legacycentral bbs

beatersubi wrote:Would it be possible to make an emulator to tune a specific car/setup with?

Like Mike said, for the G tunes, there are no emulators for the Fujitsu Eprom. It is a very unique 16-bit prom with multiplexed address and data lines. If all that sounds like gobbeldy-gook, then just believe me that it's complicated. My long term project is an emulator of sorts that allows user live tuning, but it's complicated and will take some time so please don't hold your breath

-Rob

MikeyMeyagi wrote:My car has been running the 550 tune with a n/a jecs maf, and dual legacy igniters to drop back to the stock wasted spark. On my 22t/25d hybrid, it runs excellent. i would say it runs way better then it did on the stock 22t ecu. once the ecu learns my car a bit better i will go out with my wideband and get some afr readings under full boost, but as of now the drivability is superb. Rob was excellent to work with on this endeavor, and it has been well worth the money.

Thanks for the kind words Mike. At 15psi, what does you MAF voltage peak out at? I am curious with the .2l more displacement, when MAF limits will be reached.

-Rob

I looked at some pictures of the 22T ECU board. I think I figured out how to add a tuned chip. It doesn't look too bad at all. Maybe I need to get a hold of a spare ECU to play with. Any volunteers to loan one out?

So maybe an EJ22T chip is something I'll explore after all.....

-Rob

rob wrote: Thinking about it more, I don't think there would be any issues with this. ...... The fact that you have it working with a stock G ECU and Mike has my tune running on the dual igniter setup, that pretty much cements it. ..... It seems all you would need for a GD conversion is to run 4 wires from the ECU to the coils, +Batt to each coil (maybe tapped from the injectors?) and the ground wire to the mounting bolt. I don't know enough about the 22t coil pack to guess if the GD coils would give more output or not.

Our Legacies have the ECU mounted under the dash, over the pedals. For me the "correct" way to install the extra ignition channels is to pull the dash and fender, unwrap the harness and add the circuits, and then put it all back together. That's a ton of work, but likely worth it in the end. I did it on my winestone Legacy, but have not ran that conversion yet. I found the white car and haven't looked at the winestone in a long time.

I'm rehashing some info here, but I'm unaware how up-to-speed you are on the early Legacies. The Legacy turbo used an 8 bit Hitachi ECU, however the pinouts are exactly the same as the EJ20G. The only exceptions are the 2 extra ignition channels, one sensor ground location (MAP), and a few diagnostic and misc wires that the EJ20G doesn't need/use.

On my white Legacy, I kept the wasted spark by using a simple ECU jumper harness and ignitors mounted inside the cabin. I cut ZERO wires and the mod is completely reversable. My write-up is a thread titled "4 channel ECU How-to". I have successfully used both an EJ20G Legacy ECU and an EJ20G Apexi Power FC on the stock EJ22T motor. I then used the exact same set-up on a proper EJ20G when the head gaskets on the EJ22T popped from user error induced boost spikes.

I've never had it on a dyno, because I don't consider myself a tuner and am just now getting a smal grasp on the concepts. I've done tons of tweaking to the PFC and feel I have a safe tune, however, I always planned to eventually get it tuned professionally. It never seems to come together regarding time, money and desire. That's the reason I'm interested in your tune. I'm to the point I just want it to work....nothing more.....nothing less. I want it to work like it came from the factory with 300HP.

I have a spare EJ22T ECU you can "have" for an extended period of time.

If they are of any interest, here is a link to my photos of an EJ22T ECU, Legacy EJ20G ECU and an EJ20G Apexi PFC.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N ... 336718969/

watching because of my huge interest

PhyrraM wrote:

rob wrote: Thinking about it more, I don't think there would be any issues with this. ...... The fact that you have it working with a stock G ECU and Mike has my tune running on the dual igniter setup, that pretty much cements it. ..... It seems all you would need for a GD conversion is to run 4 wires from the ECU to the coils, +Batt to each coil (maybe tapped from the injectors?) and the ground wire to the mounting bolt. I don't know enough about the 22t coil pack to guess if the GD coils would give more output or not.

