legacycentral bbs

Forgive me if this is in the wrong forum...but there isn't a general forum so I figured "engine" made the most sense. I'm not asking this to be humored. I bought a legacy sport that I'm keeping stock as a daily driver and I'm in the process of parting out my WRX so I can buy another legacy sport to build and use for racing only. This isn't something I'm dreaming about doing years from now...I'm going to take the money from the WRX and build a legacy sport up all at once in the next month or 2.

For the driveline, I've got a 5mt tranny with STi Type RA internals and I'll swap in another rear end that's 4.11. I've got the brakes planned...and there seem to be plenty of good suspension parts for the car. My concern is getting the reliable power that I want. So...

What's going to be the easiest way to get to 300whp on a legacy sport sedan? I was thinking a head refresh and new shortblock for starters. Would a USDM STi ej257 block bolt up and match up well enough compressionwise? What else would I need to make that work? Or should I just put a new 2.2g block in?

I was planning on using a FMIC to avoid heat soak. I understand I'll probably have to just buy an IC and get the piping custom fabbed.

Then comes the turbo, and this is where it seems to get tricky. A bolt-on turbo upgrade allows using the stock intake and wrx compatible exhaust, which makes things easy, but the only bolt-on turbo upgrade I've seen is the early euro wrx/sti 16g. I'm guessing that won't get me to 300whp safely on 93 octane. Or will it? I'd rather not just clip the crap out of it to get the top end. Is it effective cost and performancewise to get the core of the 16g replaced with an 18g core so it still bolts up? Are there other bolt-on turbos that I just don't know about?

I don't mind getting custom IC and intake piping made if I have to...does that open any doors to other turbos that bolt onto the downpipe/uppipe?

Or would I be better off going with a totally custom exhaust, IC, intake, setup and just pick any turbo I want?

I'm open to suggestions. My budget for this is not huge...if it was I'd just get Ultimate Racing's bolt-on t3/t04e kit for $3500 and be done with it.

thanks for any sugestions and guidance you can give me. I know a bunch about the 02+ WRX's...but very little about the legacy sport.

i would use the usdm 2.5 sti motor if you have it, since it will probably have forged internals and nice cams, then upgrade fuel pump and possibly injectors with a rising rate fuel pressure reg, use a garrett GT28rs turbo, and plumb it through your FMIC, you'll have a weapon, it will easily go past 300whp on 19-20psi.

a ej257 will not make 300 reliable whp without a well tuned stand alone ecu imho.if it were me I would keep the 22g first do maintanence and make sure the motor is in good working order. then the first thing I would buy would be a stand alone ecu (have it tuned well) a bigger turbo (something along the lines of a vf 23,22 34, tdo5) and then a fuel system to support it. an intercooler and a 2.5 or 3.0 turbo back exhaust. this will make at least 300 very reliable whp.
I can supply all of these parts if you are interested.
if you are wanting to start with a new block a 257 would be fine (they seem to be a couple hundred less than the 22g's) but the same componantry applies. heads would be next after you do this. but really the stock heads work fine for me. (up to around 450 hp)

getting a 2.5 sti longblock isn't an option...too expensive. i was talking about buying the shortblock which is cheap and getting the legacy turbo heads that come in the car refreshed...so I wouldn't have the cams from the sti motor.

I've got a wallbro fuel pump from my wrx that would work so that's covered.

I'll need injectors like you said. Since that turbo is a garrett its not going to bolt on so that would be a totally custom route. If I go totally custom there's a myriad of turbos that could meet my needs.

I'm hoping there's an easier way...and I'm looking for specifics of the parts I'll need and stuff that will need done to make it work.

you'll need a ECU anyways thats why i didn't mention it, just like a 3" exhaust, if you want bolt on, go for a VF22, VF34 or TD05, personally I would go bigger as they will run out of puff with a 2.5, check to see if your heads will fit on the new block - I doubt it.

vf22 and vf34 don't work with the intake piping on the legacy sport since they don't have the 90 degree inlet though.

on the tdo5h that's the 16g i mentioned that is bolt-on and I am considering it. If I put the 2.5L on I'd go with something bigger for sure.

That's the thing that's different about legacies, you cant find parts like you can FOR the wrx. We're a DIY crowd.

keep the ej22t motor, get what kelley siad ecu and injectors put a wrx turbo with race wrx headers, port the heads get a huge front mount intercooler and stright pipe 3" with the open down pipe for the waste gate. you will have over 300hp and it will last a very long time.

Kelley was running (like he said up in the 400 hp range reliably) a vf23 I believe. It didn't have the 90 degree elbow. The TD05 will bolt up, but work needs to be done on the coolant and oil lines IIRC. Just realize that whatever you do, our cars do NOT have bolt on parts. The intercoolers that came on our cars in other coutries don't even "bolt on." They do, but there is issues with plumbing and all that. However you do it, there is going to be a level of DIY in there. It's all a matter of how much your willing to do.

Yea, there is almost no dedicated aftermarket for the Turbo Legacy.

Aside from the C.E.S exhaust and the Whiteline sway bars, I don't know of anything that is "Subaru Legacy Sport Sedan" specific. Everything else is an adapted WRX version or something that is purely home brewed.

rsstiboy wrote:i would use the usdm 2.5 sti motor if you have it, since it will probably have forged internals and nice cams, then upgrade fuel pump and possibly injectors with a rising rate fuel pressure reg, use a garrett GT28rs turbo, and plumb it through your FMIC, you'll have a weapon, it will easily go past 300whp on 19-20psi.

