New to me EJ22T

[MNLancaster]

Hey everyone,

I'm brand new on this forum (just a couple days) and have a few questions about my 22T. I figure you guys know more about this engine than everyone on the Outback forums, where I spend a lot of my time. But anyways, I recently picked up a 22T swapped 98 Outback from a friend to swap it into my 2000 Outback 5MT. It's already mated to a WRX 5 speed in the 1998, and has a TD04, FXT TMIC and new CAI.

The engine has about 85k on it so it definitely has low miles. I haven't done anything to it yet, but it was built using 22E intake and fuel management and is running OBD2 with the Outback ECU. Included in the deal are all of the spare parts from the 22T- turbo set up, another downpipe, turbo injectors (390's) and a bunch of other goodies. I'm currently at 7-8psi and probably maxing out those stock injectors. Everything about the car feels great so I think it'll be a great candidate for the swap

I'm new to the whole Turbo game, but what do I have to do to be able to use those turbo injectors? Can the Outback ECU handle them? Or should I try and find a Turbo ECU? I heard from another friend that the stock ECU's aren't tunable on these motors, but don't know if that's true

If anyone could help me out with clearing some of this up, it would be greatly appreciated!

And since everyone likes looking at pictures...

[Legacy777]

So is this a complete EJ22t motor or a little bit of a frankenmotor with EJ22t long block and EJ22 non-turbo parts elsewhere?

There are a couple different paths, but it depends on what exactly you're starting with. There are methods that "work", but don't provide the best drivability, performance, or safety but work. On the opposite side of the spectrum you have a stand alone that provides all the functionality, performance, etc. but is a lot more complex and costly. So it would be helpful to understand your budget as well.

[MNLancaster]

So is this a complete EJ22t motor or a little bit of a frankenmotor with EJ22t long block and EJ22 non-turbo parts elsewhere?

It would be helpful to understand your budget as well.

It's a complete 22T. The only aspects that are non turbo, are the 22e intake and outback ecu as far as I know. I also have a EJ252 SOHC from my 2nd Gen Outback that developed rod knock that I could use some parts from to turn it in to a bit of a frankenmotor. However, I'll most likely be rebuilding that 252 with a complete 251 shortblock (minus 1 piston) that a buddy will give me for free

I've heard of people going with WRX heads, but my buddy the PO who did the original swap, says not to do that until I get a new ecu. With a little more research, I found that some people will take their 22T and put WRX heads, intake, and ecu in.

As for budget, I'm a college student so my upgrade schedule is kind of just when I have a little extra money, I throw it at my car. So budget build would be optimal, but I'm not opposed to spending a little extra $$$

Also I'm not looking to build a racecar, I'd even be happy staying around the 190-200hp mark that I'm at right now as it has enough power to be fun for me

[Alphius]

OK, here is some basic info for you, just some stuff off the top of my head that you should know.

You're not making 200hp right now. The 22t in stock form at 9psi is 160hp. You're likely making a little less than that.

None of the ECUs you have in either car are tuneable.

You can't use the turbo injectors. (I mean, you can but it'll run terribly rich)

The 22t ECU can't be used in either car as it's OBD1 and uses a different harness and sensors on the intake. This is why the swapper used the 22e OBD2 intake on the 98 with the stock ECU. Not optimal.

The Phase2 engine/intake electronics in your 00 Outback will physically not bolt on the 22t engine, and the Phase1 22e intake and electronics in the 98 aren't compatible with your 00's harness and ECU.

You've basically got parts from three "generations" of Subaru engine here and making them work together will be challenging.
Phase1 OBD1
Phase1 OBD2
Phase2 OBD2
Intake manifolds are generally specific to Phase1/2 and DOHC/SOHC. The electronics on the intake manifold are generally compatible only within each generation.

Here's your options as I see it without spending a ton of money:
-Harness merge and ECU swap to 22t parts. This is difficult and you lose OBD2 so cannot pass inspection in places that require it. You can then use ej20g ECUs for a simple upgrade.
-Fabri-cobble the turbo parts onto the ej25 engine in the 00, potentially using the 22t shortblock. Have to fab turbo feed and drain, plus a few other things. Still OBD2. Not really upgradeable beyond the 180-190hp-ish area.
-Put the complete 22t in the 00 and fab up adapter plates to use the Phase2 electronics on the 22e intake manifold. No oil feed/drain issues, but still not upgradeable.
-Use 02+ WRX heads, intake, harness merge and ECU. 22t block. Fully tuneable, passes OBD2 scans, but it's expensive.

