legacycentral bbs

Hi all, recently run into some really cold weather ( for Aberdeen anyway ) -10 deg c etc.. & 1992 legacy 2.2 injection auto has become a real bitch to start, checked for spark & all ok ( re previous post especially of VRG3 is watching ! )

Sounds like no fuel, eventually will fire with throttle floored & loads of turning over , barely catches at full throttle but if held after maybe 20seconds starts to clear its throat. sometimes it just will not start untill ambient temperature goes up to normal levels which is obviously not a lot of use.

limited checking ive done on the site suggests I should replace fuel filter & check the aic & clean it, also possibly a coolant temperature sensor problem ? am I on the right track ? once again desperate , thanks in advance, Stephen from Aberdeen

Is there any chance you're using too heavy a weight of motor oil? That can sometimes cause too much drag especially at temperatures that low.

I had trouble with my car being hard to start at temperatures around -10 degrees too, especially if the engine wasn't completely cold. The coolant temperature sensor was reading too high for some reason, making the ECU inject less fuel than it should have. Replacing the sensor solved the problem in my case.

On US-spec 2.2 liter engines the sensor is part number 22630AA041 and it lists for $25US. I'm pretty sure it's the same for your car. If you decide to replace it but the price on your side of the pond is really high, send me a PM; I have a spare new sensor that I might be able to ship you for a total cost less than a local dealer.

I wouldn't worry about the IAC valve yet because if holding the throttle open doesn't help then the IAC valve probably isn't at fault. Though Subaru does say never to press the throttle more than a little bit to aid starting. Have you tried pressing it only a quarter of the way down?

And it couldn't hurt to replace the fuel filter anyway.

PS - Did you ever find out the problem with your 91's ignition?

Thanks again for your advise VRG3, im using 10w40 engine oil & have tried many different levels of throttle but the only one which even sounds close to firing is pedal to the floor , like I say if its a warm day starts first time every time no problem , sound like it could be the coolant temp sensor as you suggest.

Have purchased a new fuel filter (I guess its in the engine bay & obvious !)
& not in the fuel tank like a saab ( I hope ! )

Coolant temp is screwed into the block around the rear ( bulkhead ) area ?

I'm downloading a copy of some manual pages I found on the web hopefully these will confirm for sure component locations but im on a really slow connection so have to wait & see.

I plan to replace the filter tonight when I get home ( wife left the car & got a lift to work this morning ) snow on the ground, minimal lighting etc.. oh the joys of motoring !!.

Any advise such as fill the filter with fuel before installation etc.. ? so I can keep this job as easy as possible. Next would be checking the coolant sensor supplies & resistances. If I just disconnect it ( the sensor ) does the ECU assume a generic setting which may work or does it go nuts because theres no signal from unit ?

Thanks again,

Stephen from Aberdeen

P.S. Tried ECU swap from non functioning manual into AUTO, car continued to run !!! so I'm afraid I'm totally stuck here too !! actually ended up buying myself another Saab 9000 ( £250 ) to keep me going till I can sort the Scoobie's , I guess I just cant leave them alone ( saabs ) but for that kind of money I had couldnt say no. also I need to travel over 100miles a day to work so immediate fix required.
Still want to fix the manual but restoring the auto to starting in the mornings is more critical.

My driveway looks like a scrapyard ...................

Hmm... Subaru does say 10W40 is good enough, but also does say 5W30 can be used below freezing temperatures if avoid sustained high-speed driving. But your oil probably isn't the problem.

The fuel filter you'll replace is on the left strut tower. It should be pretty clear when you're holding the new one in your hand. It'll make the job cleaner if you relieve fuel pressure before starting -- remove the access panel for the fuel pump and disconnect its electrical connector. Then crank the engine for 10 seconds or so. I also recommend hose pliers; they have rounded jaws so they won't damage hoses as easily as regular pliers.

The coolant temperature sensor is screwed into the water manifold, which is directly above the block. It's on the right side of the engine and has a brown 2-pin connector. If you look under your inlet manifold you should see it.

If you disconnect the temperature sensor I think the ECU will assume a certain temperature which is unlikely to be low enough to start your car at -10 degrees. You could try it though.

I'm afraid I can't give you good advice on how to test your sensor. It is part of a voltage divider circuit (the other resistor is built into the ECU) so the voltage you measure depends on the ECU. The manuals for US models say that you should measure 0.7 to 1.0 volts on the hot side of the sensor (and 0 on the ground side) when the engine is fully warm. It seems to me, though, that 0.3 volts is a lot of wiggle room.

£250 for a Saab 9000? That's not too bad... I just hope you don't have to do much work on it yourself.

I'd say do the coolant temp sensor....it's cheap and relatively easy to replace.

You'll find pics of various sensors on my site
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... injectors/

as well as the coolant temp sensor
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_2477.JPG

There are links to manuals and other such info in the stuff you need to know forum. here's the link http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... ual_scans/

Do you give it a few extra seconds with the ignition on before engaging the starter? I find this helped this winter when I had a similar problem (-40F) with wind chill.

Steve

Flooring the throttle shouldnt be needed, maybe your IAC is also damaged. It has a temperature spring for cold starts and the electronic portion is known to get gunked up.

Personally Id replaced the temperature sensor (ECU not gauge) and oxyegen sensor first.

thanks for your responces guys,

as I kinda expected when I got to the car last night it started 1st try with no throttle ( admitedly a bit warmer than in the morning ) !! grrrr

Changed filter for new one ( nice easy job didnt bother killing pump etc just carefull with a cloth. ) will order new coolant temp sensor today & test resistance values of old sensor tonight ( should have done it last night but couldnt find the multimeter !! )

I'm waiting for a call to tell me whether the car started or not in the next couple of hours, ill let U know how I get on.

Thanks again,

Stephen from Aberdeen

Hi all, well when I got to the Subie last night same no start condition, pulled out coolant temp sensor & tested as follows

straight from car ( around 3 deg C ) 4.01Kohms , warmed up by hand ( possibly 20 deg C ) 2.5Kohms which sounds about right, stuck sensor in the freezer for 20 mins to drop temp real low ( around 0 deg C ) reading around 5 Kohms..........

Replaced coolant sensor, still no start, scratched head for a while, pulled plugs ( again ) & cleaned ( very sooty ! ) checked for spark at 4 points all ok, replaced plugs & car fired up first time instantly ??????

Ok now I'm totally confused ?????

Tried car again this morning ( very cold again prob -5 deg C ) started 1st time ? at least for me no coughing or spluttering. Now at work ( running cheapo Saab ! ) waiting for the wife to call in a couple of hours with "it BL__DY wont start again" complaint.

Gotta say one of the main reasons I tried to move away from Saabs ( appart from no 4x4 ) at least in my budget, was expecting relatively simple maintenance from a less computer orientated engine system ( looks like I may have missjudged that one ).

Am I correct in assuming that given when it runs its runs well & that every time I check for a spark there is one, its unlikely there is a problem with the pulleys or sensors carrying ignition related signals ( or any other ignition component ).

Any ideas ?

Thanks in advance,

you really should just replace plugs. They're cheap...if there's a problem that you didn't notice....it goes away......plus the gasket doesn't seal right once it's removed.

don't lose faith yet stephen, I'm sure it's something simple like the plugs or a different senosr. And yes you are correct in assuming that when it runs, it RUNS! Good luck with it.