springs under my feet right now that I'd let go for 75 incl shipping. I'm gonna return them in a day or so. I can take a pic of how they look on my car.

I did provide a bit more info than just "look at the sticky" (least whiney voice)

scottzg: How much drop with the 2.5 RS springs in front and back? Where can I get the rear springs from? (I never considered looking into those springs because there was no info on the drop and because they were made for Impreza.) Pics of how they look on your car would be nice (will need to know if the struts they are on are OE or aftermarket). Thanks!

2.5 rs struts and springs


and


talk to me at night and you get night photos

Is there a difference between the RS spring height and the WRX spring height?
Different springs altogether? I'm about to do a WRX strut/spring swap and I figure I should looking into these things before hand ...

Scott, is your left front tire flat?

Thanks for the night photos. Hmmm, I still can't see the top of the front tire area very well but it seems to still be higher than original height. Any possibilities of taking day pics since I'm now talking to you during the day?

If I got front struts for an MY92-94, and rear struts for an MY90-91, would that increase my tire clearance slightly? Would that even work?

It seems that it would, and with a set of Whiteline springs, the car would still sit at a decent stance.

When I test fit the Gram Lights and 225/45/17 Azenis, the spring perch was close to buzzing the rear. If I could get the perch a little higher, that would be sweet. The question is, will the 90-91 KYB's FIT a 92-94, and will I have any SNAFU's in using them?

BAC5.2 wrote:If I got front struts for an MY92-94, and rear struts for an MY90-91, would that increase my tire clearance slightly? Would that even work?

It seems that it would, and with a set of Whiteline springs, the car would still sit at a decent stance.

When I test fit the Gram Lights and 225/45/17 Azenis, the spring perch was close to buzzing the rear. If I could get the perch a little higher, that would be sweet. The question is, will the 90-91 KYB's FIT a 92-94, and will I have any SNAFU's in using them?

that what i interpreted it to mean too. i would love that setup for rally cross. now if only it were AWD.

I want that setup for road racing. Since the lift is about equal on each end, it's just a matter of mixing and matching. It'll lower the car the right amount without sacrificing the sacred ground clearance. Couple that with a whiteline ALK, and the car will turn-in like a friggin Miata. And I'll be able to clear 225's (or wider) with no problem

Now to test fit my buddy's 18" SSR Comp's that he got for his 05 GT...

93Leg-c wrote:Josh, you seem to have good connections. Is it possible if you could contact the KYB engineer and ask if they make the front struts as per original specs regarding where the spring seat is welded onto the strut?

From what I've found, all the struts now made are manufactured according to the superceded PN specs. That means the front struts (including the GR-2s) have the spring seat welded about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches higher than the original manufactured struts.

Would the KYB engineer know if KYB can manufacture the GR-2s but with the spring seat welded 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch lower than where they have it welded now?

This would solve the problems of a lot us on the board.

Don't know if you can do this but thanks for at least considering it.

I'm not sure if I still have the contact info for the engineer. However I would assume that KYB would manufacture struts in accordance to OEM specs. However I can not confirm this either. Without have drawings/specs for all the struts subaru used, and compare the dimensions with what KYB....it'd be hard to pin point a definitive answer.

I sort of doubt KYB would do any custom strut work....

I'll see if I can dig up contact info....but no guarantees.

93Leg-c wrote:So, Josh, according to the engineer, what would be considered a "higher spring rate"? Can the H&Rs, Whitelines, or Eibach's springs be used with the GR-2s, according to the official KYB stance? Or would those springs fall in to the higher spring rate category and AGXs would be recommended?

I'm asking because this question (and the question on the previous post) because I was just about to order HR springs this coming Monday (I spoke to Dale at Teagues Auto and he tried both the HR and Whitelines on his Suby and to him they both were identical in feel and performance--and since the HRs drop the front end more than the Whitelines, I'm thinking of going in that direction). But that may change depending upon if there are any answers to the above-asked questions.

BTW, I phoned KYB and I couldn't get nearly anywhere near the kind of info you got from the KYB engineer.

I don't know exactly what would be considered a "higher" spring rate, however any lowering spring or spring with a spring rate a fair amount more then stock would probably fall in that category.