Final option: sell both cars and buy a cheap Gen2 H6 Outback. 212hp and very reliable.

[MNLancaster]

When you say adapter plates, do you mean something like this?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1039566

Also, last night I was digging through a lot of forums and found someone who, coincidentally lives in the same city as me, and they have merged a lot harnesses I guess. So maybe I'll shoot him a message

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[Alphius]

Those sort of adapter plates could work, I've never measured up to see if the port spacing is close enough on the P1-P2 SOHC. That plate in the thread is for P2 longblock under a P1 DOHC manifold. I was referring to mounting the P2 IAC and throttle body to the P1 intake.

Wiring merge with WRX heads, intake, harness and ECU is an excellent path. I did that in my 99 Legacy, it looks exactly like a WRX under the hood.

[Pntaste4evr99]

Fabri-cobble?? Lol Subaru technical speech.

[Legacy777]

I'll echo what Gabe (Alphius) has said about having parts from different generations. You can make them work, however I don't care what anyone says you will run into hurdles along the way that will cost you more than what you expected and take more time as well.

You may not want to hear this, but I suggest you do a little soul searching and ask yourself "What do I want?" Do you want a reliable car, performance, do you want to put a bunch of time into it, or are you looking more at the final product and something you can drive and enjoy.

I've had my Legacy for 21 years and I can say there are times I really want to work on it and there are other times where I just want to drive it. There's been times where it just sat in the garage for a couple months during a swap or mid-project because I didn't have time or the desire to work on it.

I'm not sure what your going to college for, but when I was in college I didn't really have the time or money to be doing anything major to the Legacy. It got some small stuff like anti-sway bars and brake upgrades, but nothing major. If you are relying on one or both of these cars to provide you a means of reliable transportation you need to keep that in the back of your mind. There's nothing worse than planning to work on the car over the weekend and having to rush to get it back together by Monday.

Please know that we're not trying to burst your bubble but just want to ensure you are informed so you can make the decision that's right for you. A lot of the feedback you'll get are from people that have gone down these paths before and learned from their successes as well as failures.

[MNLancaster]

Don't worry, you guys haven't taken the wind out of my sails! Lol

I actually appreciate you guys telling me everything that's wrong with this setup. Because it helps me get a better idea of what I need to do to make my car a happy Subaru!

For now at least, I have a running and driving 22T that makes turbo sounds. That's the important part. Might not be running optimally, but thanks to the help and advice of all of you, soon she will be running smooth

I have a friend who has a Bugeye WRX that he has been taking his sweet old time working on the engine. It's taken so long, that I don't even remember what the issue was haha. But I have brought up the idea of him getting rid of some of his engine electricals since it's dragging on and on. He's tempted

If you guys have any other advice, feel free to drop some knowledge here!

Also, Gabe, you wanna drop a pic of your engine bay? I'd love to see it!

[Alphius]

Here's the car:


Here's the engine bay:

[MNLancaster]

Here's the car:


Here's the engine bay:

That's beautiful!

I had a friend come to town two weekends ago and I told him he had to drive my car with the 22T in it. He has a 2nd Gen LGT too in Spruce pearl, 25D auto. When he drove my car he instantly fell in love with it. So much so, that he has already bought his own 22T. Also with a TD04 and FXT top mount. He also picked up a 5 speed as well.

Here's his LGT

[Alphius]

The 22t is a good engine. I actually have an EJ22e bottom end under 2005 WRX heads and intake, with 18psi through a TD04 and an STI DCCD 6-speed. Well, used to have the 6-speed, I am selling the car so I put a 5-speed back in it. I have a soft spot for second gen Legacys, but I acquired the 2005 5-speed turbo wagon and can't keep two Subarus; the wife would not approve. Haha.

[MNLancaster]

Alright, so a little update

Found out the other day that I am able to get the 22T harness, intake, and ecu that belong to the 22T I have. If I replace odd bits on mine, would my body harness still connect to the 22T ecu? Or would I need to run a piggyback? 2000 outback ecu controlling the body functions and then the 22T ecu running the engine.or how can I make this work?

