Hi Larry,
All non-USA turbos have an intercooler. BC-BF has air-water, and BG-
BH has air-air. Air-air is more efficient, and improved with water-
sprayer, cold intake... front-mounting, etc
There are significant model differences between the USA models, Euro
models, ROW models, Japan and some export models.
For example...
- non-USA BC-BF is 1989-1993, 1990-1994 in the USA
- non-USA BC-BF turbos are EJ20 producing a minimum of 220hp, only
the USA had the low-boost EJ22
- all non-USA turbos had intercoolers from 1989
- all non-USA BC-BF are viscous AWD LSD on front and rear
- premature failure of wheel bearings, disc rotors are a USA only
phenomena
I believe the differences are attributed to USA emission legislation,
trade / tarrif restrictions forcing SoA to use locally sourced
components. I am sure FHI would have supplied the "standard" product
configuration if they had been able to... but couldn't beat the
politics.
John
> Hi John and Paul - I feel like there should be a George too.
>
> We didn't get intercoolers in the US turbo Legacy (Liberty).
Someday I would
> like to fit one. Do you normally have an over the engine air-to-
air or
> air-to-water in Finland and New Zealand? Do you have any
preferences for one
> over the other?
>
> Larry Witherspoon, Torrance (Los Angeles), California
intercoolers
Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators
-
Michael Ekstrom
intercoolers
John seems to know Legacys, no doubt about that... but just one
comment, in Finland (and I think in whole Scandinavia too), the EJ20
was imported between 1990-1994 as "Legacy 200 Turbo". The "200"
stands for 200HP.
Michael
comment, in Finland (and I think in whole Scandinavia too), the EJ20
was imported between 1990-1994 as "Legacy 200 Turbo". The "200"
stands for 200HP.
Michael
-
Alan Croxford
intercoolers
Hi John,Paul and Larry
We are just starting to see a few EJ20 engines in the states as far
as I know. We did have one installed but the engine is out now
because of oil in the cooling system. We have the engine apart now
and
can not find the leak. I am in the process of fitting the water
cooled
IC to my engine as I read in AutoSpeed that it did work well. I do
not
have the room to mount a air to air front mount as my engine is
installed in a '95 Impreza coupe. AutoSpeed said that the front mount
had a lag in its performance but other than that did very well.
Alan Denver, Colorado
We are just starting to see a few EJ20 engines in the states as far
as I know. We did have one installed but the engine is out now
because of oil in the cooling system. We have the engine apart now
and
can not find the leak. I am in the process of fitting the water
cooled
IC to my engine as I read in AutoSpeed that it did work well. I do
not
have the room to mount a air to air front mount as my engine is
installed in a '95 Impreza coupe. AutoSpeed said that the front mount
had a lag in its performance but other than that did very well.
Alan Denver, Colorado
-
Gord_
Intercoolers
Has anyone ever tried to use a Volvo intercooler.
I ask this because they are much easier to come by then a Subie one, t
hey are just hardward so if i can get the plumbing done it might work???
i thibnk they should deal with air flow, the turbo volvos must draw at least
as much??
any ideas?
thank guys
Gord
91 turbo legacy sedan
I ask this because they are much easier to come by then a Subie one, t
hey are just hardward so if i can get the plumbing done it might work???
i thibnk they should deal with air flow, the turbo volvos must draw at least
as much??
any ideas?
thank guys
Gord
91 turbo legacy sedan
-
Dave aka DLC/dackampf
Intercoolers
The problems is...
US Spec Legacy turbos have NO intercoolers!
Lame huh?
US Spec Legacy turbos have NO intercoolers!
Lame huh?
