legacycentral bbs

I used the ECU instructions and codes from Justin's page this morning
and this is what I learned.

When connecting the black wires and performing the base check the
light flashes two error codes. The check engine light does not come
on when car is running.

The codes are:

13 which indicated the Cam Angle Sensor

35 Canister purge solenoid valve

My guess is the Cam Angle Sensor has something to do with timing?

And I have no idea what a Canister purge solenoid valve would be.

When I connected the green connectors and followed Justin's
instructions there were no flashes of the check engine light when I
started the car. I drove the car for a short period and the check
engine light began to flash continuously and about 1 second
intervals.
I was driving out of my subdivision so I may have affected it by a
stop or two so I tried it again and the light did not come on at all.

Any feed back would be welcome. I am going to change plugs today.
The plug wires are original and are on order from the dealer.

Thanks to all for your assistance.

Carl


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Carl, I'm not saying the cam angle sensor ISN'T bad, but if the car had a
misfire, due to bad plugs or wires or whatever, its possible the ECU
interpreted it as a bad signal from the cam angle sensor. The new Legacys
actually have a "misfire" code for each cylinder, but the older ones
didn't(not that I know of anyway).

The CPC solenoid code usually comes up in just about every first gen Legacy
at one time or another. It's the solenoid that simply allows fuel vapors to
be absorbed by the charcoal canister, or lets them re-enter they sytem to be
burned again. Really not a big deal, especially if the check engine light
doesn't stay on all the time. FYI, it's the little brown solenoid under the
right side intake runners. Should have two vacum lines going in and out of
it.

-Matt


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Andersen <cdanders@tconl.com>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com <BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com>
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000 86 AM
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Latest on Touring Wagon problems


>I used the ECU instructions and codes from Justin's page this morning
>and this is what I learned.
>
>When connecting the black wires and performing the base check the
>light flashes two error codes. The check engine light does not come
>on when car is running.
>
>The codes are:
>
>13 which indicated the Cam Angle Sensor
>
>35 Canister purge solenoid valve
>
>My guess is the Cam Angle Sensor has something to do with timing?
>
>And I have no idea what a Canister purge solenoid valve would be.
>



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--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "matt scicchitano" <nzwrc1@s...>
wrote:
> Carl, I'm not saying the cam angle sensor ISN'T bad, but if the car
had a
> misfire, due to bad plugs or wires or whatever, its possible the ECU
> interpreted it as a bad signal from the cam angle sensor. The new
Legacys
> actually have a "misfire" code for each cylinder, but the older ones
> didn't(not that I know of anyway).
>
> The CPC solenoid code usually comes up in just about every first
gen
Legacy
> at one time or another. It's the solenoid that simply allows fuel
vapors to
> be absorbed by the charcoal canister, or lets them re-enter they
sytem to be
> burned again. Really not a big deal, especially if the check engine
light
> doesn't stay on all the time. FYI, it's the little brown solenoid
under the
> right side intake runners. Should have two vacum lines going in and
out of
> it.
>
> -Matt
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Andersen <cdanders@t...>
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com <BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com>
> Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000 86 AM
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Latest on Touring Wagon problems
>
>One thing I have found on the purge solenoid is that they will go
intermittant. A way of checking for this is to connect a multimeter
on
the risistance setting to the solenoid after removing it and holding
it with one hand press rearward on the part of the solenoid where the
leads connect to it. This will usually make a imtermittant solenoid
show up if bad but some require a bit of heat also. This is because
when they made the coils they brought the internal wires up to the
contacts without leaving any slack in the wire for expansion when the
solenoid is placed in service and they separate. On the cam sensor I
think it is bad or is going bad because the way it is diagnosed is
that the ECU has to "see" no signal from it but a signal from the
crank sensor corresponding two two rotations of the cam before giving
a code 13. Also some ECUs will look for this signal in a "window"
where this signal should be to prevent a false error code but I am
not
sure of this on the first gen ECUs. A friend had a sensor go bad on
him and he purchased a kit of two sensors from Northeast Auto for
$40.00 but this was on a late model. If you want me to check on these
let me know.


> >I used the ECU instructions and codes from Justin's page this
morning
> >and this is what I learned.
> >
> >When connecting the black wires and performing the base check the
> >light flashes two error codes. The check engine light does not
come
> >on when car is running.
> >
> >The codes are:
> >
> >13 which indicated the Cam Angle Sensor
> >
> >35 Canister purge solenoid valve
> >
> >My guess is the Cam Angle Sensor has something to do with timing?
> >
> >And I have no idea what a Canister purge solenoid valve would be.
> >


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Matt,

I guess I am wondering if the cam angle sensor is intermittant causing my acceleration problems. I am assuming it may cause timing problems which would make it back fire and/or die.


What do you think?


Carl


matt scicchitano wrote:


Carl, I'm not saying the cam angle sensor ISN'T bad, but if the car had a
misfire, due to bad plugs or wires or whatever, its possible the ECU
interpreted it as a bad signal from the cam angle sensor. The new Legacys
actually have a "misfire" code for each cylinder, but the older ones
didn't(not that I know of anyway).