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[Alphius]

-Harness merge and ECU swap to 22t parts. This is difficult and you lose OBD2 so cannot pass inspection in places that require it. You can then use ej20g ECUs for a simple upgrade.

This is what you'd be doing to make that option work. Definitely not optimal, but it would be doable.

[MNLancaster]

-Harness merge and ECU swap to 22t parts. This is difficult and you lose OBD2 so cannot pass inspection in places that require it. You can then use ej20g ECUs for a simple upgrade.

This is what you'd be doing to make that option work. Definitely not optimal, but it would be doable.

Okay. It's not a big deal if I lose obd2 as I don't need to pass inspection. Thank goodness for living in MN.

For the merge, which harnesses should I be merging?

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[Alphius]

You'll take the body harness for the outback, strip the EJ25 engine wiring out of it, then take the EJ22T body harness and strip all the body wiring out of the engine wiring. Then, combine the EJ22T engine wiring into the Outback body wiring, making the necessary interconnections between the two. You'll want the factory service manuals for both cars.

[MNLancaster]

And then repin the connections?

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[Alphius]

No repinning. This is a cut and solder job transplanting the entire engine control section of the harness.

[Legacy777]

I don't recommend solder connections if you do this. Use mechanical crimp connections with a good crimping tool.

[MNLancaster]

No repinning. This is a cut and solder job transplanting the entire engine control section of the harness.

I don't recommend solder connections if you do this. Use mechanical crimp connections with a good crimping tool.

Aright so 22T engine harness, 22T ecu, 2000 outback body harness- Right?

And for the crimping connectors, do you mean something like these butt connectors?


Also, I have been reviewing my FSM's for both the 2000 OBW and the 22T. I'm feeling a lot better about doing this merge now that I know I have something I can reference. Alphius, are you able to send me some pictures of your merged harness if you have them? And for your setup it's the wrx harness, wrx ecu, and 2nd Gen LGT body harness?

Thanks guys for helping me with all of this

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[Alphius]

I've never had a problem with solder connections, but I do proper mechanically strong lineman's splices with a dab of solder to hold it together and covered in weatherproof heatshrink. If I had no solder at all, the connections would still hold just fine. The worry when using solder is that the vibration over time will crack it and the connection will fail and pull apart. With a lineman's splice under the solder, this is less of an issue, although I also have yet to notice any cracking solder after 5+ years on many connections I've done this way. I choose to take the risk because it looks much nicer than crimp connections and I've never had a single issue.

See this thread on SL-i for an overview of my project along with a few pictures. There's also a link in there to a Google Docs spreadsheet of most of the wires needing to be merged on my swap, minus power and grounds.
http://sl-i.net/FORUM/showthread.php?18 ... speed-swap

[Legacy777]

My preference is non-insulated butt connectors as they are much smaller and can be spaced out so your wiring harness doesn't have a huge bulge. I cover the butt connectors with weather/water proof heatshrink and then put wiring loom and electrical tape over that.

[MNLancaster]

Alright so I've been doing a lot of research into 2.2/2.5 hybrid builds. There are quite a few people how have done them using the Phase 2 SOHC (my engine). The 2.5 heads bolt up (different bores, but Cometic makes HGs designed specifically for this situation), my 2.5 intake would attach to the 2.5 heads (obviously), but that would allow me to use my existing harness and not have to rip apart my dash for the front harness

Then finally, the right side 2.2T cylinder head has 3 holes for the turbo oil supply, oil return, and coolant return. Also a right side camshaft support exists in the 2.2T turbo engine in order to supply oil to the turbo and return coolant from the turbo. Guess what's not on the 2.5 head. Right, it could be made to work though. There's an oil plug on top of the block towards the back, and I could tap into the heater hoses or something for the coolant return, and the heads still bolt right on.

Does that all sound fine and dandy to you guys?

[Legacy777]

Did you ever get this sorted out or are you still looking for feedback on the oil feed?

[MNLancaster]

Did you ever get this sorted out or are you still looking for feedback on the oil feed?

I did figure it out!

Remember my friend who said he loved how the 22t felt and then bought one? Well, he has more time than I do to work on it, so he has already finished. I got the idea I posted above from him. He is doing the same thing as me. However, he's using the 25D heads, intake, and harness that came native to his 2.5GT. So it's DOHC versus my setup which will obviously be SOHC due to my 252 heads

Here's his motor



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