-
Rod_
Intercoolers
yes, that is lame.
without an intercooler what boost pressure's are you running. my water/air
intercooler is excellent. after driving , lift the bonnet and the
intercooler is cold. much more efficient than the air/air intercoolers on a
wrx.
rod
without an intercooler what boost pressure's are you running. my water/air
intercooler is excellent. after driving , lift the bonnet and the
intercooler is cold. much more efficient than the air/air intercoolers on a
wrx.
rod
-
jason grahn
Intercoolers
not sure about a volvo innercooler, but a Saab innercooler is fairly easy to
come by and to install, barring a few easy mods. Primitive Racing
(http://www.get-primitive.com) used one for a while, but then they upgraded
for more HP. I'm sure with a little research, and looking at various
junkyard innercoolers, you could find one suitable. If not, i believe some
companies do make innercooler kits, Not sure who tho.
Speaking of junkyards.. Has anyone seen the television show "Junkyard Wars"?
TALK ABOUT A COOL SHOW! It sets teams of 4 against each other to build items
that do a certain task (cannons, flying contraptions, wrecking balls, etc.)
and they have to build these things using only items found in their
junkyard. They're only given 10 hours to do it in. Insane!
Jason
ps: apologies for the blatant advertising. =)
come by and to install, barring a few easy mods. Primitive Racing
(http://www.get-primitive.com) used one for a while, but then they upgraded
for more HP. I'm sure with a little research, and looking at various
junkyard innercoolers, you could find one suitable. If not, i believe some
companies do make innercooler kits, Not sure who tho.
Speaking of junkyards.. Has anyone seen the television show "Junkyard Wars"?
TALK ABOUT A COOL SHOW! It sets teams of 4 against each other to build items
that do a certain task (cannons, flying contraptions, wrecking balls, etc.)
and they have to build these things using only items found in their
junkyard. They're only given 10 hours to do it in. Insane!
Jason
ps: apologies for the blatant advertising. =)
-
JohnnyG
Intercoolers
If it is a BC-BF EJ20 with the air-water intercooler... they are not as
efficient as an air-air type.
John Gillon
efficient as an air-air type.
John Gillon
-
JohnnyG
Intercoolers
If all USA types use the EJ22T low-boost turbo... the temperature rise of
the intake charge probaly wouldn't justify aftercooling... until you raise
the boost with mods.
No?
John Gillon
the intake charge probaly wouldn't justify aftercooling... until you raise
the boost with mods.
No?
John Gillon
-
JohnnyG
Intercoolers
Sorry Rod,
An air-air intercooler is more efficient that an air-water type... mind you,
the over engine heat location is a bit dumb.
John Gillon
An air-air intercooler is more efficient that an air-water type... mind you,
the over engine heat location is a bit dumb.
John Gillon
-
Rod_
Intercoolers
I agree with you when it comes to very high HP engines and track work.
with std/ slight modified engines and day to day driving my water/air
intercooler is at ambient temp every time i checked it whlie my friends wrx
air/air intercooler was hot. we tested this heaps of times. on the open road
and constant air flow, no difference.
regards, rod
with std/ slight modified engines and day to day driving my water/air
intercooler is at ambient temp every time i checked it whlie my friends wrx
air/air intercooler was hot. we tested this heaps of times. on the open road
and constant air flow, no difference.
regards, rod
-
JohnnyG
Intercoolers
Agreed, air-air is superior for track work.
A comparison of air-air vs air-water by feel test, is a bit of a subjective
measurement. The below is a good summary on the theory...
http://autospeed.com/C_articles/A_0527/P_1/article.html
John Gillon
A comparison of air-air vs air-water by feel test, is a bit of a subjective
measurement. The below is a good summary on the theory...
http://autospeed.com/C_articles/A_0527/P_1/article.html
John Gillon
-
Gord_
Intercoolers
Thanks guys for the input,
perhaps my first mod will be fitting a intercooler and perhap upping the pressure
Gord
perhaps my first mod will be fitting a intercooler and perhap upping the pressure
Gord
-
Matt Scicchitano
Intercoolers
Just to throw some numbers around, I took some intake air temps at
the throttle body with and without my first gen WRX intercooler.