Our Legacies have the ECU mounted under the dash, over the pedals. For me the "correct" way to install the extra ignition channels is to pull the dash and fender, unwrap the harness and add the circuits, and then put it all back together. That's a ton of work, but likely worth it in the end. I did it on my winestone Legacy, but have not ran that conversion yet. I found the white car and haven't looked at the winestone in a long time.

Sure, I understand that. It's only 4-wires, so it can be done cleanly without a full harness integration But I do appreciate good clean wiring.

I'm rehashing some info here, but I'm unaware how up-to-speed you are on the early Legacies. The Legacy turbo used an 8 bit Hitachi ECU, however the pinouts are exactly the same as the EJ20G. The only exceptions are the 2 extra ignition channels, one sensor ground location (MAP), and a few diagnostic and misc wires that the EJ20G doesn't need/use.

On my white Legacy, I kept the wasted spark by using a simple ECU jumper harness and ignitors mounted inside the cabin. I cut ZERO wires and the mod is completely reversable. My write-up is a thread titled "4 channel ECU How-to". I have successfully used both an EJ20G Legacy ECU and an EJ20G Apexi Power FC on the stock EJ22T motor. I then used the exact same set-up on a proper EJ20G when the head gaskets on the EJ22T popped from user error induced boost spikes.

Yep I read through your description. It seemed like a good straightfoward approach.

I've never had it on a dyno, because I don't consider myself a tuner and am just now getting a smal grasp on the concepts. I've done tons of tweaking to the PFC and feel I have a safe tune, however, I always planned to eventually get it tuned professionally. It never seems to come together regarding time, money and desire. That's the reason I'm interested in your tune. I'm to the point I just want it to work....nothing more.....nothing less. I want it to work like it came from the factory with 300HP.

I have a spare EJ22T ECU you can "have" for an extended period of time.

Yep, that is exactly where the tuned stock ECU shine. Simply plug it in, start it up, and enjoy the added power. Yes the standalones have the ultimate flexibility, but it's exactly this flexibility that makes them not the best fit for most people. You have to spend quite a bit of time and money to get it tuned properly and still there will always be some extent of compromise for things you take for granted with the stock ECU. Usually, these tradeoffs are easy to justify giving the great power results. I know this first hand as I have both solutions.

If you want to try out on of my chip tunes, shoot me an email and we will figure something out. The EJ20G PFC go for a pretty penny on the used market, so you will come out of it with cash in your pocket for better tires or suspension mods.

-Rob
rob . files @ gmail . com

PhyrraM wrote:If they are of any interest, here is a link to my photos of an EJ22T ECU, Legacy EJ20G ECU and an EJ20G Apexi PFC.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N ... 336718969/

Thanks for that. Now that I can read the part number on the uP, I think it matches pretty much exactly what I had expected. The nice thing the 8-bit Hitachi setup is that it is much more standard than the Mitsubishi uP found on the EJ20G ECU. There are plenty of dissemblers and other tools for the Hitachi.

So yeah, go ahead and send me the the spare ECU. I see three major steps in delivering my own 22T chip solution;

1) Figuring out the hardware - this looks pretty easy and straight forward
2) Reversing the stock code and figuring out the base maps - This is straightforward but might take a bit. The fact that Revtronix figured this out, I'm guessing that there is another hitachi based ECU that matches pretty close and would give a big head start
3) Coming up with a good tune - things are a bit more wide open here. It will take local car(s) to play around with on the road and the dyno

Also, from your pictures I see you have an early Liberty EJ20G ECU. Unfortunately these not tunable. You will need another G ECU for chipping.

-Rob

I do have a '93 automatic WRX wagon ECU to send to you for the chip. I didn't have it when I snapped the pics.

I will see if I can get the WRX EJ20G board into a Legacy case and send it out. I'll send you the EJ22T ECU also, consider it a permenent loan. Keep it as long as you see fit.

I'm out for the weekend, but I'll send an email next week.