The CPC solenoid code usually comes up in just about every first gen Legacy
at one time or another. It's the solenoid that simply allows fuel vapors to
be absorbed by the charcoal canister, or lets them re-enter they sytem to be
burned again. Really not a big deal, especially if the check engine light
doesn't stay on all the time. FYI, it's the little brown solenoid under the
right side intake runners. Should have two vacum lines going in and out of
it.


-Matt



-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Andersen <cdanders@tconl.com>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com <BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com>
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000 86 AM
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Latest on Touring Wagon problems



>I used the ECU instructions and codes from Justin's page this morning
>and this is what I learned.
>
>When connecting the black wires and performing the base check the
>light flashes two error codes. The check engine light does not come
>on when car is running.
>
>The codes are:
>
>13 which indicated the Cam Angle Sensor
>
>35 Canister purge solenoid valve
>
>My guess is the Cam Angle Sensor has something to do with timing?
>
>And I have no idea what a Canister purge solenoid valve would be.
>




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After Alan explained the cam angle sensor and the ECU in good detail, and your actual findings with the car, it makes sense. Since they are a breeze to change, it would be nice if you could pick even a used one up and try it out for a while. That's one way for sure you can tell if it's a bit flakie or not, providing you don't get another bad one :^) I don't think they cost a fortune new from Subaru anyway, I could be wrong though.

-Matt




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The idea of a used one might be a good idea for us Matt I have 1
crank and 1 cam in my small parts kit as this is one that while
somewhat rare will leave you sitting along side the road. And we all
know things like this usually happen on Sunday 13 miles west of East
Clambake SD.


--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "matt scicchitano" <nzwrc1@s...>
wrote:
> After Alan explained the cam angle sensor and the ECU in good
detail, and your actual findings with the car, it makes sense. Since
they are a breeze to change, it would be nice if you could pick even
a
used one up and try it out for a while. That's one way for sure you
can tell if it's a bit flakie or not, providing you don't get another
bad one :^) I don't think they cost a fortune new from Subaru
anyway,
I could be wrong though.
>
> -Matt


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I'll check with the local dealer in the morning. I will be surprised if he has one.

matt scicchitano wrote:


After Alan explained the cam angle sensor and the ECU in good detail, and your actual findings with the car, it makes sense. Since they are a breeze to change, it would be nice if you could pick even a used one up and try it out for a while. That's one way for sure you can tell if it's a bit flakie or not, providing you don't get another bad one :^) I don't think they cost a fortune new from Subaru anyway, I could be wrong though. -Matt




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When changing these plugs I discovered one of them, "drivers side rear", had what appears to be leakage between the metal nut and the porcelin insulator. There is some black carbon deposits on the porcelin above the metal nut.

NGK plugs.


Any one ever see this before?


Thanks,
Carl


Carl Andersen wrote:


I used the ECU instructions and codes from Justin's page this morning
and this is what I learned.

When connecting the black wires and performing the base check the
light flashes two error codes. The check engine light does not come
on when car is running.


The codes are:


13 which indicated the Cam Angle Sensor


35 Canister purge solenoid valve


My guess is the Cam Angle Sensor has something to do with timing?


And I have no idea what a Canister purge solenoid valve would be.


When I connected the green connectors and followed Justin's
instructions there were no flashes of the check engine light when I
started the car. I drove the car for a short period and the check
engine light began to flash continuously and about 1 second
intervals.
I was driving out of my subdivision so I may have affected it by a
stop or two so I tried it again and the light did not come on at all.


Any feed back would be welcome. I am going to change plugs today.
The plug wires are original and are on order from the dealer.


Thanks to all for your assistance.


Carl



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BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com





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matt scicchitano wrote:


After Alan explained the cam angle sensor and the ECU in good detail, and your actual findings with the car, it makes sense. Since they are a breeze to change, it would be nice if you could pick even a used one up and try it out for a while. That's one way for sure you can tell if it's a bit flakie or not, providing you don't get another bad one :^) I don't think they cost a fortune new from Subaru anyway, I could be wrong though. -Matt



Well they don't cost a fortune..... only $187. Including tax of course..

I thought about switching the one from my 91 wagon but decided as a true 'do it yourselfer' I should trust the computer. If the dealer did the deed the bill would probably be over $400 so I am saving money hand over fist!


I will change it this afternoon.


Another question.... How does a person reset the ECU to get rid of the errors?


Thanks again,


Carl





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Yikes! I really had no idea they were that much. My apologies. Maybe it was the 95+ sensors that aren't so much since they are just the sensor, no wire attached like ours. Good luck with it.

As for resetting the ECU, I usually just disconnect the negative battery terminal overnight. I figure that is plenty long enough and the car is not being used anyway so it works out. Some say as little as a few minutes is good but there's no question that a few hours will do it for sure :^)

-Matt




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