First off to answer John's question, the US spec Legacys ran 8.7psi
but was usually in the 7psi range. My car was set at 9psi and on a 55
degree day, I believe the temps at full boost in 3rd and 4th gear
were in the 120-130f degree range. With the intercooler, the temps
were in the low 90s, so even at close to the stock boost levels, the
intercooler did work, although 130 degrees really isn't too bad to
begin with. I have yet to check it a 12psi.
As for the top mount being in a bad spot, it really isn't as bad as
people would most likely think. Under normal off-boost driving
conditions and with a cold-air intake, the intake air temp never got
higher then 10 degrees of the ambient temperature, if that. Even
driving through town, going one block, stoping, going one block,
stoping, etc. , the temps never rose out of the 10 degree margin. And
the second the car started to move, the temps came right back down,
even at only a few miles an hour. The only time the temps began to
rise quite high was when you were sitting idling for a long duration
of time(minutes), but keep in mind, when the car is idling, air is
not moving inside the intercooler because the throttle body is shut
and air is moving through the IACV. So the air that is in the
intercooler when you begin to idle, is trapped in there and is
allowed to get heated until the throttle plate is opened again. I
still have the stock hoodscoop, but use foam around the outside edge
of the intercooler to seal it to the scoop.
Overall I like the top mounts for the very good points Bill brought
up, although I would much rather have a spearco such as Matt Jones's
on his Legacy, simply for the better flowing piping. I think the
stock WRX piping is a bit small and cramped, personally, but it's
better then nothing
-Matt
the throttle body with and without my first gen WRX intercooler.
First off to answer John's question, the US spec Legacys ran 8.7psi
but was usually in the 7psi range. My car was set at 9psi and on a 55
degree day, I believe the temps at full boost in 3rd and 4th gear
were in the 120-130f degree range. With the intercooler, the temps
were in the low 90s, so even at close to the stock boost levels, the
intercooler did work, although 130 degrees really isn't too bad to
begin with. I have yet to check it a 12psi.
As for the top mount being in a bad spot, it really isn't as bad as
people would most likely think. Under normal off-boost driving
conditions and with a cold-air intake, the intake air temp never got
higher then 10 degrees of the ambient temperature, if that. Even
driving through town, going one block, stoping, going one block,
stoping, etc. , the temps never rose out of the 10 degree margin. And
the second the car started to move, the temps came right back down,
even at only a few miles an hour. The only time the temps began to
rise quite high was when you were sitting idling for a long duration
of time(minutes), but keep in mind, when the car is idling, air is
not moving inside the intercooler because the throttle body is shut
and air is moving through the IACV. So the air that is in the
intercooler when you begin to idle, is trapped in there and is
allowed to get heated until the throttle plate is opened again. I
still have the stock hoodscoop, but use foam around the outside edge
of the intercooler to seal it to the scoop.
Overall I like the top mounts for the very good points Bill brought
up, although I would much rather have a spearco such as Matt Jones's
on his Legacy, simply for the better flowing piping. I think the
stock WRX piping is a bit small and cramped, personally, but it's
better then nothing
-Matt
-
ssspoon@aol.com
intercoolers
These messages appeared a couple of days ago
From: "dfullerton" <dfullerton@dfullerton.screaming.net>
Subject: Re: Re: intercooler install
HI guys check this out http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gavinp/airwater.htm
Well, I did check it out. Thank you Mr. Fullerton for a great web tip. That
link has great info plus links to some others with, for me, even more
valuable info. I found special value in one that details a Merkur XR4Ti
air-to-water intercooler project. The Merkur is a 2.3 liter engine the owner
has boosted to 18 psi using components much like I am considering, i.e., an
additional intercooler water reservoir and similar size water radiator. Also
there was a link to guess what? Would you believe it, an email group for
air-to-water intercoolers!
Then there was a message from Alex Croxford:
From: <acroxford@hypermall.net>
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: intercooler install
Hi Larry I e-mailed the pictures to you I am afraid that you won't be
able to see very much. I did have some answers for you. Are there any
of the 2.0L turbos available? What the elbows do is simulate the old
ducting and are pretty close.
