i dont think we drive "spic" mobiles?

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:16 pm

I don't think it's necesarily PC to be careful not to offend anyone on the board, it's just curteous. For example, if there was a latino member of the board I think it can be safely said that it's highly possible that person could be offended by some of the content of this thread. Obviously, you don't have to give a rat's ass but that's what separates a jerk from someone who tries to be curteous to others. I'm not calling anyone in particular a jerk, I'm just saying that it doesn't hurt to be conscious of other's feelings, even if they may not be listening. Insulting hippies isn't cool either. I know that some may be ridiculously unkempt but they're not all bad.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:29 pm

Nothing a good scrub, shower, and debugging wouldn't fix and at least they won't vote for W.

Steve

tris91ricer · Post by **tris91ricer** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:25 am

geez guys.. when did we turn into goddamn oprah? we gotta be concious of everyone's tiniest feelings? Yes, doug, we can be respectful of the fact that you probably don't like to see those words in print, let alone heard out loud. some folks just really don't like negative speech --no matter what the form. However, the use of 'spic' in this thread was simply necessary to give relavance to the topic. Someone wanted a question answered, wanted to get our opinions, and see what a consensus was. I'm sorry if you were offended personally. sometimes we just have to censor our own eyes for our own mental safety and peace of mind, just cause it prevents aneurisms.. (sp?)
nevertheless, i HAVE seen a couple (make that two, to be exact) black folks driving an early legacy like ours.. its not uncommon, but its not as up-and-coming as most 'in' african americans would like to appear. Sorry, their cultural standards are just a step above ours (whites).. imagine for a minute one day where calling someone 'whitey' is akin to insulting their life outlook and work ethic. Believe me, I'd do it. How many times have you seen a minority on the corner with a sign? I can't say that i've seen too many black guys, hispanic guys, or even indian guys on the corner with a cardboard scrawled sign asking for shit. Only in America, and Only for White Guys. Veteran this, Recovering Alkie that.. I call BS. fuckin' whitey don't wanna work!
ooh, i went 'off the hook".. dizzamn.

nonetheless, we don't drive 'spic' cars.. Phil seems to have a good handle on the idea that our cars sold well to many demo groups, but were heavily marketed in only one target area: Homosexuals.. I think we have a thread about it around here somewhere... Can we shift this thread to focus on Lesbians and Subaru?

91White-T · Post by **91White-T** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:52 pm

i see lots of foresters and outbacks with the rainbow sticker

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:25 pm

Subarus are extremely popular with lesbians. My sister has a 2001 Outback and her special friend wants a WRX (having a job and not loving off my sister would help first).

Steve

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:50 pm

Sorry, their cultural standards are just a step above ours (whites).. imagine for a minute one day where calling someone 'whitey' is akin to insulting their life outlook and work ethic. Believe me, I'd do it. How many times have you seen a minority on the corner with a sign? I can't say that i've seen too many black guys, hispanic guys, or even indian guys on the corner with a cardboard scrawled sign asking for shit. Only in America, and Only for White Guys. Veteran this, Recovering Alkie that.. I call BS. fuckin' whitey don't wanna work!
ooh, i went 'off the hook".. dizzamn.

What the hell are you talking about? What, you're using some vaccuous assertion to put some vague idea about white inferiority and laziness forth, like whites have some monopoly on laziness. Give me a break. In my mind all peoples have lazy members. I have no idea what you're trying to say anyway. Only white guys use signs asking for work? I don't know where you live but I see plenty of "minorities" who are down and out. What's this new 'idea' you're putting out there, inverse political correctness.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:29 pm

Scott - I was thinking of saying about the same thing. This white guilt thing bothers me. I'm certainly not a white supremacist, I'm part 'Indian' and we know how that went at the hands of white people, but what's the difference? Look what the Spanish did, too. Hell, people still talk about reparations for slavery or Indian genocide, but I say move the hell on! I owe nothing to any group - my Indian great-great grandmother's Ojibwe relatives were only ancestors of mine that were here back then. I'm not ashamed of being white, I'm ashamed of being a human. Frank Zappa said it best, "People are people and they are basically bad." That's why it makes me feel better to think of two evolutionary lines of human and I blame the monkey-line for most of the problems (us whale people have done some stupid shit, too, but more by blind enthusiasm IMO than evil intentions).

