legacycentral bbs

Recently I noticed that my ATF was brown and smelled funky. So I took it to Aamco toget it flushed, and they recomended it not be flushed as the transmission is on the way out. The ATF is varnish, and new fluid would turn to varnish within 500 miles. the car has 143xxx on it now. Im not sure what sort of maintenance history the car has, so I dunno how much longer it lasts. The car is pretty clean other than a small amount of rust and a few dents, has full WRX brakes and takeoff wheels, timing belt/front seals 3000 mi ago, blown struts, visibly burns oil on WOT. so do I:
drive it until the tranny dies and part it out
try and sell it now(if so how much do yall think its worth)
drive it till the tranny dies and get an ej20g/5mt front clip to swap(I have the $ but not the space, not all the skills)

How much do you stand to make parting the car out? Worst case is no one buys anything, what's the best case scenario?

If you sell it now, what do you hope you could get for it?

If you drive it till the tranny dies, how long can you be without a car while your super-swap is underway?

200 for the brakes(~8k on em) 200 for the wheels, theyre kinda rough but the tires are at 75%. 300 for the motor, $20 for the trans maybe 100 for the interior(good shape, blue)all the glass is good, doors good, dunno how much those are worth. maybe another 300 for all the other stuff. maybe 1200 all told worst case.
hell maybe Ill throw another 4eat in it and sell for $2000.

I’d slap a new tranny in it… 5MT. I wouldn’t even waste time waiting for it to blow, if it’s indeed inevitable. It took me a solid Friday afternoon through Sunday night to pull the blown 4EAT out, pull a 5MT from the junkyard (with flywheel, driveshaft, rear dif, pedal set and shift linkage) and put the lot in my car. It was definitely worth it.

Why not just spend the money on a flush and see what happens? Or barring that, at the very least, drain and refill the ATF? A good quality ATF3 or quality synthetic can do wonders for tired autos.
You mentioned that the fluid was discolored and smelled funny, but other than that, how does it shift? Any slippage or hesitation?
There exist on this board, a vocal majority, that pretty much have no love for Subaru 4EAT's, but there are a few us (myself included), that actually kinda like 'em.
My tranny was, literally, reborn after a complete flush and AutoRX treatment, followed by the introduction of Amsoil synthetic tranny fluid.
My car currently has 175,000ish thousand miles and the tranny that was questionable, is now performing as solidly as it probably ever did.
Don't despair: a complete fluid flush, followed by regular (let's say every 15,000-20,000) drain intervals is a lot cheaper than a 5MT swap or a new tranny.
Just my 2 cents...

First off, the trans has been working fine. I wanted to flush it because the fluid was brown and smelled like burning.
While I sorta think aamco was being alarmist in saying that the trans is done(since it works fine), they recomended that I not flush the trans. I was ready to give them a chunk of money, and they advised against it.
What they told me is that new ATF has detergents in it that would further the breakdown of the clutch material, and that the fluid would be varnished again within 500 mi. They know more about it than I do...
To those that have experienced a 4eat failure, did it go all at once or was it a gradual thing? aamco told me that 1st gear would be first to go.

I’ve blown 2 4EATs (and never one of my 5MT’s). Both the 4eats went all at once… one while I was turning into my driveway at about 5 mph, and one let loose while I was on the highway at 65 mph (actually, I guess 4th went first in that one, and then 1st and 3rd when I got off the highway… I was able to milk it home in what I assume was 2nd). In both instances the engine revved to near WOT when it happened, and I had nothing on the shift.

I am completely anal about maintenance, and I really saw only minor warnings that these transmissions were tired. I tried every trick in the book when the first one went, including reverse torque converter loading (I don’t even have clue as to whether it works with these or not), and nothing would bring them back. Everyone that I have talked to says the 4EAT’s are pretty weak after ~140k, but I’ve put over twice that on a 5MT. However, many that I have talked to, including some on this board, also say that they lost their transmissions more slowly, rather than in one bang.

I understand that there is an inherent bias within this forum, and people are entitled to their opinions, but you also must consider the grounds for the majority of these opinions. I feel (and have learned) that people prefer the 5MT because it is much more durable and reliable than the 4EAT (aside from the obvious control advantages). I think many of the people on this board tend to drive their vehicles a little harder than the normal person (don’t shoot me, all, just an observation)… but are also very conscious of any changes in their vehicles performance. I trust the people who drive hard and prefer the 5MT more than I trust the people who pussy-foot it; this says to me that the MT has passed the test and the 4EAT has just not cut it.