Thank you for the pix Alex. Your info confirmed other advice that I'm SOL to
hope for reclocking my turbo to line up with the cooler inlet. I have
committed myself mentally to a turbo switch, in order to maintain the least
restrictive pathway for the charge. I do believe more 2.0 turbos are
available, but you should have much easier access to them in the UK than we
do here, the way you were just flooded with them while we starved.
Going now to try and check out that air-to-water egroup
Larry Witherspoon
From: "dfullerton" <dfullerton@dfullerton.screaming.net>
Subject: Re: Re: intercooler install
HI guys check this out http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gavinp/airwater.htm
Well, I did check it out. Thank you Mr. Fullerton for a great web tip. That
link has great info plus links to some others with, for me, even more
valuable info. I found special value in one that details a Merkur XR4Ti
air-to-water intercooler project. The Merkur is a 2.3 liter engine the owner
has boosted to 18 psi using components much like I am considering, i.e., an
additional intercooler water reservoir and similar size water radiator. Also
there was a link to guess what? Would you believe it, an email group for
air-to-water intercoolers!
Then there was a message from Alex Croxford:
From: <acroxford@hypermall.net>
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: intercooler install
Hi Larry I e-mailed the pictures to you I am afraid that you won't be
able to see very much. I did have some answers for you. Are there any
of the 2.0L turbos available? What the elbows do is simulate the old
ducting and are pretty close.
Thank you for the pix Alex. Your info confirmed other advice that I'm SOL to
hope for reclocking my turbo to line up with the cooler inlet. I have
committed myself mentally to a turbo switch, in order to maintain the least
restrictive pathway for the charge. I do believe more 2.0 turbos are
available, but you should have much easier access to them in the UK than we
do here, the way you were just flooded with them while we starved.
Going now to try and check out that air-to-water egroup
Larry Witherspoon
-
grantsubaru
Intercoolers
Anyone seen any other model of intercooler that work relatively easy
with our vehicles? I know the Saab 900 has been used as well as
every model of WRX IC. Any good places to pick these up? Thanks
Grant
with our vehicles? I know the Saab 900 has been used as well as
every model of WRX IC. Any good places to pick these up? Thanks
Grant
-
INCEv@webtv.net
Intercoolers
I have a Water to Air intercooler that will bolt on!.... I was going to
sell it later but..if you want it let me know. Dan
sell it later but..if you want it let me know. Dan
-
Z1Auto@aol.com
Intercoolers
Every model of WRX? I don't believe the new age 2002 model WRX intercooler will fit
Adam
Adam
-
Gary Grahn
Intercoolers
The 2002 Intercooler fits just fine. I'll post some pics some where in two weeks when everything else is done.
Gary Grahn
Gary Grahn
-
Z1Auto@aol.com
Intercoolers
cool! I have a customer whose car is coming in in about a week to do the Turbo XS top mount upgrade, etc., so I gues I'll snatch his 2002 unit.
Any rough idea as to what I need to fabricate, or what parts (intercooler hoses, blow off valve, etc.) I need?
Just so I make sure everything is in stock when we do it
Thanks again
Adam
Any rough idea as to what I need to fabricate, or what parts (intercooler hoses, blow off valve, etc.) I need?
Just so I make sure everything is in stock when we do it
Thanks again
Adam
-
Todd Munson
Intercoolers
Cool, I'd definitely like some more info on this as I've got one on its
way to me. Did you have to modify your hood scoop at all. Also
details on hoses would be much appreciated.
-T
way to me. Did you have to modify your hood scoop at all. Also
details on hoses would be much appreciated.
-T
-
Gary Grahn
Intercoolers
All the pipes we are using are factory. We need to relocate a few things (more then just the coil), other then that, its pretty strait forward.
Gary Grahn
Gary Grahn