Reparations from big corporations and families, like DuPont and the Rockefellers, for what they've done to people and, more importantly, the environment would be an issue I'd possibly support, but to blame a whole race for something is the same thing no matter what color the blamee and the blamer are.

Steve

tris91ricer · Post by **tris91ricer** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:19 pm

I think it might have been relevant that I informed you I would be playing devil's advocate. You guys really have some..

91legacy_sleeper wrote:..imagine for a minute...

imagination. Thanks. But I do concur with you that applying an undue trait to an entire group of people, granted inalienable rights as individuals, all on the misinterpretation of one member of said group, is unfair in all circumstances. Why, I belong to plenty of groups that... I just realized that continuing this thread seems pointless, as the majority of us never fully agree on our prejudices, which sucks. I love it when everyone can get along, or at least try. Let's float denial!
But then again, I'm used to offending someone, if not everyone, everytime i open my mouth.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:28 pm

I hate these discussions because I'm the race and such that is prejudiced by default. I'm white, straight, and from a pretty well-off family. So everytime I make a comment about black or Hispanic people, bash on queers, or yell at bums to get a job, I get the book thrown at me. I'll be labeled racist or prejudiced or stuck up or something like that. BUT... if a black guy says every derogatory statement in the book about a white guy, that's perfectly permissible.

I am very much against racism, I think everyone here is. But this country as a whole needs a big reminder on just what racism is and moreso, who can be guilty of racism.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:28 pm

I'm just sick of supposedly being guilty by default. It also pisses me off that I pretty much have a choice of white on applications when I don't think of myself as white per se. I'm part German, part Cherokee, part Irish, and part Anglo. Every people has been enslaved at one point or another by either a people with different color skin or one with the same color skin.

To me, history is more about class struggle and wealth than skin color. The African slave traders made no bones about selling their African cousins. The English made no bones about opressing the Scots. The Romans made no bones about enslaving just about every European culture and so on and so on. It's my opinion that the ones at the top of the pile, "old money", fosters divisions within the lower classes so that we never wise up and kill their asses. Think about it, who has the most to gain from poor blacks, whites, and other groups struggling with each other. Ummm, the ones that rely on their labor to produce the products that they make and sell back to us, duh. As long as the distrust festers and misinformation rules the story will always be the same. The truth is there is only one race of humans on this planet, human beings, and all the crap about black vs white vs red vs yellow is a shadow of the puppet master's strings.

To "them" we're consumers and markets, not people with passions and a yearning to live and die free. They create the rules and shackles (law, religion) and we happily wear them becuase we're sucking at the teat of their dominance through the system that has created our dependency on them and we know no other way. The land, which is the source of life, is 'owned' by a relative few who zealously guard it for their own purposes. The government enforces this and taxes it to further create the illusion of ownership of it. It goes layers and layers deeper and gets more and more complex through strata of buerocracy and traditioin designed to confuse and obfuscate the truth which is that all people were created equal and free. They won't let you join their clubs. They won't let you have a choice. You don't have to screw others over to survive. That's why I'm opposed to war. It's an exercise in market transformation and economic dominance these days, ie oil. Back in the 17th century, the indians were the terrorists. They stood in the way of manisfest destiny, consumerism, and the accquistion of wealth. Now they're arab and standing in the way of consumerism, the new world order, and the accquistion of the last great source of wealth left in the world. Religion is the smoke that hides the mirror.

I'll apologize in advance for my radical streak, sorry.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:32 pm

Amen, brother. Viva la evolucion!

Steve

tris91ricer · Post by **tris91ricer** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:55 am

very thought provoking. are you in MENSA? very deep and intelligent..

-=tris

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:17 pm

Sorry, I was all in a twist when I wrote that. No, I'm not in MENSA. If that was sarcasm, it was a good shot. Hats off.

tris91ricer · Post by **tris91ricer** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:10 pm

No, i meant that sincerely. One board member to another; I respect your well-read and well-said opinions. I'm no idiot, (even if you guys would do more than beg to differ) but you make me feel kinda stupid.. wow. Good show. Yes, twist it may be, but i'd think of it more in terms of unraveling; you've got a good grasp on untangling our nation's predispositions.

