legacycentral bbs

OK, so I'm a total gearhead and after picking up a 91ss (auto unfortunately) for the winter while my 350z is off the road, I discovered the beauty of Subaru and this site. Now I'm totally hooked and after learning how interchangable all subi stuff is, I just have to do this project.

Here's the idea (and I know it's not a new idea)
Find a cheap Impreza Brighton 5sp AWD for about $1,000 with a gazillion miles on it.
Pull the ej22t out of my 91ss and build it to 300hp using as many cheap OEM parts as possible
Find a transmission that will hold it
Bolt it into the Brighton
Do a brake upgrade
Throw some STi wheels on with some suspension upgrades i.e. springs, struts and sway bars

End result: Have a 2500 pound car that will out accelerate a Porsche 911 twin turbo.

So, here are my questions:
1. What do you recommend to get the motor to 300hp on a budget? I'm more interested in low and mid range power than redline power.

2. What transmission should I use? I was thinking 2.5 RS 5sp would be best

3. What's my best bet with the wiring harness? My ss is an auto but the Brighton will be 5sp.

4. Any other issues I need to be aware of?

Thanks to all the gods of all things subaru that share knowledge on this forum. You guys know your stuff!

For 300 Hp, you are going to want a tranny out of a turbo car. It will hold up longer. I would suggest a WRX or JDM Legacy Tranny. They will handle that power no problem. You will want a heavy duty clutch aswell. As far as power goes, you should probably invest in some better flowing heads than what are on your 22T. Ex: DOHC heads and intake manifold. You will need a good size turbo, like a vf22 or vf39, maybe even bigger. Lots of fuel, 550 cc injectors, and a lot of boost. Might aswell get a FMIC!

Good luck man!

Unless you got with an '04+ WRX tranny, they are no stronger than the RS tranny. The RS tranny will hold that power no problem, and can easily be converted to run on a cable clutch like is currently in the car. Going with a WRX or Leggy turbo tranny will require a full hydraulic pull style clutch conversion on the vehcle. Personally, if there's nothing wrong with the tranny in the car, keep it. It's not the best gear ratios, but it's also just as strong as the other trannies unless you start looking at STI stuff or aftermarket gearsets like PPG. I am in the process of putting a 280ps EJ20K into a '95L and I am going to use the stock tranny until I can afford an RA gearset to throw into one of my spare cases...

I agree. Spend your money elsewhere. The bonus to the Brighton is lees weight, thus less stress on the gearbox anyway.

So, you're saying that I should take heads and intake off an ej20t?

Also, the stock brighton trans won't handle that kind of power right? So, do you think my best bet is to buy a JDM ej20t? If I did that, would it be better to use my block because it's .2 liters bigger or should I just be looking to swap in the whole ej20t with 5sp trans? Is it just as easy to get an ej20t to 300hp?

From what I understand, using the usdm 2.2 block is a major plus because you can run off the stock ecu. You can then take the dohc heads and intake manifold off of an EARLY JDM ej20t, or phase I usdm ej25.

The heads flow a lot better and will really help increase power, and will support higher hp levels...


Your stock trans is the same basic trans design for almost every subaru mt made before 04 (I think). Some trannies are slightly stronger than others based on the year and model. Run your tranny until it dies and THEN worry about it...

Danny

Id swap over the harness, and buy a 20g. It'll plug right into the ss harness, will run off the 2.2 ecu no problem, and is friggin bulletproof. Sell the 22t block and you'll probablly make enough money off it to help fund a real turbo. I think doug got about 900 bucks for an empty 22t block off ebay, and you can usually source 20g longblocks for about 500.

20g, vf34/22, FMIC, brighton=lots and lots of fun.

Dont forget your gonna need brakes too.

I'm surprised to hear so much confidence in Subaru trannies. 300hp on a pre-'04 tranny? Really?

Phil, Vikash, and Matt's trannies all disintegrated even though they never saw 250HP (Matt blew two trannies, for that matter). Mine sounds funny at much less power. You might argue that those trannies are old. So... Another friend of mine blew a Forester tranny running no more than 200hp. Sport Compact Car blew their RS tranny when it was still young... did they make it to 300 first? I honestly don't remember, but I doubt it. You even hear stories of kids managing to break new WRX trannies at near stock levels.

You can probably list counter examples of people who did get away with it, but the point is that many people pay the price.

I agree what what you guys said - that he should run whatever tranny he's got until it breaks. But, we should also let him know how much it might cost in the end to run 300hp (i.e. thousands of dollars for gears alone).

