legacycentral bbs

Oh yea, and I sent you an e-mail. I'd like your insight on it (exhaust related).

Phil - Yup, these days a lot of foreign cars on our roads have red turn signals. Only in the North American market, though. Like I said, they use the color choice as a stylistic option, safe in the knowledge that they will never be held responsible for any safety concerns. There are some markets in the world where having better lighting actually sells more cars, but this ain't one of them, sadly.

vrg3 wrote: Heh... that to me sounds like a euphemism for having a weaker sense of responsibility and conscience.

haha i wouldnt go that far, but i am placing a value judgment on your info although i do trust in its accuracy.

If you have the means, one thing I would be interested in seeing explored is the modification of aftermarket wheels to fit our cars properly. Our stock offset is much higher than other cars', so wheels meant for other 5x100mm hubs don't fit quite right. That causes handling problems, accelerated bearing wear, and tire scrubbing.

i am exploring the possibilites in depth haha. i have a feeling i could safely get a 7.5" wide wheel with a 205 tire in there no problems with an et35, minimal roll, zero rubbing. and i know your guys feelings about wheels that wide with a tire that size so lets not get into it.

my question is since our cars have lug studs, is having a hubcentric wheel crucial?

Hehe, yeah, like most automotive forums we kind of have a jargon of our own. If some searching doesn't yield a decent explanation, feel free to ask for one.

thanks mate...well i do have some issues trying to wrap my mind around some of the concepts since i really havent gotten my hands dirty yet. most of them revolve around the lack of model specific parts and their alternatives.

1) the DP issue
2) exhaust issue (how effective would a 2.5" custom bent setup work? will it save me money?)
3) where do i get coils for a wagon for less than $1k?
4) i want to get the car on the other side of 200 hp at the crank...

THAWA wrote:Your 91's turn signals aren't inboard of the headlights, they're below them.

Which rs wheels and which color change? Please not the 98's.

What kind of stuff did you need help with?

i just thought he meant horizontally inboard, i am aware they were below.

the RS wheels i was considering are the five-spoke ones that i guess were on the 98s, yes...thinking of a dark grey or charcoal.

LedJetta wrote:

vrg3 wrote: Heh... that to me sounds like a euphemism for having a weaker sense of responsibility and conscience.

haha i wouldnt go that far, but i am placing a value judgment on your info although i do trust in its accuracy.

I don't understand what you mean. What does it mean to place a value judgement on something?

my question is since our cars have lug studs, is having a hubcentric wheel crucial?

The hub-centric vs. lug-centric issue is actually independent of what type of fastener hardware you use.

It's your choice, but The Right Way is to use hub-centric wheels. The lug hardware is designed to clamp horizontally, rather than to position the wheel. If you go lug-centric, you're asking the hardware to do something it wasn't designed to do.

If you do go with a lug-centric setup, be sure to tighten the lug nuts gradually and evenly with the wheel off the ground, to check the torque often, and to periodically remove the wheels and examine the threaded hardware.

1) the DP issue

I'm not sure what you mean here. What's the issue? Do you just mean what type of downpipe is best? There's some disagreement about that, and it kind of depends on the rest of the system. To find the knowledge that's already here, try search terms like:

bellmouth
bell* divorce*
wastegate* downpipe*
ces downpipe

Be sure to select "search for all terms" for the ones with more than one word.

2) exhaust issue (how effective would a 2.5" custom bent setup work? will it save me money?)

The general consensus is that the first big exhaust restriction is the stock downpipe, and that the second is the stock muffler.

There are differing opinions on what to do when custom-building an exhaust... Some people say to make sure every bend is mandrel-bent, while others say to just use a larger pipe diameter and crush bend to save money. I'm not real good with exhaust stuff either, but if after a lot of searching you think it's appropriate, you might want to start a new thread in the exhaust forum with your questions.

3) where do i get coils for a wagon for less than $1k?

You mean just springs? Suspension is another part of our car I don't understand very well, but there's a lot of parts interchangeability between our cars and other Subarus. Sometimes you need to change parts in groups (like maybe springs with struts) and stuff like that... It'll take a while to sift through everything, but I'm sure you can learn a lot of you spend some time reading old posts in the Suspension forum.

4) i want to get the car on the other side of 200 hp at the crank...

There are already a couple of threads about this. Arguably the simplest way to do this is to upgrade to a slightly larger turbo with some kind of intercooling and exhaust upgrade.

