how do you get the timing belt on? TOO TIGHT.

[jp233]

OK, I'm losing my mind. A new timing belt is simply too tight to be installed, even with the tensioner opened all the way up.

I've got Mitsuboshi CD172 belts (2 of them, and I assume that means they are 172 teeth?) and both of them are impossible to install. I can get all the marks lined up, but I cannot get the belt routed over all the bottom idlers/etc.

After looking around, some say to use an idler pulley to install last (I almost tried, but it really seemed too hard). Then others said to use the sprocket idler near the water pump. Well, after trying that and it seemed close, I've now begun to strip the threads on the sprocket idler in the water pump. So, I may have to throw away a brand new perfectly good water pump, all because of this $H!T.

I'm ready to just set fire to both these cars and push them into a lake. I'd have more fun that way.

Tips? Tricks? how do the people that actually know what they're doing, install T-belts ???

[Deride]

I usually leave the idler pulley from the lower passenger side off when I install the belt.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg24 ... iagram.gif

Be careful not to cross thread the bolt when you slide the idler back on.

[nosyt]

have always removed the lower smooth idler on the passenger head lined everything up then pushed the belt and idler into place and tightened the bolt

[Legacy777]

Yeah I agree with both Deride & nosyt, that bottom idler on the passenger side is the easiest to get on after the fact. Using clamps to hold the belts on the cam pullies help keep everything in proper alignment.

I guess my question would be is the new belt and old belt pretty much the same size? Have you counted the teeth between marks to ensure they're correct? Use this scan as reference.

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... _belt3.jpg

[MConte05]

OK, I'm losing my mind. A new timing belt is simply too tight to be installed, even with the tensioner opened all the way up.

Does this mean you already let the pin out of the tensioner? Or... what? The tensioner needs to be in the full closed position with a pin holding it there. Once the T-belt is on, you pull the pin....

But the fastest way I've seen it done by a guy who put a timing belt on my car in 30 seconds at a rally service was first lining up the cranks and the pulleys with their respective marks. Set the t-belt on the center one, then lined up the outers, then pulled the belt around all the idlers. Finally using the beveled edge of the water pump pulley to slip the belt on. I was blown away.

[rallyak]

You leave the pin in tell the belt is on and you double check that all the marks line up (do not use the arrows on cam sprockets as the marks) or it won't run and you will have to start over.

I also noticed that no body mentioned that the tensioner where it mounts to the block is slotted a little, you could leave those loose to give you a little more clearance to get the lower idler pulley on. After every thing is lined up pry the tensioner toward the belt and tighten bolts and then pull the pin.

[Alphius]

OK, I'm losing my mind. A new timing belt is simply too tight to be installed, even with the tensioner opened all the way up.

Does this mean you already let the pin out of the tensioner? Or... what? The tensioner needs to be in the full closed position with a pin holding it there. Once the T-belt is on, you pull the pin....

But the fastest way I've seen it done by a guy who put a timing belt on my car in 30 seconds at a rally service was first lining up the cranks and the pulleys with their respective marks. Set the t-belt on the center one, then lined up the outers, then pulled the belt around all the idlers. Finally using the beveled edge of the water pump pulley to slip the belt on. I was blown away.

This is how I do it too. I think once I couldn't slip it over the WP pulley and had to use the lower passenger side pulley to bolt it up, but I don't like doing that since it's pretty easy to strip the threads that way.

[Legacy777]

I also noticed that no body mentioned that the tensioner where it mounts to the block is slotted a little, you could leave those loose to give you a little more clearance to get the lower idler pulley on. After every thing is lined up pry the tensioner toward the belt and tighten bolts and then pull the pin.

This is a very good point. I too don't tighten the tensioner all the way until the belt is completely on. Then use a big screwdriver to pry the tensioner all the way to the left. I think the FSM mentions that.

[jp233]

The belt has marks on it, correctly marking the crank and the 44/40.5 teeth.

