Swapping the turbo. How to?
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:41 pm
Since i'm always asking questions, i thought i make an attempt at giving something back to this site.
I found Josh's parts manual scans, which were a great help, but doing a search for swapping a turbo doesn't really return anything other then photo's of the job finished, or speculation on what turbo's are compatible.
Sort of want to document this so that if anyone else wants to learn or needs to know how to do it, they have something they can reference. If anyone else has points to add or can answer some simple questions, please feel free.
I have a vf34, usdm wrx intercooler, blitz BOV, usdm wrx coolant tank.
Here is a brief list of the issues i knew about when i started to think about this, as well as a few i have discovered along the way.
1. A/C is a must for my daily driver... but the hose that leaves the condensor reaches the pitchmount and then turns into a hard pipe, which for some reason dog-legs up before descending back down to the firewall and dryer, which is in the way of sitting an intercooler in the car.
2. Turbo needs a 90degree elbow to fit on the inlet.
3. intercooler won't fit between TB and firewall.
4. Stock coolant tank is in the way of the intercooler.
5. Stock y-pipe doesn't look like it will fit. Bottom of the "Y" appears to be too short to reach outlet of the turbo.
6. hood scoop air diverter (to chimney) won't fit on top of intercooler.
7. Chimney may get in the way of the intercooler.
8. Ignitor pedestal sits on the pitchmount, in the way of the intercooler.
9. hoses between turbo and coolant tank look to be too short.
10. bolts studs for the downpipe on vf34 don't match my spare stock turbo... the pattern is the same, 2 holes on top 3 studs on the bottom, but the middle one is missing or receives a bolt instead.
11. Coolant lines and oil line need to be transferred from one turbo to the next.
12. HOW do you disconnect the bottom coolant line? talking about the huge big one at the bottom?
Here are the solutions i found (or think i have at least).
1. This appears to have been my biggest hurdle.
After questioning a few members on this board, as well as local friends, i discovered that the a/c lines were different every year.
If you were lucky enough, your lines can just be "pushed down" below the intercooler or even the pitchmount (i tried, but i could not get it low enough) or better yet, the system was long gone.
If your system is already depressurized and you don't care about A/C, your job is that much easier and cheaper to deal with. If it's in the way, remove it.
I have had to retrofit a new fitting for the A/C, and since R12 is no longer legal, i had to convert the system to R34. I now have a hose that runs from the condensor all the way to the firewall (still using the L-piping from the condensor and the one into the firewall). Since depressurizing the R12 is only possible with certain tools, and since i wanted it working properly afterword, i had this done at a local A/C shop. Total cost was $400. Originally was estimated at less, but the pressure fittings cost more then expected. I had another shop that was going to do it, but after being dicked around with for 2 months on timing, i went elsewhere and had it done in about 3hrs.
This was done at Warren's Automobiles in Cambridge.
Very professional.
I have since put this hose under my pitchmount where it's completely out of the way.
2. I purchased a 90 degree silicone elbow from Performance Improvements. It is a Vibrant Performance Part # 2741B (B is a colour code... mine is blue i have no idea's what other colours are available - $70CAD) It is 2.25" across Inner Diameter. It fits snuggly over the inlet lip and with a hose clap will be perfect. The hose itself is about 4" long on either side of the bend.
This will need to be attached to the stock (for now) intake pipe. the intake pipe will sit inside the silicone pipe. If needs be i will find a reducer or a metal male to male adapter with a lip.
3. I have cut the outlet of the intercooler about a 1/2" this still leaves enough room to fit on a hose (and hose clamp) between it and the TB.
the intercooler now fits in with a approx 1.5 cm clearance to the firewall. Will probably put some silicone material as a wedge to absorb any vibration or noise. No mounting brackets will be needed as the intercooler will be resting on the pitch mount.
4. Replaced this with WRX coolant tank. Stock one's nipple break very easily or so i've been told. I used a coolant level tester (like a doctors blood pressure tester) to empty the coolant tank prior to removing the hoses. Squeeze the ball, stick the hose in the coolant tank, stop squeezing the ball, the vaccuum created by the motion will suck the coolant up and out. Repeated this quite a bit until i couldn't remove any more fluid. Be aware, there was still enough fluid in the old coolant tank to make a little mess. Be aware the hose at the bottom of the tank goes directly to the block. Depending on the angle of your car as it's parked this might continue to gush coolant, if one part of the engine is higher then it. Parking with the front of your car downwards might make a better idea, then the otherway round, which is the way i had it.
FYI: A day or 2 later i found that this hose eventually split from the new angle, age of the old rubber, and probably the force used to fit it onto the new nipple. I ended up having to perform an emergency hose replacement in my office parking lot. This turned out to be messier then the original coolant tank swap! I couldn't pull the hose off the pipe that comes from the block, so i ended up using a male to male barbed adapter and new hose to attach it back to the coolant tank. Along with clamps at each connection point.