I've been using gr2's with my whitelines for a while now and they've been great.

the only reason I'm going to the AGX's is because I have a few miles on the struts and think I could use slightly more damping in the front, and want the tweakability factor that the AGX's have.

So you should be able to run the h&r's with the gr2's just fine

scottzg wrote:h&R springs weights areare ~200F, 189R LBS.(they are slightly progressive)

The ideal springs for GR2's are 151, 151lbs. so H&R's are roughly 24% more spring than the shock is designed to work with.

I'm not gonna make any statements on "oversprung" or "underdamped," I'll leave that to others.

Ahh the power of math and the suspension information compendium! (sticky at the top of the suspension forum)

Why would you want the same spring rates f & r on a car that does not weigh the same in the front and rear?

From talking with a rep at whiteline, they design their springs to get the motion ratio of the front & rear equalled out based on the car's weight distribution.

BAC5.2 wrote:If I got front struts for an MY92-94, and rear struts for an MY90-91, would that increase my tire clearance slightly? Would that even work?

It seems that it would, and with a set of Whiteline springs, the car would still sit at a decent stance.

When I test fit the Gram Lights and 225/45/17 Azenis, the spring perch was close to buzzing the rear. If I could get the perch a little higher, that would be sweet. The question is, will the 90-91 KYB's FIT a 92-94, and will I have any SNAFU's in using them?

I see no reason why this wouldn't work. You'd be stuck with the GR2's only, not the AGX's.....but no biggy.

Oh Yes biggie

I want the AGX's (for the tweakability, as you say).

Well, the front is the only part that bothers me. The more tire clearance I have on the strut up front, the more at ease I'll be.

No AGX's for the rear of the 90/91? Damn blast it .

Well, maybe a set of whiteline springs with GR2's wouldn't be SO bad. It'd be a good intermediate step from now and coilovers (and it'll be a judging factor on whether or not I want to go the coilover route).

I'll be converting to Group N top-hats, so that'll stiffen things up a bit, and hopefully will control any possible play that might cause any kind of tire/strut conflict.

Now to get my fenders rolled....

Yeah.....I guess like you said....it is a biggie.

I'll see how my ride height is. If I don't like it, and find that I'm happy with where the positioning is in the rear, I may get a set of 90-91's rear gr2's.

I don't know.....we'll see.

Legacy777 wrote:

scottzg wrote:h&R springs weights areare ~200F, 189R LBS.(they are slightly progressive)

The ideal springs for GR2's are 151, 151lbs. so H&R's are roughly 24% more spring than the shock is designed to work with.

I'm not gonna make any statements on "oversprung" or "underdamped," I'll leave that to others.

Ahh the power of math and the suspension information compendium! (sticky at the top of the suspension forum)

Why would you want the same spring rates f & r on a car that does not weigh the same in the front and rear?

From talking with a rep at whiteline, they design their springs to get the motion ratio of the front & rear equalled out based on the car's weight distribution.

On BC's the stock spring rate is the same front and rear right?

Legacy777 wrote:

93Leg-c wrote:Josh, you seem to have good connections. Is it possible if you could contact the KYB engineer and ask if they make the front struts as per original specs regarding where the spring seat is welded onto the strut?

From what I've found, all the struts now made are manufactured according to the superceded PN specs. That means the front struts (including the GR-2s) have the spring seat welded about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches higher than the original manufactured struts.

Would the KYB engineer know if KYB can manufacture the GR-2s but with the spring seat welded 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch lower than where they have it welded now?

This would solve the problems of a lot us on the board.

Don't know if you can do this but thanks for at least considering it.

I'm not sure if I still have the contact info for the engineer. However I would assume that KYB would manufacture struts in accordance to OEM specs. However I can not confirm this either. Without have drawings/specs for all the struts subaru used, and compare the dimensions with what KYB....it'd be hard to pin point a definitive answer.

I sort of doubt KYB would do any custom strut work....

I'll see if I can dig up contact info....but no guarantees.

doesnt kyb make the oem struts we use though?

THAWA wrote:
On BC's the stock spring rate is the same front and rear right?

for the AWD's yeah they're the same...at least from the info I have....