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Posted: **Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:29 am**

xp's firewall is really not that bad, and would work.

The funny thing is, even when michael had his computer hooked up to the modem, his ip was still an internal ip address.

When he connected to my server, it gave an external IP, but it was not back traceable to his machine. So I have a funny feeling they are already doing a NAT on his connection.

...and doing it again is probably freaking the router out. I did notice they mention that only certain routers work.

Michael, you might want to call them up and ask them, what exactly is your connection type, PPOE, tcp/ip, or are they using NAT?

That would probably help us identify what exactly the problem is.

Posted: **Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:04 am**

When his computer was connected to the modem but had an internal address, was the DSL internet connection actually working?

One thing to try with the router is tell it to use a different subnet. If the DSL provider is using 192.168.0.0, maybe try using 10.0.0.0 (which is what I usually use).

Posted: **Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:44 am**

Okay, so I need to call Bellsouth and find out what type of connection I'm on, as in PPPoE, TCP/IP, NAT, whatever.

Also, another opinion I gathered from someone. He said the fact that I'm using XP Home Edition is automatically making things very difficult, as Home Edition is supposedly "non-networkable." So the router is really not agreeing with XP. I could do it, but it would be a royal PITA. Has anyone else heard this?

Also, I tried putting my username and password into the router settings today, but it didn't work. I'm curious if I might hafta enter a connection name, host name, and domain name like it asks for, which I have no idea what those are.

Josh, my modem's IP is 192.168.1.254 and what happens when I type that into my address bar in IE, that brings me to the modem setup page just like the router. If you're not already logged in, you will have to enter the username and password into those modem settings, and then it will connect to the Internet.

Posted: **Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:39 pm**

Hmm.

Okay.

So you need to connect to the modem with a web browser in order to log in.

So maybe the communication between the modem and your computer is not PPPoE?

Okay.

Hmm.

So you need a router that doesn't care if the "WAN" is a private network. Hopefully your router is dumb enough. This is probably where BellSouth's idea that only some routers can be used with their DSL comes from.

And you need a router that can use a different private network for its "LAN."

And you need your computer to be willing to route through the router to get to a private address.

Sooooo..... This is what the kind of thing I think you should do. See if this makes sense to you (I'm kind of basing this on Linksys' EtherFast Router manual on their web site, which I know doesn't quite match what you have):

- Plug the router in without connecting it to the DSL modem, and restart your computer.

- Use Internet Explorer to access the router's configuration page (probably something like going to http://192.168.1.1/).

- Set the LAN IP address of the router to 10.0.0.1

- Set the LAN subnet mask of the router to 255.255.255.0

- Set the WAN IP of the router to be automatically/dynamically assigned.

- Commit the changes. The router will probably need to be restarted, and so will your computer. If it worked, you'll now be able to access the router's configuration with IE using the address http://10.0.0.1/

- Okay. Now hook up the DSL modem, and restart the router. Then go to the router's configuration with IE. Hopefully it should show a WAN IP address of 192.168.1.something.

- Now.... Open up a command prompt in XP, and try typing this command:

Code: Select all

route add 192.168.1.0 mask 255.255.255.0 10.0.0.1

- Now see if going to http://192.168.1.254/ in IE gives you the DSL modem login page. If it does, then you should be able to log in and then surf the information superhighway at broadband speed with the protection of the router. I think.

Posted: **Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:00 pm**

What vikash has typed up sounds like a good solution, and definitley worth a try.

Vikash, what exactly does tweaking the routing table do? I haven't played with routing tables too much. Will he have to run this every time he reboots his computer? Any tech/geek explanation would be great

Michael,

Winxp home is networkable, however it can only do peer-to-peer networking if I remember correctly. I beta tested home edition in the early stages when they implemented this. I found out what they were doing, got pissed off, and didn't really participate too much in the beta.

Posted: **Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:42 pm**

Vikash, I will try all that, but just so you know, I have never seen the letters "WAN" in the router setting page anywhere. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, I dunno.

But there is a drop-down menu at the top of the Setup page that has these 7 options in it:
-Obtain an IP automatically
-Static IP
-PPPoE
-RAS
-PPTP
-Heart Beat Signal
-L2TP

I'm presuming that when you want me to set the WAN IP of the router to a dynamic IP, you want me to set this drop-down menu to Obtain automatically. Is that correct?

Josh, in that case, the next computer I buy will probably just be an XP Pro computer (or whatever professional/business OS they have by then). Is the XP machine you were working with before a Home or Pro? And what do you use as your main computer (for an OS)?

Posted: **Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:48 pm**

yeah set the list to obtain an ip automatically

the xp machine I was talking about is pro.