The tensioner itself is finger tight and slid all the way to the right, and still pinned. What I meant is that the tensioner idler is rotated all the way it can go, on the loose side.

Yeah, the lower passenger idler pulley seemed the best to put on last, but I tried to pull it up against belt tension and it still didn't want to line up - not even close and I knew if I tried that I'd strip the threads. I didn't want to pry on anything, belt or pulley surface, either. I really thought that prying the belt on over that pulley may be my last resort, other than having to get some mechanic to come over to my house.

The water pump sprocket seemed good since I could lodge it in the belt teeth grooves, and push against it pretty hard by hand. It got close, but clearly not close enough and in half a second, the first thread or two got destroyed. I'm going to try to carefully just drill those out and hopefully not have to replace the pump.

I'll give it one more go using the lower passenger idler, and probably get another set of hands to help me. If that doesn't work, I'll have to pay someone to do this (which is F'ing ridiculous). I'm out of time on these engines and have to get them done pronto.

[Alphius]

If I was in the area I would help out.

Don't use the bolt of the toothed pulley on the WP to pull it on, I've almost always had the best luck by having all the pulleys attached and slipping the belt over the actual smooth WP pulley. Sometimes it takes a little working at it, but it will eventually go, rarely I use a small flat screwdriver to help pull the belt up and slip it onto the pulley with my hand. I also turn the driver side cam a tiny bit just to take all the slack out from between the pulleys, which gives you a tiny bit more slack on the WP and lets you slip it on.

[ciper]

I just did my timing belt two a couple days ago and was able to install it with all the pulleys installed.

My "Tricks" are as follows -
Mark the starting point of the belt then count the appropriate number of teeth to both sides. Leave the two 12mm bolts holding the tensioner loose. Put the belt on the crank and two cam pulleys. Use small locking pliers (vice grips) to hold the belt in place and then with a wrench or socket rotate the drivers cam tightly (clockwise) away from the crank and the passenger came tightly (counterclockwise) away from the crank. This will give you LOTS of slack on the bottom.

BTW you had better not be using those timing marks on the plastic cover or I'm going to slap you around a bit with a large trout

[Alphius]

I think the key as ciper and I pointed out is to rotate the cams to pull all of the slack out between the pulleys. Also leaving the tensioner bolts a little loose helps. That should give you plenty of slack to pull it on over the smooth WP pulley.

[ciper]

I should add that once you have the belt and pulleys all installed and BEFORE you pull the grenade pin or tighten the tensioner bolts use a prybar to force the tensioner all the way towards the crank. While holding it in that position tighten the bolts then finally release the pin.

[jp233]

My tensioner is all the way to the right (old style tensioner), it is touching the bracket, it's as far as it will go. I'm seriously not worried about the tensioner, that is cake compared to getting this belt on. CAKE!

Good luck: I carefully drilled out the first 2 or 3 threads that had stripped, and I got the WP sprocket bolt to go back in OK.


Bad luck: I've tried everything. The belt just won't go. It gets very, very close when I have both cams clamped, the slack taken up on the drivers side cam, and I barely slip the teeth of the belt onto the WP sprocket. There is not an ounce of slack anywhere else in the belt. But I still can't get the belt over the WP pulley. I even tried prying on it using a small flat-head and no dice, and it was starting to put marks onto the WP pulley surface edge.

ciper - what do you mean about *NOT* using the tick marks on the plastic covers? I thought you were supposed to use those to match up the cams. My cam wheels had white paint marks from the last belt, they line up perfectly with the tick marks and I can use the lines on the belt --- it all lines up. (And, this is right where I aligned the passenger cam wheel to set #1 at TDC where it was building compression).

Or is it just "12 o'clock" on the cam wheels (which isn't even as scientific). The drivers side tick mark does look a little left of 12 o'clock but the passenger side is straight up.

More frustrated than ever, I hate 4 strokes.

[ciper]

Sanity check - Are both cams lightly clamped with vice grip and you took up the slack on both cams going in opposite direction (tightening cylinder 2/4, loosening cylinder 1/3)? Is the pin still fully inserted on the tensioner (including the hole you cannot see) and the bolts are loose enough for it to slide around?