You are correct about the cams/heads, which are better than the turbo legacies, but the internals are NOT forged. The ej22t is a MUCH better block, IMO. If you're going hybrid, I would get a set of Sti v7 heads/cams, which flow better than the USDM heads and cams.

LegacySport4L wrote:vf22 and vf34 don't work with the intake piping on the legacy sport since they don't have the 90 degree inlet though.

on the tdo5h that's the 16g i mentioned that is bolt-on and I am considering it. If I put the 2.5L on I'd go with something bigger for sure.

I would go with the td05. One of the vendors on here is researching options for upgrades to 18 and 20g compressors.

tuneable engine management and catless exhaust are a given for this project...sorry I should have mentioned that before. some good info here...thanks folks...keep it coming. I missed out on the autronic you were selling Kelley...but you said you would be selling something else now...what is it?

If I use a WRX turbo it would be a bolt-on 18g or Green from forced performance probably...I have a VF30 sitting here but that would run out of steam up top especially on a 2.2L. Using a WRX bolt-on turbo may actually make the IC piping easier because of where the outlet is. My concern with that setup is the intake piping. It doesn't have the 90 degree inlet so how do I make it work?

I know I could buy another intake manifold and cut sections out of it and have them welded onto mine to jack it up off the heads so I can fit a WRX intake pipe under the manifold, but is there a better way? I'm thinking that could easily create a disparity in flow between the runners.

As far as the bottom end of the 2.2T goes...will that take 300whp all day long? How about 400whp? If I put a Green turbo on it I could certainly get there so I want to know what I'm in for. If it requires building I'd rebuild the engine that comes in the car...if not I'll buy a new shortblock from subaru.

See my sticky about the engine at the top of this Engine Forum (read the whole thing), and then tell ME how much power it can take.

I betcha no USDM STi engine can do that reliably.

perfect. thanks. My buddy ran 30psi all day long for a couple years on his legacy turbo which was bone stock except for a homemade wastegate to get 30psi. He has a rally track on his property and he just abused the hell out of it that way for quite a while. It finally failed but I can't believe how long it took. 30psi on a turbo made to run 7 must have thrown an obscene amount of heat and he didn't have an IC. He went through a pile of struts but only one engine.

So I'll buy a brand new 2.2T shortblock and get the heads refreshed...engine plan done.

Your friend ran 30 psi on a bone stock legacy with NO intercooler? Didn't he get detenation at all? After 14 or 15 psi that stock turbo isn't putting out more power anyway, just more heat as far as I know. I don't doubt the car could do it with an intercooler, but without one doesn't seem likely.

Thats WAY out of the effciency range

perfection motorsports will not leave out the bc legacy. there will be many great parts becoming available soon.
one of the ecu's that I mentioned will be available to purchase very soon.
I have one that I am installing on my car next week.
I just want to spend a little time with it so that I will have everything available
that will be needed in one package. plus I want to get a few maps written for them. one thing I know is there will be a plug and play wireing harness available (a very nice wireing harness will be included but it is not plug and play)
kelley from long beach (cruising around in the cayenne)
anybody around here know of anything fun to do tonight or this weekend.

georryan wrote:Your friend ran 30 psi on a bone stock legacy with NO intercooler?

Sorry, but I will not believe this if I saw it with my own two eyes. That is beyond the laws of physics. Unless you found a way to stick a garden hose in a 55-gallon-drum of gasoline and shove it straight down the throttle body, there is no way any engine is going to run 30lbs of boost without an intercooler...

As in your going to be in Long Beach, or you grew up in Long Beach?

If I was in Portland I'd meet ya and find something to do, but I'm not,...so that makes it bit tough.

sorrie, no I am in long beach, california right now for the toyota grand prix.
you around la area?

No, I'm in Sacramento. Sorry. Long Beach is probably a good 8 hours from me. I have several friends down near there. That doesn't help you, though.

subyluvr2212 wrote:

georryan wrote:Your friend ran 30 psi on a bone stock legacy with NO intercooler?

Sorry, but I will not believe this if I saw it with my own two eyes. That is beyond the laws of physics. Unless you found a way to stick a garden hose in a 55-gallon-drum of gasoline and shove it straight down the throttle body, there is no way any engine is going to run 30lbs of boost without an intercooler...

Disconnect the hose to the wastegate actuator and go WOT...you'll see the turbo will easily make 30psi...but that obviously is stupid and dangerous for your engine so I wouldn't recommend it. I don't want to get off track here...running that much boost on the stock turbo is dumb...I was just commenting on the durability of the engine.

Any suggestions on who I should have refresh the factory heads? I see I-speed does it for $450 in labor. I'd have the valve springs replaced too while I'm at it just to be safe.

could the folks who said I should get a wrx compatible turbo please tell me how they were planning me to handle the intake to the turbo?

thanks.

Well, you have to do custom intake plumbing. It's a pain but guys do it. You'll also have to do custom compressor to I/C plumbing.

The only real way to avoid this is to get a TD05-16G with the 90 degree inlet like DeadboltEnterprising is selling in the vendor forum.

Actually, IIRC they (Deadbolt) said that they will change IHI turbos (vf22,23,29,30,34, ect..) to have the 90 degree inlet for $125 USD too, so maybe that would be something you'd want to look into.