LedJetta wrote:the RS wheels i was considering are the five-spoke ones that i guess were on the 98s, yes...thinking of a dark grey or charcoal.

Could I suggest using the 99 RS wheels? Same shape but they're silver.

Why does it matter if he's going to paint them anyway?

Or are you urging him not to reduce the number of gold RS wheels on the planet?

yeah that's why.

vrg3 wrote:
I don't understand what you mean. What does it mean to place a value judgement on something?

placing a subjective value on the importance of information, whether it true or untrue.

The hub-centric vs. lug-centric issue is actually independent of what type of fastener hardware you use.

i was not aware of this.

You mean just springs? Suspension is another part of our car I don't understand very well, but there's a lot of parts interchangeability between our cars and other Subarus. Sometimes you need to change parts in groups (like maybe springs with struts) and stuff like that... It'll take a while to sift through everything, but I'm sure you can learn a lot of you spend some time reading old posts in the Suspension forum.

i meant a full threaded body, height (maybe dampening as well) adjustable coilover. the interchangeability is my confusion. i have read a lot of posts and i am still not totally sure. i really just need to research more to figure out what i want to do...

THAWA wrote: Could I suggest using the 99 RS wheels? Same shape but they're silver.

if thats the route i end up choosing to go, i will take whatever set i can get my hands on. i am rather partial to sacrilege though.

What does one base the subjective value on?

Yeah... It's always easier to install wheels on a hub with studs, but you can use lug bolts just as well as lug nuts to mount a lug-centric wheel; I've done both.

As for the coilovers, you'll have to do a bunch of searching; I don't know if all the info is in any one thread. I know you can use coilovers meant for a pre-bugeye Impreza, but other options should work with the right top hats. The heavy rear of the wagon means you'll need to pay special attention to the adjustability ranges of the coilovers.

Threaded bodies is NOT for height adjustment! That's to adjust pre-load.

You need an independently height adjustable coilover (like a Tein Type-Flex) if you don't want to totally bugger up your cars handling.

Coilovers: You need the rear strut tops for a GC (93-01 Impreza), and the front's from any EJ powered Subaru. If you want Camber plates, they HAVE to be for a GC, or they HAVE to be Noltec plates.

My coilovers were on an impreza sedan. I can't WAIT to get them back

BAC5.2 wrote:Threaded bodies is NOT for height adjustment! That's to adjust pre-load.

you guys are still yelling...

on every height-adjustable coilover i have ever seen, the body is threaded and has a spring perch, which raises and lowers the ride height by threading up and down the body.

You need an independently height adjustable coilover (like a Tein Type-Flex) if you don't want to totally bugger up your cars handling.

here is the very kit you are speaking of (tein flex), which is precisely the type of coilover i was talking about.



looks to me like it is the same general design as the coilovers i have on my jetta. i jack the car up, thread the collar down the strut body, car goes down. do the opposite, car goes up.

I thought you were talking about lowering the car by lowering the spring perches.

Not yelling. Clarifying.

My coilovers aren't independently height adjustable. There's a stiffness issue with height adjustable coilovers. More moving bits = more places for play.

BAC5.2 wrote:I thought you were talking about lowering the car by lowering the spring perches.

LedJetta wrote:a full threaded body, height (maybe dampening as well) adjustable coilover.

BAC5.2 wrote:My coilovers aren't independently height adjustable. There's a stiffness issue with height adjustable coilovers. More moving bits = more places for play.

those things need a good cleaning, are the collars seized?

on a decent coilover that doesnt have independent dampening adjustment, the dampening should increase as the ride height is lowered. on a fully adjustable coilover, there is usually some kind of separate adjustment knob on the top of the piston accessible from the engine bay.

When people say full threaded body, and then mention height adjustable, I think they mean exactly what I said. Lower the car by lowering the spring perch (Ground Control style). In my experience, people seem to have this misconception that coilovers are just for lowering the car.

When you lower the ride height, I don't know any non-adjustable coilover that automatically increases damping. I know that when you drop the perch, you decrease preload, and raising the perch increases preload.

Dropping the cylinder (height adjustable) lowers the whole unit and the settings stay static.

What's the point of getting coilovers that aren't adjustable? Mine are 30-way adjustable (on the bottom of the strut though, not the top), and that should be enough lol. I'll probably run around on 20 front and 18 rear for daily driving.

No, the collars aren't seized. They are being rebuilt as we speak. If he doesn't paint them, I will.