The notches on the plastic cover and oil pump are nonsense. Don't even look at them. Just use the belt markings and if it has none make your own. Too many bench racers and forum pricks will try to tell you otherwise. Counting teeth is more precise and faster since you don't have to worry about lining up the crank sprocket with the oil pump. My crank sprocket was crooked, about two teeth past, and I threw the belt on just fine.

Notice in the picture how one side stops on a valley while the other stops on a ridge. Leaving the two lowest pulleys removed during installation can help with the clamping step.
2.2 liter SOHC
Z1: 44 teeth
Z2: 40.5 teeth

2.5 liter SOHC
Z1: 46.8
Z2: 43.7 teeth

[Legacy777]

The notches on the cam covers and mark on the oil pump aren't necessarily nonsense, but should be used as a check. Counting the teeth or going by the marks on the belt is far better.

When doing the timing belt you could care less about TDC. Just align the belt to the marks on the cam pullies & crank gear, that's it.

Also, instead of vice grips, I'd suggest something like these spring or bar clamps. They'll have less of a chance in damaging the belt.





I also would suggest you consider the possibility that the belt you have is too small. It may say it fits the motor, but if it's not a Subaru belt.....they might have gotten it wrong.

[jp233]

*sigh*

Yes, the tensioner is still pinned! It has nothing to do with it.

I counted the teeth on the belt, to ensure that the markings that came on the belt are correct. They are. Non-issue. 44 and 40.5 teeth, it is correct.

I used TDC on the #1 because the crank and both cam wheels have turned since the old belt was taken off.

Clamps are not an issue. I am using suitable clamps.

Lining things up is not an issue. It is simply getting the damn belt on all the damn pulleys.

I give up, so I'm going to have someone else try this. I just checked the belt length versus a used belt, and they are the same length. Now, one would think a used belt with anywhere from 70-90K on it, would be stretched out just a bit right? Well, the new belt is the same length, so one would think that it would be easy and possible to install. To hell with this.

[Legacy777]

The belts are designed not to stretch, they just break.

Sorry to hear you haven't had any luck getting the belt on. If someone else does it, I'd be curious what secret they do to get it on.

[jp233]

Well, miracles do occur. I talked to a mechanic and he suggested leaving out the tensioner completely if all else fails. I thought there was no way that it could go back in once the belt was on which is why i hadn't tried it before, considering I had it loosened and it was all the way to the right with the butt end of the tensioner firmly against the block. Well, it worked.... the belt was still not easy to go on (I definitely still had to use all the slack on the passenger cam by turning it - this also helped with getting the tensioner back in), and getting the tensioner back in there properly with the ram of the tensioner settled against the tensioner pulley casting that it pushes on. This all would be even more b!tchy if the engine were in the car, albeit it would be stable I guess for when I was rotating the cam against the crank to make slack. It surely seemed more like a 3-handed job.

[Apex3]

Like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQhfcdQf1QA

[gfbrant]

I can sympathize with your pain on the timing belt, I was having the same problem - the new belt was just too tight to go on, or to get enough slack to install the tensioner or an idler after it was over the cams. I read everything on this post and tried everything to no avail. Then, I came up with my own solution, It was cool outside in the garage where I was working (50's), so I reasoned that a cold belt would be smaller and less pliable. So, I put the oven in the kitchen on low - about 170 degF - then put the belt on a sheet tray and put it in the oven for 10-15 minutes. This expanded the length of the belt slightly and also made the belt much more pliable. I pulled it out and quickly put it over the crank sprocket and clamped it. Next I threaded it over the cams aligning the timing marks with the marks on the new belt. I had left off the sprocket idler by the water pump and also the bottom idler on the passenger side. Now I installed the water pump sprocket idler - it just made it - and then installed the remaining idler. Done. I hope this helps someone else having this nightmare.

[free5ty1e]

Thats a good idea.