ok......let me know......I'll try and call tomorrow to see if the TB for
the turbo legacy is the same as the N/A. I'm still goin to probably
need a TB.....so if you can see if you have any extra to sell me
Al....I'd appreciate any help.
Talked to a buddy who owns a shop.....he said the bushings go away over
time, and you can rebuild them.....at least that's what he did on one of
his cars......I'd probably just get a new TB........or new to me TB.
Thanks for checkin the stuff out Al.
Josh
************************************
Josh Colombo
Josh@surrealmirage.com <mailto:
Josh@surrealmirage.com>
"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:
acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:33 PM
To:
BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
I have seen this stuff before so the factory did use it on some of the
tb assys that they made. I think it is a Moly type grease and I can
see that is was applied with some sort of a brush before things were
assembled. But it probably is nothing real important they couldn't
expect the stuff to really be a sealer and have a service life. I
didn't find any good TB's today only the late model type but I will
look more tommorow.
AL(CO)
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
>
> On some GM cars there is a clay or sealing compound that is around
the throttle plate.....it's put there to help seal everything off and
what not.....I wonder if this molly lube stuff is similar.....
>
> I was told my the subaru mechanics that the subaru TB's don't have
anything like this......can you confirm the greese was on all the TB's
you looked at.....any clue on the type of grease and where it was
smeared and the likes......
>
> Thanks Al.....good luck with your IAC valve issues.....
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:38 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> I will check in the morning on any that we may have. Most of the
ones
> that I was looking at today were on customer cars, shop cars, and my
> car but I think that there are a few around. This does pretty well
> eliminate any vacuum leaks and narrows it down to the TB and that
the
> "extra air " is coming in the intake of the TB. One thing I did
notice
> is that there is a black grease smeared around the inside of the TB
> about where the plate is??? I think that it is just moly lube for
the
> plate. Mine went bonkers again today I found that there is no 12
Volts
> to the plug for the IAC the wire probably broke during my work on
it.
> AL(CO)
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > well....I'm back from my escapades......
> >
> > Unfortunately.....I don't have any real definitive answers.
> >
> > I slowly closed off the air passage to the throttle body while it
> was running.....which I might add is quite difficult to keep
> everything situated. Did this a couple times. I did get the engine
> to stall once or twice when I put the cardboard piece in front of
the
> entire throttle body. It was hard trying to seal off both
> sides.....the intake and the TB side.....
> >
> > When I finally stopped was when I had pretty much the entire thing
> plugged....maybe a 1/8-1/4" was left....and all of a sudden I hear a
> big "POP" The strong vacuum from the intake had blown a hole
through
> the cardboard piece. I've attached two pics of the plug thing I was
> usin and the nice hole.
> >
> > So like I said.....I really wouldn't say any of this info is
> conclusive in any way....unless you can see something I can't. It
is
> very difficult to slowly seal off the air inlet, and not let air
back
> feed through the intake, or around the throttle body.
> >
> > I saw both those screws, and they look like they work in
> unison.....I really wouldn't want to mess with them. I can't even
> reach the top screw to adjust.
> >
> > I think the next step should be to try another throttle body. The
> cleaner could've eaten through the seals around the throttle plate
> shaft or messed something up. I really don't know.
> >
> > Larry....you sure you don't mind lending me that TB......how much
> did it cost you? How much do these things run new/used? and is
the
> turbo legacy TB larger then the N/A engine.....you think I'd benefit
> from a swap.....i.e. more airflow...more power.
> >
> > Al, you said you had some you looked at today.....are those for
> sale.....if so....how much?
> >
> > Thanks everybody for helpin me out.
> >
> > Larry & Al feel free to email me privately if you want.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 80 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > What I meant was that you might try plugging up the throttle body
> with
> > the IAC all the way one direction and then plug it up again with
the
> > IAC all the way in the other direction. If it would idle in only
one
> > position that might give you an idea where the extra air is coming
> > from. I looked at 3 or 4 throttle bodys today and they seem to be
> set
> > up so that the stops contact both screws at almost the same time
and
> > it is that way on my car also and when you look at the plate you
> would
> > think it was closed. There is a small passage in the top of the TB
> and
> > it looks like it is a bypass of sorts and the throttle plate
crosses
> > very close to the center of the hole for the passage. It's going
to
> be
> > interesting to find out what you discover.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > > I'll plug up the TB.....and see what happens.
> > >
> > > I didn't quite follow you when you said to block off the TB
> opening
> > twice...?
> > >
> > > If you could explain more, that would be great.
> > >
> > > One would assume a certain amount of air should go through the
> > TB....but how much is how much?
> > >
> > > I will take a look at the stop screws and such and see what's
goin
> > on
> > >
> > > The IAC valve is set to a mid-way point....so I'm not sure if
that
> > should be adjusted any......
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Mon 5/20/2002 11:11 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would almost bet that you will find that the TB is letting
> > to much
> > > air in to the engine. I noticed that when I had the plate open
> > to far
> > > and the idle was above 1000 the IAC really didn't make very
> > much
> > > difference. The opening made inside the TB isn't very linear
> > and if it
> > > is off it will mess up the idle because the IAC just can't
> > correct for
> > > such a large opening. If you block off the TB opening and it
> > makes
> > > a large difference that will just about prove that the plate
> > is open
> > > to much. I would block off the TB opening twice with the IAC
> > > adjustment at both ends as if it is wide open it could make
> > the test
> > > invalid.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves,
> > it was
> > > off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a
> > little bit
> > > higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere
> > in
> > > there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no
> > real
> > > jitteryness and such.
> > > >
> > > > Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific
> > throttlebody....I
> > > sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it
> > wouldn't fix
> > > anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose
> > completely
> > > off....