I use 2000 as my main OS.

My laptop has it on there, server is 2000, my desktop is dual boot between 2000 & xp pro (this is probably going to get reformatted and win2003 server loaded to do testing with exchange 2003 & upgrading my server) I also have a test machine which has two separate partitions of xp pro.....and finally one lonely old 200 mhz nt 4 server which never runs

Posted: **Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:50 pm**

Oh yeah, I left that out... If the route command is necessary it will have to be run every time the computer starts up. I would expect that XP would have some way to automate that, or even to just statically modify the routing tables, but I don't know how.

Actually, Michael, try it without the route command first, and then if it doesn't work, type in the route command and then try it.

Most consumer "routers" I've seen call the external interface "WAN" and the local one "LAN." So, yeah, I think what I'm saying is tell it to obtain an external IP automatically.

Josh - I'll write a quick explanation of routing tables in another response, so that the above can get posted as soon as possible.

Posted: **Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:03 pm**

Routing tables just tell your TCP/IP stack how to route packets. Each entry basically consists of a network address and either a router address or an interface.

For example, let's see how Michael's computer (if the router were working) would figure out how to send a packet to your web server. This may not be exactly right, but it'll give you some idea:

It would know it needs to send the packet to surrealmirage.com (69.73.171.5).

It would see if it could find a routing entry whose network address matches. It'd find the default route, which matches any address. That entry would say to route it through the DSL modem, 192.168.1.254.

So then it would look for an entry telling it how to send to that address. It would find the route he added by hand, that says to get to 192.168.1.anything, route it through the router, 10.0.0.1.

Then it would look for an entry on that, and it would find one saying to get to 10.0.0.anything, go through the ethernet interface.

Now that's gotten all the way to an interface, it'll just send the packet out that interface.

Type "route print" at a command prompt sometime to see all your routing table entries.

Posted: **Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:27 am**

vrg3 wrote:Oh yeah, I left that out... If the route command is necessary it will have to be run every time the computer starts up. I would expect that XP would have some way to automate that, or even to just statically modify the routing tables, but I don't know how.

Just use -p so, route add "insert route" -p makes it permanent

Posted: **Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:50 am**

Hmm.....I think the whole process may be a little more complicated....but yeah I think that gives me an idea.

This is my routing table

Code: Select all

===========================================================================
Interface List
0x1 ........................... MS TCP Loopback interface
0x1000003 ...00 20 e0 66 30 9f ...... Intel 8255x-based Integrated Fast Ethernet

===========================================================================
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
Network Destination        Netmask          Gateway       Interface  Metric
          0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0      192.168.1.3    192.168.1.10       1
        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1       1
      192.168.1.0    255.255.255.0     192.168.1.10    192.168.1.10       1
     192.168.1.10  255.255.255.255        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1       1
    192.168.1.255  255.255.255.255     192.168.1.10    192.168.1.10       1
        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0     192.168.1.10    192.168.1.10       1
  255.255.255.255  255.255.255.255     192.168.1.10    192.168.1.10       1
Default Gateway:       192.168.1.3
===========================================================================
Persistent Routes:
  None

I guess the 192.168.1.0 is the default route correct?

If you look at my default route

Code: Select all

      192.168.1.0    255.255.255.0     192.168.1.10    192.168.1.10       1

It's basically pointing back at itself. If we look at what you told michael to do, it would be changing the gateway for that default route to be the router instead of the local IP. Correct?

yeah -p can be used to make the route persistant.

Posted: **Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:59 am**

Yes, it's a little more complicated than that, but those are the basics.

Your default route is the first line:

Code: Select all

          0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0      192.168.1.3    192.168.1.10       1

A netmask of 0.0.0.0 matches any address, regardless of what the network address is. So your default route is to route through 192.168.1.3.

The line you're referring to:

Code: Select all

      192.168.1.0    255.255.255.0     192.168.1.10    192.168.1.10       1

Is saying that to get to 192.168.1.x, go through 192.168.1.10. That seems weird to me...

You have this route:

Code: Select all

    192.168.1.10  255.255.255.255        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1       1

That says to get to 192.168.1.10 you use 127.0.0.1 as the gateway... 127.0.0.1 is the local address on the loopback interface (a virtual network that contains no computer other than your own). This is kind of weird.

Is this part of some Windows XP firewall thing that I don't understand?

What I told Michael he might need is an explicit route saying to get to 192.168.1.x it should route through the router. Ordinarily, most systems I've dealt with don't include private IP address ranges when looking at the default route. That makes sense if you think about it; if you try to connect to a private IP address on a network that your computer's not on, it should fail.