:me eating popcorn:

rob wrote:...Yes the standalones have the ultimate flexibility, but it's exactly this flexibility that makes them not the best fit for most people. You have to spend quite a bit of time and money to get it tuned properly and still there will always be some extent of compromise for things you take for granted with the stock ECU. Usually, these tradeoffs are easy to justify giving the great power results. I know this first hand as I have both solutions.

This is very well put.....as someone that has also run both setups, I've seen what a good standalone can do in terms of power....but it can also be a royal pain!

I am watching and praying this works out I would love to be able to run yellow tops, jecs maf and a vf39 on the stock ecu

I have a spare turbo ECU that could be available for tuning/research. PM me if interested.

Go Rob GO!

I cant wait for you to crack this hole EJ22T ecu deal! I was almost going to buy a new JDM legacy untill i found this thread!

Aswell WOW Rob your first post was epic full of great detail on eprom and stuff!

Keep it up.

beatersubi wrote:I have a spare turbo ECU that could be available for tuning/research. PM me if interested.

Cool. Since you are local, I will try work out a way to meet up this week. I'll send a PM.

-Rob

PhyrraM wrote:I do have a '93 automatic WRX wagon ECU to send to you for the chip. I didn't have it when I snapped the pics.

I will see if I can get the WRX EJ20G board into a Legacy case and send it out. I'll send you the EJ22T ECU also, consider it a permenent loan. Keep it as long as you see fit.

I'm out for the weekend, but I'll send an email next week.

Oh yeah, the WRX ECU will be fine. Sure, just send me a note and we will work out the details. If I can arrange something with beatersubi, then no need to send the stock ECU.

-Rob

Josh222 wrote:I am watching and praying this works out I would love to be able to run yellow tops, jecs maf and a vf39 on the stock ecu

For the near term, the best solution is to start looking for an EJ20G ECU and plan for my yellow tune. There is no guarantee I will have the same capability for the stock ECU.

-Rob

Rob,

Do you have any ECU's available to buy?

Alright so if I was going to start looking for the proper EJ20G ECU for my EJ20G swapped legacy, which years/models do I look for?

kimokalihi wrote:Alright so if I was going to start looking for the proper EJ20G ECU for my EJ20G swapped legacy, which years/models do I look for?

Nearly all 4-plug EJ20G ECUs will work. The early Liberty ECUs (as in PhyrraM's set of pictures) will not work. The 3-plug ecus from the weird late model Forester EJ20G/K hybrids also will not work. If in question, shoot me a note and i can let you know if it's good or not.

I have a few spares that I use for ECU exchanges. I would probably be ok selling one or two of them, but would ask a bit more than standard as I have spent a good amount of time and effort collecting these over time.

-Rob

Hey Rob, I've been trying to get a hold of you for 2 days. I'm going to Portland tomorrow to pick up an ecu and wanted to drop by to do the exchange. Please get back to me asap because I'd like to schedule this with one trip.

Just for those following the thread, Florin and I got it worked out, and he is picking up a G tune later today. He is brave soul #3 to try it out on a 22t build. Stay tuned for his results.

As for the 22t ECU dev work, there are many folks offering stock ECUs, so no worries there. When I get my grubby little hands on one, I'll update how I think it is shaping up. Also if anybody has a Revtronix chip they would like to loan out, I would be interested. NOTE: I'm not looking to "steal" anything about the tune, it's just that comparing modified ECU code would go a long way to speeding up my code reversing. I would still expect to do my own analysis and tuning; mostly because I think I could probably do a better job and add some extra nifty features like launch control and a knock light.

Oh, and I have been thinking about a better way to adapt the G ECU for waste spark arrangement. I think I have figured out an easy solution and have some parts on the way. I'll update this one once I have something to try out....

I'm also keeping my eye out for a local turbo legacy for sale as a development vehicle. If anybody has a line on a good (read - cheap and good condition ), shoot me a PM.

I finally finished updating the first post and added the list of users to the second post.

-Rob

Sent you a PM, Rob.

Met Rob today. Bought the ecu from him. (and he's gonna just GIVE me his jdm sti seats )Looking forward to the install. Just waiting for a td05 or similar turbo now. Anybody?? The sooner someone gets me one, the sooner we can ALL see how this ECU deal goes.