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Josh Colombo
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged
> > it.....no real
> > > > change. I'll double check tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as
> > far as I
> > > can
> > > > see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed.
> > I'll
> > > > double check though tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I can try slippin something between the throttle body and
> > intake and
> > > > close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the
> > IAC
> > > valve
> > > > will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.
> > > >
> > > > All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I
> > will
> > > double
> > > > check tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all
> > > possible....but
> > > > lemme see what I find tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle
> > plate it
> > > > must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have
> > air. The
> > > > power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch
> > it? did
> > > > the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick?
> > Right at
> > > the
> > > > end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the
> > sheath
> > > > there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them
> > didn't get
> > > > loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has
> > to be
> > > > getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it
> > doesn't
> > > > use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car.
> > You can
> > > > turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we
> > find the
> > > > problem you can put it back if you have to.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on
> > par with
> > > > what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for
> > me at
> > > the
> > > > moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel
> > pressure goes
> > > up
> > > > to 38 psi.
> > > > >
> > > > > So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the
> > pump and
> > > the
> > > > FPR are working properly.
> > > > >
> > > > > I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to
> > idle. I
> > > > pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was
> > rough.
> > > > Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that
> > tells me
> > > > IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
> > > > >
> > > > > So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted
> > all I can
> > > > think of....everything is in spec.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle
> > body
> > > > gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could
> > have gone
> > > > through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear
> > some air
> > > > going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle
> > should've
> > > rose.
> > > > >
> > > > > So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have
> > gotten
> > > > out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
> > > > >
> > > > > I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop
> > screws....they are
> > > set
> > > > on a bench and should not be touched.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I
> > call an
> > > > exorcist?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > >
> > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the
> > IAC
> > > plugged
> > > > > you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine
> > will stop
> > > > > running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no
> > air
> > > going
> > > > > to the engine under such conditions, all the air is
> > provided by
> > > thr
> > > > > IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed
> > off at
> > > > idle.
> > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that,
> > that dirt
> > > > > helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the
> > case.
> > > My
> > > > > idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the
> > car....no
> > > matter
> > > > > "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500
> > > rpm.....stay
> > > > > there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's
> > like the
> > > > car
> > > > > thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up.
> > IAC
> > > > valve
> > > > > isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should
> > be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the
> > hose
> > > off
> > > > of
> > > > > the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled
> > high.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After
> > > that......I'm
> > > > > truly out of ideas.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that
> > would
> > > > > happen......
> > > > > >
> > > > > > josh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might
> > have
> > > > > cleaned
> > > > > > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more
> > air to
> > > > > get by
> > > > > > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to
> > set
> > > > > mine a
> > > > > > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle
> > started
> > > > > wandering
> > > > > > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct
> > for the
> > > > > fast idle
> > > > > > and couldn't quite do it.
> > > > > > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and
> > sqeeze
> > > > > the hose
> > > > > > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a
> > piece
> > > > > of hose
> > > > > > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was
> > about 7
> > > > > years ago
> > > > > > and the car still runs ok.
> > > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> > <josh@s...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hmmm....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well I did have an open style intake on the
> > car.....but it
> > > > > is no
> > > > > > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop
> > screws
> > > > > before I
> > > > > > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> > > > > adjustment.....or what
> > > > > > they were supposed to be.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned
> > it....but that
> > > > > really
> > > > > > didn't help.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator.
> > Seeing how
> > > > > it is
> > > > > > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or
> > dirt
> > > > > got in
> > > > > > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked
> > vacuum to the
> > > > > > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've
> > gotta pick
> > > > > up a
> > > > > > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see
> > if it
> > > > > holds a
> > > > > > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi
> > of fuel
> > > > > > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to
> > balance
> > > > > > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure.
> > So at
> > > > > idle....if
> > > > > > everything is working correctly.....that would leave
> > about 16
> > > > > psi of
> > > > > > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator
> > is not
> > > > > the
> > > > > > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced
> > or
> > > > > swapped out
> > > > > > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF,
> > and
> > > > > coolant temp
> > > > > > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all
> > ears.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You
> > mentioned you
> > > > > had set
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you
> > have an
> > > > > intake
> > > > > > kit
> > > > > > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do
> > not
> > > > > count as far
> > > > > > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the
> > problem on
> > > > > my car
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down.
> > I
> > > > > wrongly
> > > > > > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air
> > control
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the
> > idle
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may
> > have had
> > > > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw
> > on the
> > > > > TB. What
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one
> > turn
> > > > > after
> > > > > > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down
> > until I hit
> > > > > 800rpm
> > > > > > > and it works.
> > > > > > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it
> > is a bit
> > > > > critical
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> > <josh@s...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older
> > one i
> > > > > have, same
> > > > > > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS
> > were off
> > > > > a used
> > > > > > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the
> > same with
> > > > > two
> > > > > > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted
> > according to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > FSM's.
> > > > > > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and
> > put back
> > > > > to where
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > was supposed to be.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > > > > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> > > > > regulator. I
> > > > > > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and
> > do some
> > > > > testing
> > > > > > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through
> > the
> > > > > throttle
> > > > > > plate
> > > > > > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but
> > it
> > > > > doesn't act
> > > > > > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot
> > up all
> > > > > of a
> > > > > > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I
> > have two
> > > > > bad IAC
> > > > > > > valves.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break
> > down and
> > > > > take it
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see
> > what
> > > > > some of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > readings are.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle
> > speed
> > > > > control
> > > > > > > unit(under
> > > > > > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of
> > libertys with
> > > > > idle
> > > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of
> > 10......on
> > > > > a select
> > > > > > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it
> > normally falls
> > > > > in the
> > > > > > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on
> > the a/f
> > > > > meter
> > > > > > > and tps
> > > > > > > > switch???
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > >
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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