5. picked up a 2nd 90 degree elbow at the same time as the other. Vibrant Perfomance part # 2741B (2" ID - $70CAD) to go from the turbo outlet to the Y-pipe. If needs be i will cut the y-pipe before it connects to the turbo outlet and fit this one on and over it. Not sure how well this will work as I don't want it to "blow off" under pressure (obviously i will clamp it). If i find a proper fitting to go between the two i will post the part #.
6. I figure there are 2 options.
A - remove it, done.
B - i may try and cut it apart and make some lipping to attach some weather stipping (silicone stuff at the bottom of your front door, very similar in material and shape to the isolator material on a wrx air splitter) to isolate the air going to the intercooler. I have no idea how long i will run it like this, because i have an 02 hood scoop that needs to be mounted and will probably cause issues with the inside hood framing.
7. during test fittings, the intercooler "just" cleared this. But during the process of inspecting the turbo connections and mount points, I took the old Chimney off and what few remaining bolts were left after the 3" downpipe swap last year, i snapped 2 out of 4. It may or may not be going back in. I'll have to see about the heat and any issues it causes.
8. This is easily unbolted... I plan on mounting in a downwards facing position on the side of the pitch mount... it will be clear of any obstructions and the inlet pipes of the intercooler should come into contact with it... If anyone has any different suggestions, please feel free to make them
9. Going to lengthen them. The plan is for the coolant tank to between the intercooler and the gas filter, sitting ontop of the a/c line hoses. ziptied for now...
10. will either find a replacement bolt stud from the spare stock turbo i have or will use a new bolt. Picked up a new set of gaskets for the turbo.
down-pipe gasket subaru part # 44022aa180
up-pipe gasket subaru part # 44022aa150
think it was $30CAD for the pair.
11. I have already swapped the coolant and oil lines over from a spare stock turbo. don't forget the washer-gaskets for the bolts.
Make sure the holes in the bolts line up with the pipes... otherwise the coolant lines won't do too much in terms of... cooling. I marked the hole direction on the face of the bolt, and ended up using a breaker bar to get them tight enough to line up...
12. I have no idea, would prefer not to make an enormous mess.
seeing as the place that put the downpipe in for me (installed a high flow cat at the same time) broke one of the downpipe turbo bolts, and installed "another kind of bolt" which isn't seated all the way and looks like it will probably break when i try to remove it... i may have them install the turbo for me... Or Subaru themselves. Haven't quite decided yet.
It's something i would rather do myself for the experience, but at the same time, i'd like to get it done quicker then not, and both of these places should have the right parts in case i missed something.
If this is something everyone else knows how to do and this is useless information, feel free to kill the post.
I found Josh's parts manual scans, which were a great help, but doing a search for swapping a turbo doesn't really return anything other then photo's of the job finished, or speculation on what turbo's are compatible.
Sort of want to document this so that if anyone else wants to learn or needs to know how to do it, they have something they can reference. If anyone else has points to add or can answer some simple questions, please feel free.
I have a vf34, usdm wrx intercooler, blitz BOV, usdm wrx coolant tank.
Here is a brief list of the issues i knew about when i started to think about this, as well as a few i have discovered along the way.
1. A/C is a must for my daily driver... but the hose that leaves the condensor reaches the pitchmount and then turns into a hard pipe, which for some reason dog-legs up before descending back down to the firewall and dryer, which is in the way of sitting an intercooler in the car.
2. Turbo needs a 90degree elbow to fit on the inlet.
3. intercooler won't fit between TB and firewall.
4. Stock coolant tank is in the way of the intercooler.
5. Stock y-pipe doesn't look like it will fit. Bottom of the "Y" appears to be too short to reach outlet of the turbo.
6. hood scoop air diverter (to chimney) won't fit on top of intercooler.
7. Chimney may get in the way of the intercooler.
8. Ignitor pedestal sits on the pitchmount, in the way of the intercooler.
9. hoses between turbo and coolant tank look to be too short.
10. bolts studs for the downpipe on vf34 don't match my spare stock turbo... the pattern is the same, 2 holes on top 3 studs on the bottom, but the middle one is missing or receives a bolt instead.
11. Coolant lines and oil line need to be transferred from one turbo to the next.
12. HOW do you disconnect the bottom coolant line? talking about the huge big one at the bottom?
Here are the solutions i found (or think i have at least).
1. This appears to have been my biggest hurdle.
After questioning a few members on this board, as well as local friends, i discovered that the a/c lines were different every year.
If you were lucky enough, your lines can just be "pushed down" below the intercooler or even the pitchmount (i tried, but i could not get it low enough) or better yet, the system was long gone.
If your system is already depressurized and you don't care about A/C, your job is that much easier and cheaper to deal with. If it's in the way, remove it.
I have had to retrofit a new fitting for the A/C, and since R12 is no longer legal, i had to convert the system to R34. I now have a hose that runs from the condensor all the way to the firewall (still using the L-piping from the condensor and the one into the firewall). Since depressurizing the R12 is only possible with certain tools, and since i wanted it working properly afterword, i had this done at a local A/C shop. Total cost was $400. Originally was estimated at less, but the pressure fittings cost more then expected. I had another shop that was going to do it, but after being dicked around with for 2 months on timing, i went elsewhere and had it done in about 3hrs.
