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You are SO horribly wrong about the electrical problems. If there is one thing I will praise Subarus (or just about any Japanese car, for that matter) for... are sound electrical systems.

Besides batteries and alternators, I've never had electrical problem #1 with any Subaru I own. Period.

Crank pullies? Yeah, happens. But not that often. I've never replaced one either.

I don't consider sun visors a reliability problem, nor do I consider headliners a reliability problem either. Those are just wear items. I've never had a sun visor fall down, and the only reason the headliner in the 93 wagon my grandfather had was starting to come loose was because of the sunroof leak it had.

Wheel bearings? Yeah, it's a problem. It's because of the six-star badge. It's a Subaru thing. SVXs and Foresters are worse about it. It's a Subaru thing just like crank walking is a DSM thing.

Rust? In my opinion, it's only because most Subarus are used up north, where their AWD is advantageous.

Hey wait, I thought we were talking about sports cars

[quote="evolutionmovement"]The pistons are always high compression or they couldn't start. The turbo compliments a diesel since the highly compressed gases provide more energy than a gas engine's pulses to spin a turbo and the internals are already really strong to handle the extra pressure. Heat, within reason, is also a better comliment as it uses it to ignite the fuel/air mix. Extra heat can be accounted for by later injection cycles on the fuel since fuel timing is like spark timing to a gas engine.

I never liked diesels much until I worked on them and I now love them. It's so much simpler rugged than gas with better efficiency. Only thing I don't like is the pollution, but they're working on that. I can't wait to see if I can get my hands on the new Subaru diesel and put it in a 1984 hardtop. =quote]


ive never heard anyone explain diesels engines so good. better then my auto teacher i had.

I think I'm going to look at this a bit differently.

I can change a Subaru timing belt without pulling the accessories.

I can change the starter or alternator without getting on my back.

I can make a $500 '90 base FWD Legacy into a 400HP STI/EVO killer without picking up a welder. In fact most anything can be done with basic hand tools.

To me, it's not about what these cars WERE when they were new (Galant VR4 was my preferance then), it's about what they ARE now.

If you are looking to start an AWD project TODAY, I cannot think of a better starting point among almost any brand, of any vintage.

Steve- I've always heard Diesels were actually less harmfull to the enviroment then regular gas engines. They're exaust is just a lot darker and stinky but contains less harmful emmisions.

Diesels get an unnecessarily bad reputation.

By nature, diesels have much higher NOx and the particluates are a carcinogen, they also contribute to acid rain (which low sulfur fuel is meant to correct). They are definitely better in terms of CO, CO2, and HC. Particulate traps and urea injection they use in Europe to clean up the particulates, and you can convert NOx to a degree, but there's just no way completely around that due to the high temperatures and air/fuel mix (like the stratified charge injection gas engines I mentioned).

Presently, no European diesel (at least not those in a chassis that can be imported to the US) passes the more stringent emissions standards of some states (CA, NY, MA, etc.), and some don't pass any of them, but I won't be surprised to see that change in a few years.

I'm not too savvy on diesels. Steve, do diesels use EGR systems or not?

Like Steve has said, the super-high combustion temperatures bring most of the pollutants down, because the combustion is essentially more complete than it is in a gasoline engine. But NOx actually increases with combustion temperature. That's what EGR systems do, they actually bring the combustion temperature back down to reduce the NOx emissions.

So, Matt, to answer your question: Diesels don't pollute more than gasolines, they pollute differently.

I used to have several beefs with diesels, but the only one I can come up with now is the difficulty to start when cold, which might not even be a problem on the new ones. Pollution really isn't a problem anymore with the new-for-2007 low-sulfur diesel fuel like Steve mentioned, noise really isn't a problem anymore either (listen, or try to listen, to a Mercedes BlueTec run if you can), and even high-end power isn't a problem anymore either (two words: Audi R10).

I, like Steve, anxiously await the Subaru diesel.