When performance and torque control are your objectives, there's little doubt that a manual tranny is the way to go. If I had a magic wand, I'd make my cars auto tranny into a 5 speed, for sure.
However, there is absolutely no evidence to support claims that "4EAT’s are pretty weak after ~140k". Dunno where that came from, but it's pretty bogus. It's true that due to the nature and construction of an automatic transmission (i.e, more moving parts, more heat, etc), that it'll eventually fail before a manual tranny, but if you provide regular maintainence, and don't drive around specifically trying to roast your transmission, a 4EAT will provide you with years, and years of service.
One of this boards best contributers, who is now, sadly gone (*salute Ciper* ) was a very big proponent of the 4EAT, in fact.
I'm not suggesting that auto's are better, or more durable beyond 200k or anything inflated like that, but that with regular service and a reasonably conservative foot and driving habits, an auto tranny is almost as good as a manual transmission in terms of longevity.
Getting back to the original post, however, I'll repeat my earlier suggestion based on your latest offering: flush and refill the tranny fluid with a high quality automatic transmission fluid (I'd suggest synthetic if for no other reason that it'll allow your tranny to operate a few degrees cooler). Also, consider installing a tranny cooler -they're cheap and can extend the life of your auto exponentially.
I've heard the following phrase on this board a number of times, so I'll repeat it: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Seems like pretty sound advice to me.

You are absolutely right. And the 4EAT can last an extremely long time, with proper maintenance; I’m sure will live up to expectations. However, if you romp on it just a little too much, it will go. My buddy works in a tranny shop, they get them in all the time at ~140 (well, they used to get more, they’re getting kind of old now). I apologize for my rant, but the title of the post was “what would you do?” You are right though, a preemptive strike against your car (gun slingin’ Bush style) is probably not a good idea.

I do have a tranny cooler. its on the side of the radiator. its not a very big one, and I suggested getting a larger one to the tech. he said the cooler was doing its job, and that it was more the internal seals leaking causing the clutches to slip that was making lots of heat. and surprisingly enough they said that they didnt see particles in the fluid.
gotta figure something out before ski season starts!

Then it sounds like the tech at Aamco (a notoriously bad place to take your car for mechanical work, btw) is pretty clueless.
If the tranny is working fine, then I see no reason why not to perform a flush and fill.
The fact that you do have an external tranny cooler is probably helping you immensly with your current fluid; overheated tranny fluid (read: burnt), looses a lot of it's heat and friction reducing characteristics -you're tranny cooler is most likely reducing the fluid temp to a more stable level, and therefore not overstressing it beyond what it can safely tolerate. Flush and refill it.
Occasionally, on an older, worn auto, people experience problems after performing a flush. The reason is usually because the flushing process removes a lot of the material that adheres to the clutch plates: once that material is gone, there's less clutch pressure and, eventually, there's not enough material anymore and the tranny goes into a death cycle.
Preventitive maintaince is the key here: change the fluid at regular intervals (15-20k -mostly no one ever does this), use high quality fluid, keep the filters clean. If your tranny was doing it's job before the Aamco "techs" decided you needed a new transmission, chances are good that it's probably okay.
Perform the flush, refill it and drive happily.

I agree with the tech, if your fluid is burnt that's usually a sign of overheating, which can lead to internal failure. often times when you do flush it it'll do as elkaboom and I believe someone else said before, give up the goat. Other times it wont. It depends greatly on how it was cared for before. How long ago was it last flushed? How long ago was it last drained an filled? What was the ATF like then? Anything unusual with tranny at all? even VERY minor problems or quirks become MAJOR once you flush it.

I've got 230k on my 91 L wagon. When I got the car 10,000 ago it clunked and bucked when shifting. So I flushed the tranny. And Vwala...it shifts smooth as butter now. But I dont dare floor it...because I know the flexplates/TC are on thier way out. I say go for it, you're sapposed to swap your tranny fluid anyway. If its SO bad that your torque converter is gona go limp...than you only have a few miles left on it anyway.