This was done at Warren's Automobiles in Cambridge.
Very professional.
I have since put this hose under my pitchmount where it's completely out of the way.
2. I purchased a 90 degree silicone elbow from Performance Improvements. It is a Vibrant Performance Part # 2741B (B is a colour code... mine is blue i have no idea's what other colours are available - $70CAD) It is 2.25" across Inner Diameter. It fits snuggly over the inlet lip and with a hose clap will be perfect. The hose itself is about 4" long on either side of the bend.
This will need to be attached to the stock (for now) intake pipe. the intake pipe will sit inside the silicone pipe. If needs be i will find a reducer or a metal male to male adapter with a lip.
3. I have cut the outlet of the intercooler about a 1/2" this still leaves enough room to fit on a hose (and hose clamp) between it and the TB.
the intercooler now fits in with a approx 1.5 cm clearance to the firewall. Will probably put some silicone material as a wedge to absorb any vibration or noise. No mounting brackets will be needed as the intercooler will be resting on the pitch mount.
4. Replaced this with WRX coolant tank. Stock one's nipple break very easily or so i've been told. I used a coolant level tester (like a doctors blood pressure tester) to empty the coolant tank prior to removing the hoses. Squeeze the ball, stick the hose in the coolant tank, stop squeezing the ball, the vaccuum created by the motion will suck the coolant up and out. Repeated this quite a bit until i couldn't remove any more fluid. Be aware, there was still enough fluid in the old coolant tank to make a little mess. Be aware the hose at the bottom of the tank goes directly to the block. Depending on the angle of your car as it's parked this might continue to gush coolant, if one part of the engine is higher then it. Parking with the front of your car downwards might make a better idea, then the otherway round, which is the way i had it.
FYI: A day or 2 later i found that this hose eventually split from the new angle, age of the old rubber, and probably the force used to fit it onto the new nipple. I ended up having to perform an emergency hose replacement in my office parking lot. This turned out to be messier then the original coolant tank swap! I couldn't pull the hose off the pipe that comes from the block, so i ended up using a male to male barbed adapter and new hose to attach it back to the coolant tank. Along with clamps at each connection point.
5. picked up a 2nd 90 degree elbow at the same time as the other. Vibrant Perfomance part # 2741B (2" ID - $70CAD) to go from the turbo outlet to the Y-pipe. If needs be i will cut the y-pipe before it connects to the turbo outlet and fit this one on and over it. Not sure how well this will work as I don't want it to "blow off" under pressure (obviously i will clamp it). If i find a proper fitting to go between the two i will post the part #.
6. I figure there are 2 options.
A - remove it, done.
B - i may try and cut it apart and make some lipping to attach some weather stipping (silicone stuff at the bottom of your front door, very similar in material and shape to the isolator material on a wrx air splitter) to isolate the air going to the intercooler. I have no idea how long i will run it like this, because i have an 02 hood scoop that needs to be mounted and will probably cause issues with the inside hood framing.
7. during test fittings, the intercooler "just" cleared this. But during the process of inspecting the turbo connections and mount points, I took the old Chimney off and what few remaining bolts were left after the 3" downpipe swap last year, i snapped 2 out of 4. It may or may not be going back in. I'll have to see about the heat and any issues it causes.
8. This is easily unbolted... I plan on mounting in a downwards facing position on the side of the pitch mount... it will be clear of any obstructions and the inlet pipes of the intercooler should come into contact with it... If anyone has any different suggestions, please feel free to make them
9. Going to lengthen them. The plan is for the coolant tank to between the intercooler and the gas filter, sitting ontop of the a/c line hoses. ziptied for now...
10. will either find a replacement bolt stud from the spare stock turbo i have or will use a new bolt. Picked up a new set of gaskets for the turbo.
down-pipe gasket subaru part # 44022aa180
up-pipe gasket subaru part # 44022aa150
think it was $30CAD for the pair.
11. I have already swapped the coolant and oil lines over from a spare stock turbo. don't forget the washer-gaskets for the bolts.
Make sure the holes in the bolts line up with the pipes... otherwise the coolant lines won't do too much in terms of... cooling. I marked the hole direction on the face of the bolt, and ended up using a breaker bar to get them tight enough to line up...
12. I have no idea, would prefer not to make an enormous mess.
seeing as the place that put the downpipe in for me (installed a high flow cat at the same time) broke one of the downpipe turbo bolts, and installed "another kind of bolt" which isn't seated all the way and looks like it will probably break when i try to remove it... i may have them install the turbo for me... Or Subaru themselves. Haven't quite decided yet.
It's something i would rather do myself for the experience, but at the same time, i'd like to get it done quicker then not, and both of these places should have the right parts in case i missed something.
If this is something everyone else knows how to do and this is useless information, feel free to kill the post.