I respect that you are very intelligent and have something worthwhile to post nearly everytime you hit the keys.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:42 pm

Thanks sleeper, I thought you were ribbing me a little there. I appreciate your opinion of my posts, even if they aren't always subbie related. I hope that none of it sounds haughty or snobbish. I just love talking about the things nobody wants to talk about.

I don't think you're an idiot at all. I like a lively debate from time to time and I saw these posts as an opportunity to maybe spark one. Most people shy away from talking about this stuff but you've thrown your hat right in there. I'm just trying to voice my belief that we are in this game alone and that no matter who sits in the white house, we are going to get the brunt of bad decisions (or is it deliberate plots?) that go back hundreds, and possibly over a thousand, years. I've made it a point to read all of the crazy, fringe ideas out there as well as the more "reasonable" ones. So most of what I am saying was learned through all of that reading. I'm a bit of a radical so it puts a lot of people off sometimes. I have even more "interesting" ideas than the ones I posted earlier but I tend to shy away from stating them so people won't think (realize, lol) I'm that much on the fringe.

tris91ricer · Post by **tris91ricer** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:26 pm

that's fine with me.. see? we get along after all! Inverse PC and radical ideas always marry.

I'd like to think that all humans have a rather radical side until you achieve your dreams.. but then again, after that, you become republican. A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged. and then of course, as Churchill put it best: If you are not liberal when you are young, then you have no heart; if you are not conservative in your age, then you have no brain. But i hope that one day i'll keep my radical ideas and maybe be real with america. like i tell people: I'm not voting unless I'm on the ballot.

creel wrote:I just love talking about the things no one wants to talk about

Here, here! You wouldn't believe the places I've thrown my hat into... boy, what a fun, fun, journey to the principal's office..

tris91ricer · Post by **tris91ricer** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:27 pm

Oh, and by the way, yes, yes I DO post alot Yes! another title!

tris91ricer · Post by **tris91ricer** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:29 pm

creel wrote:I've made it a point to read all of the crazy, fringe ideas out there as well as the more "reasonable" ones.

you might like..
www.cryptome.org
one of my favorite, when i'm feeling a bit like Art Bell..

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:22 am

evolutionmovement wrote:Subarus are extremely popular with lesbians. My sister has a 2001 Outback and her special friend wants a WRX (having a job and not loving off my sister would help first).

Steve

Back to basics real quick...

I heard a story from a guy who was considering an Outback 2.5XT.

"I read up on the Outback 2.5XT and was stoked about it! I wanted to trade in my 330ci and pick one up. Rave reviews and research in hand, I went to the Subaru dealership. I walked through the doors, stopped, and then realized. I'm not a Lesbian."

tris91ricer · Post by **tris91ricer** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:51 am

yeah, but if he's not gay, isn't it the same thing??
All jokes aside, I think I'd run my dealership(if i had one) pretty selectively, like, I'd interview people who want to buy a Subaru from me. Almost like an adoption agency, I'd say. If they were too much of a douchebag, I don't think I'd want them reppin' my cars.. There's a kind of loyalty, and owner pride in Subaru owners that, at least for me, extends to other people's Subaru's as well.. I still put bbs.legacycentral.org sticky notes on people's cars, inviting them here.. but some people just don't rave over the cars the way we do.
Why, I just stopped and talked with a guy near my work that drives a 93 SS, (Silver one we need for our logo, in fact) and he wasn't the least psyched about his car.
------------------------------------------
"Yeah.. it's got a turbo in there..I don't really care for it, though"
"Dude, really? You don't marvel over the AWD??"
"Ah, that? nah.. it's nothing special, really."
----and that's how it went-------
Ridiculous. You can keep your 330CI, you prick. Take it back to the dealer for a trade-in if you can't appreciate the mindset/mentality that is a true Subaru driver.
Sorry, I get heated about that; I hate when things I love become the latest fad and people have to bastardize them.
My newest example of this one is The Polar Express. Anyone ever have some happy memories of watching it on filmstrip in a dark classroom on the last day before Christmas Break? Or having it read to you by some ultra-hot librarian? (ok, she wasn't ultra-hot, but still.. sexy librarian? hello? who says no to that?? She even drives a scooby.)
Those make for some good memories, and then to have it made into some "motion picture" where they have to add shit to make it interesting to the masses is just a betrayal.