Oh, and Steve, I'm not like in love with you or anything, you just had a lot of good stuff to reference to

I'm not sure what the new systems are doing with EGR. I would think they do, but I don't know for sure. Cold starting was never a problem in winter even with our shit Isuzu NPR. Just hit the glow plugs for a couple seconds, give it a little choke, and it would start right up. Never had much problem with starting diesels if the batteries are charged. Any issues are pretty simple, too. Fuel. That's it. Either a pump, injector, or it needs to be bled (very common with boats), which is a lot easier than it's made out to be, at least in marine or that NPR's cases. I don't have any experience with the new generation of engines for obvious reasons. I wouldn't own any larger boat that didn't have diesels (like the Chris Craft 40 Roamer in my books), but shit the purchase price versus gas is high!

One weird issue I don't like is that if the fuel sits around too long (like with idiots who own sail boats that refuse to run the engine) you get nasty growth in the tank that pretty much requires replacement (this shit gets THICK), which can really suck when you're talking about a tank that was installed basically before the top of the boat was attached.

Mike, there's no shame in loving the sheer awesomeness that is me.

Steve - The Benz Bluetec passes CA emissions I believe.

A Subaru diesel is coming, from what the rumors say.

I was under the impression it didn't, but I may be wrong. I thought it wasn't legal in CA or MA, but might be OK in the rest of the states. The only things being evaluated that are supposed to pass (I believe) are the urea-injected cars and the particulate traps. I know there was a debate as to how M-B (with their urea injection) would 'make' the customer get the urea replaced when it ran out. The EPA wanted to give the customer a day of warning and then have the car not start. M-B rightfully thought this was retarded so they were thinking of forcing it into a limp mode. Don't know if or how this has been resolved. The best answer is the particulate trap, but M-B apparently doesn't charge enough for its cars to justify the extra cost vs. urea, though Peugeot seems to have no trouble with it. Of course you all know my opinions on all those overrated, over-priced, now overstyled German trash.

Am I the only one who thinks asking the owner of a BlueTec car to just piss in the tank once a month isn't a bad idea?

Steve's right about the EU desiels to my knowledge. I took a combustion course last year, and that was one of the things they touched on, is that for 2007, US pushed their particulate limits up, and none of the european desiel car makers can meet the standard.

Eventually, the EU & US standards will have similar final levels, but in the EU, they gradually decrease the levels so auto manufacturers and technology can create a more economical solution.

evolutionmovement wrote: Just hit the glow plugs for a couple seconds, give it a little choke,

Diesels don't have chokes...nor would they make any difference...It was probably a high idle valve


My 83 Mercedes 240D had EGR...but it was a total shenanigan, and I remember discussing it with my Mercedes Dealer Technician friend, and he said they are really more harmful to the motor than anything, as they sludge the bejesus out of the intake, which I saw firsthand in my car.

The NPR did indeed have a choke or the high idle control was nearly the same thing as it was a plate in the intake that you could adjust for how much you wanted it open.

PhyrraM wrote:I think I'm going to look at this a bit differently.

I can change a Subaru timing belt without pulling the accessories.

I can change the starter or alternator without getting on my back.

I can make a $500 '90 base FWD Legacy into a 400HP STI/EVO killer without picking up a welder. In fact most anything can be done with basic hand tools.

To me, it's not about what these cars WERE when they were new (Galant VR4 was my preferance then), it's about what they ARE now.

If you are looking to start an AWD project TODAY, I cannot think of a better starting point among almost any brand, of any vintage.

first off shalom!
second my damn eyes hurt because i have been reading this whole thread start to finish for the past 40 mins
third we are now way off the topic, i love my car and everything about it, and call me a little salty about this thread, its ridiculous. nothing has been proven for either side, pro performance or not.. i am on the pro performance side of things. but something tells me neither side will be proven because it cant be done. its all about how you "how you want to perceive it". All i have to ask is that you dont come into here and bash what we are here for. get friggen real. peace