Posted: **Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:19 am**

Vikash, I want to resurrect the "Vikash is a god" thread for you!

Your instructions you posted earlier today worked! I got the router to work! I had to use the command you said though, it didn't work without it.

Now what were you saying about me having to login everytime I start my computer? That's not a big deal, I'm willing to do that, but what should I have to login with?

But anyway thanks for the help guys!

Posted: **Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:18 pm**

Guess what? I don't have to login anything! I just turned my comp on and everything worked immediately!

Again, thanks Vikash, and of course, thanks Josh. All of you that posted your ideas, thanks to you too!

Now I can thoroughly enjoy my broadband connection!

Posted: **Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:49 pm**

Awesome. Awesome to the max.

Now, reboot your computer, and open up a command prompt window, and type this:

Code: Select all

route add 192.168.1.0 mask 255.255.255.0 10.0.0.1 -p

It's the same route command you typed before except with a -p at the end. According to what totech and Josh say, that should make the change permanent and then you won't have to do anything in the future.

You should only need to log in to the DSL modem (via IE) the one time you did, since the router will maintain the connection. So unless you have a power outage or have to unplug the router or modem, you shouldn't need to do anything to get online. Hopefully.

Posted: **Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:50 pm**

This is on a windows 2000 machine, not XP, and has nothing to do with any firewall thing.

It may just be how MS deals with the routing tables and such....I don't know.

Here's the routing table from my computer at work. Same basic layout

Code: Select all

===========================================================================
Interface List
0x1 ........................... MS TCP Loopback interface
0x1000003 ...00 04 76 41 57 8c ...... 3Com 10/100 Mini PCI Ethernet Adapter
0x1000004 ...00 c0 4f f8 20 57 ...... 3Com 3C90x Ethernet Adapter
===========================================================================
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
Network Destination        Netmask          Gateway       Interface  Metric
          0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0    172.31.10.251   172.31.10.146       1
        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1       1
      172.31.10.0    255.255.255.0    172.31.10.146   172.31.10.146       1
    172.31.10.146  255.255.255.255        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1       1
   172.31.255.255  255.255.255.255    172.31.10.146   172.31.10.146       1
        224.0.0.0        224.0.0.0    172.31.10.146   172.31.10.146       1
  255.255.255.255  255.255.255.255    172.31.10.146         1000003       1
Default Gateway:     172.31.10.251
===========================================================================
Persistent Routes:
  None

You know what I just thought of......the router has it's on routing table you can configure. He might be able to tweak things in there.

Michael, glad to hear it works. Check your routing table and see if you have any perisistant routes that refer to what you typed in. That's probably why you can just boot it up and have everything work.

Posted: **Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:20 pm**

That is weird. So the computer's acting as a router at all times, routing its own packets through itself?

Michael doesn't need to tweak any routing tables except for adding that one entry that tells his computer it's okay to try to contact 192.168.1.0 as an external network.

Posted: **Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:45 am**

Okay, two other questions folks:

1) Let's say I have a cheap-ass friend who wants to steal my bandwidth instead of getting his own DSL connection

. Can he literally plug-and-play into another port in the router, or does he have to go through a similar setup procedure?

2) I can't seem to use WinMX. When I switched over to the primary connection for DSL instead of the secondary for dial-up, it asked for TCP and UDP numbers. I put the ones I had in, but it doesn't seem to work, since I searched something obvious like Britney Spears and nothing came up. Even if something does come up, I can't DL it. Any ideas?

Thanks for the continued help

Edit: He plugged-and-played, the jerkoff! Wish it was that easy

Posted: **Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:21 pm**

Yeah, new connections would work but depending on the system it might be necessary to add an entry to the routing table.

Josh said you seemed to be behind a firewall at BellSouth, so you might not be able to poke holes in the firewall for WinMX. You might have to put it in the "firewalled with no way to accept incoming connections" mode.

Posted: **Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:52 pm**

Okay, that makes sense. It works now. Thanks again!

Posted: **Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:06 pm**

No problema!

Posted: **Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:40 am**

Alright one more thing:

My AIM signs off for 2 seconds then signs back on, this happens about every 10-15 minutes or so. I've been told this could be a router problem... Any thoughts?

Posted: **Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:49 pm**

Does this happen only when you're not actively using IM, or all the time?

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:22 am**

All the time, even when I'm active. Sometimes it will do that within a 5-minute period, sometimes an hour...

It wouldn't surprise me that the software could be messed up, as I told it to not open the AIM.com window when I sign on and it still comes on, even when I make sure it's off...

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:10 am**

It could be anything... I have no idea where to start. Do any other programs do the same thing? Like if you're on IRC for a long time, does it hiccup the connection?

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