Kinda like that AWD is the new fad; anyone hear the commercials for the new Acura RL? Got some fancy-shmancy AWD system that's, from what I understand, a hybrid of the VW 4-Motion and some kind of ugraded center diff. Yeah, treat us all as if AWD is something new to everyone.
Wow.. corner like you've never been able to before? Oh yeah, cause you're used to driving a Honda! Or, if you're that prick in the bimmer, you gotta spring for a Dinan Kit and some headlight eyebrows, and call it even. Make mine extra-hairy, Scotty.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:09 am

sorry about the whole inverse PC thing sleeper.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:38 pm

I can agree with you on that 91legacy_sleeper. If I had a dealership, and a 16-year-old kid dragged his parents in there to buy him a new STi, I wouldn't even give them the time of day. I wouldn't let a perfectly good STi go to waste, and I would tell the kid to start out with an old used car first so he can learn how to drive first.

Likewise, I wouldn't let a 75-yr-old great grandma buy a Forester XT. I'd explain to her that this thing is a Corvette-killer in disguise and that you don't need all that power, it will get atrocious gas mileage anyway. The only reason she would want something like that anyway is because it's "top-of-the-line"...

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:54 pm

So pretty much you would discriminate and categorize people just like the rest of this thread is about. What if a dealership confused you for a 16 year old kid that didn't need whatever car you had looked at getting? How would that make you feel?

And in fact, the lady that sold Snowboarded's car to him was in fact an old lady that likes fast cars... and she did buy the Forester XT. And in conversing with her, she actually beat me to my key phrase "once you go turbo and AWD you don't go back". So you would have screwed over a perfectly nice old lady that got addicted to turbo awd cars.

Everyone seems to be focusing on themselves in this thread, not really thinking about what it is like for other people. That is as far as I would go with my criticism. And yes, I think someone of spanish descent would be offended by some of the comments made, and no, I am not of spanish descent.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:04 pm

I know William, I'm not saying it's in any way fair. But I wouldn't buy an STi myself, I know I can't handle all that power and I'm secure enough to admit it, whereas that stupid kid thinks he could handle a Stealth bomber. And the old lady, I'd at least give her a test-drive to see how she drove it. If she goes creeping along slow as molasses, then it's safe to say she has no idea what she's buying...

Everyone has prejudices though. It's human nature. There is not one person on this board who is 100% free of discriminatory or prejudiced thoughts. It's just that very few, if any, of us ever actually carry out such ideas...

tris91ricer · Post by **tris91ricer** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:45 pm

brat4by4 wrote:So pretty much you would discriminate and categorize people just like the rest of this thread is about.

Yup.

Gladly. I see now that some of our prejudices keep not just the discriminated person safe, but they uphold the standards we have.
For instance, let's pretend for a moment that no reputable used car salesman would sell a 16year old kid a 95 Civic. Why? Becuase he knows exactly what they're going to do with it, and exactly how they're going to drive it, all because of his enthusiasm in the vehicle. This salesman, by virtue of not selling popular cars to members of such a demographic has instantly saved lives, possibly even his own. Further down the line, he's protected that demographic from further insurance inflation due to the misdemeanors of others. He's protecting 16-24yo white males, as well as Honda owners (they get judged, too) And the friends, family, neighbors, etc of the people who drive said Civics.
Did that make sense? By discriminating, he's saved the world, twice. Now, I'm not saying I believe in this wholeheartedly as a theory or as a process, but I'd like to think I'm spotlighting what can happen when you treat people on an individual basis while taking into account their 'whys', their motivations, which also includes their race. (See 16 year old white boy wanting Civic?)
So I propose, and practice, on a daily basis the treatment of people as individuals, based not only on their race, but most importantly on their goals, aspirations, and dreams. (I know, redundant) If you take into account the 'inner' things as well as the 'outer' things, you get a good grasp on people and how they operate. It's people like me who proliferate these ideas and promote FORMS of racism, but not racism wholly.

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i dont think we drive "spic" mobiles?