BAC5.2 wrote:When people say full threaded body, and then mention height adjustable, I think they mean exactly what I said. Lower the car by lowering the spring perch (Ground Control style). In my experience, people seem to have this misconception that coilovers are just for lowering the car.

are yours not threaded body? are they not height adjustable? i have always heard the ground controls referred to as coilover "sleeves".

When you lower the ride height, I don't know any non-adjustable coilover that automatically increases damping. I know that when you drop the perch, you decrease preload, and raising the perch increases preload.

i was speaking from my VW experience here.

What's the point of getting coilovers that aren't adjustable? Mine are 30-way adjustable (on the bottom of the strut though, not the top), and that should be enough lol.

my jetta is too low to handle well, so i dont need it to be track-worthy and have 16 adjustments. i drive slowly.

it still rides well, and i can adjust the height wherever i want it. plus i paid $900 instead of $1200.

No, the collars aren't seized. They are being rebuilt as we speak. If he doesn't paint them, I will.

what type are they, and what model are they made for? how about height adjustment range?

Mine are not height adjustable. Like I said before, I am not much a fan of those. Another adjustment, means another area for play to develop. They are 30-way compression/rebound adjustable, and adjustable preload. I call Ground Controls, springs with an adjustable perch I guess.

What coilovers increase damping as you lower the ride height? ESPICALLY when height adjustability is independent of the preload. I guess decreasing preload, would make it SEEM like damping increased, since the car would be sluggish to react (every bump would lift the car off the perch).

I guess I just don't understand that mindset. You'll have to forgive my function over form ideals. I'm learning to accept more form oriented cars, but it takes time. I guess if it acheives the goals you were shooting for, then that's all that matters. Sounds like a pretty good deal too.

Mine are DMS 40mm Gold's. Those specific ones are for a 93-01 WRX. Not height adjustable, they lowered an RS about 2" though all around. So it should be pretty similar on my car.

I chose them for many reasons. A good deal was one ($1000 after rebuilding instead of the nearly $3700 retail price). And their ability to control body movement without sending harsh vibes down to the tires. Less bounciness, more consistant contact patch.

I was looking though the old threads and I can't find the answer. My 92 has a clear turn signal in the rear with an amber bulb, but my friends have an amber insert and a clear bulb. Odd?

Did you look at the bulb, J-MoNeY? Because I'm pretty sure all North American first-generation Legacies left the factory with clear rear turn signal bulbs. The 92 sedan taillights had different amber inserts in them that are largely invisible when the signal isn't illuminated, but they were still clear bulbs.

BAC5.2 wrote:Mine are not height adjustable. Like I said before, I am not much a fan of those. Another adjustment, means another area for play to develop.

ok i understand now. i have never heard of a set of coilovers with a set ride height before. i figure if they are good enough for porsches and numerous other racing applicatioms, they will probably be a safe bet for my use. i dont understand how you can question a set up that is so tried and true. its not something new on the scene, they have been around for quite some time now.

i will give you this though, you are hard core.

What coilovers increase damping as you lower the ride height? ESPICALLY when height adjustability is independent of the preload. I guess decreasing preload, would make it SEEM like damping increased, since the car would be sluggish to react (every bump would lift the car off the perch).

the coilovers on my jetta do to a certain point. once you have gone past the manufacturers suggested lowering though, it actually gets softer since there is so little gas left in the chamber due to the reduced travel.

I guess I just don't understand that mindset. You'll have to forgive my function over form ideals. I'm learning to accept more form oriented cars, but it takes time. I guess if it acheives the goals you were shooting for, then that's all that matters. Sounds like a pretty good deal too.

i dont expect you to understand, but i am impressed by your effort to understand. i am a graphic designer, i like how things look. sometimes at the cost of performance haha.

I chose them for many reasons. A good deal was one ($1000 after rebuilding instead of the nearly $3700 retail price). And their ability to control body movement without sending harsh vibes down to the tires. Less bounciness, more consistant contact patch.

good show, sounds like some serious hardware. just from my point of view, i cannot justify buying $3700 coilovers (regardless of what you actually paid) for street use. i cant think of a situation on the street that you could safely use 4/10ths of their potential. i cant even see autocross being a legit use really. i would have to be a full time racer to justify that kind of setup to myself. but either way, thanks for the clarification.

This thread has gone way beyond JDM tails.

It's not really even electrical any more

Let's take the respective conversations to the appropriate forums.

awww, but we were having so much fun