Driven poorly, or hard with some mishifts will start the early death, or complete death of a tranny. Not saying a tranny won't die otherwise, it happens, but driving the tranny WELL, helps.

I have made over 100 drag passes on my stock 1990 tranny. I killed it when I mishifted into 2nd gear trying to get into traffic... Then I swapped out some used internals out of a broken case, and its my current tranny with 50-100 drag passes, most of which were 1.8-1.9 seco 60' times..... And its noiseless and never grinds gears.... Maybe I am lucky. haha

I think the major problem with broken trannies is driver error. No person is perfect - even professional drivers make mistakes when shifting. One or two bad misshifts can literally destroy a tranny that is weakly designed in the first place, and has a TON of stress put on it. AWD is a MAJOR stressor on the tranny - ESPECIALLY with a lot of hp, sticky tires and a strong clutch.


You have to remember at some point, that our transmissions carry the same basic design as a transmission that was designed for a 90hp car.

I do believe that shifting itself, and not punching while in gear is responsible for most of the breakages you hear about. Just go easy with the shifting and you *should* be ok for a while...

douglas vincent wrote:Driven poorly, or hard with some mishifts will start the early death, or complete death of a tranny. Not saying a tranny won't die otherwise, it happens, but driving the tranny WELL, helps.

I also drag race with RE92 tires on purpose.... They spin, and therefore axles, trannies, don't snap. Last season I was about 280 at the crank a few times with the nitrous. Usually at 230-240 off nitrous.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but doug, you run 13.5 on 280hp??

I hope you aren't parting out a perfectly good 91 Sport Sedan just because you want an Impreza...

You can pick up a full EJ20G swap with tranny, wiring, and the whole shebang for like $1500 or less...and then just do a full swap that way...which would also be a bit more authentic for the Impreza...

And then you don't ruin another rare Legacy...

Soarer wrote:
End result: Have a 2500 pound car that will out accelerate a Porsche 911 twin turbo.

Oh...and good fuckin luck!!

The 993 TT ran 0-60 in 3.6 seconds, and
the new 997 TT's run 0-60 in 3.2 seconds

Oh jeez. There are NO 993T's anymore. Besides, there not that fast due to gearing before 80mph.

There was a red 96' at the auto show tonight. I took my GF and made "humpy" motions to the back of it. The guy at the booth stood next to me, and proceeded to make the same "humpy" motions. She then made the humpy motions herself. God damn what a hot car.

Yes...that would be the 993 Twin Turbo I would be referring to my freeend!


That is pretty much the only car that I will be gravely disappointed if I don't own before I die...

Kelly wrote:Oh jeez. There are NO 993T's anymore. Besides, there not that fast due to gearing before 80mph.

There was a red 96' at the auto show tonight. I took my GF and made "humpy" motions to the back of it. The guy at the booth stood next to me, and proceeded to make the same "humpy" motions. She then made the humpy motions herself. God damn what a hot car.

fixed

So, the impression that I'm getting is that I can achieve my goals with an ej20t and some intake/turbo/exhaust/fuel work. Will the ej20t handle 300hp? Will the stock trans that is bolted to it handle that power?

If so, how do you suggest I get a stock ej20t to 300hp?

Soarer wrote:So, the impression that I'm getting is that I can achieve my goals with an ej20t and some intake/turbo/exhaust/fuel work. Will the ej20t handle 300hp? Will the stock trans that is bolted to it handle that power?

If so, how do you suggest I get a stock ej20t to 300hp?

If you buy the correct Ej20 to start with, it's very easy to get to 300hp.

A 94-96 EJ20G from a manual tranny WRX sedan is 260hp to start with, and comes with an TDO5 turbo that can put out much more than that with proper tuning
OR
A 97-98 EJ20K from a manual tranny WRX sedan is 276hp to start with and come with a VF22 turbo, that also can put out much more.

Now, of course these aren't $500 swaps, but you get what you pay for. Any of the early Ej20's are bulletproof, and can hit that 300hp number very easily with the proper turbo and tuning...

I bit my tongue early on, but will concur with the feelings of others that if the Legacy isn't bagged out, don't rob that engine from it. There's more than enough 2.0l WRX engines floating around to build your car with without ripping up a perfectly good rare vehicle.

Or be unique and build the legacy like we do. My '91 SS is going to run an Ej20G engine for a year or so while I rebuild the stock Ej22T bottom end and then that will go back in with the Ej20G heads along with a bigger turbo. And as Kelly mentioned, the WRX ECU plugs right into the Legacy harness and with a minimum of changes you can run it in the car. That also opens you up to tuning it with the PowerFC as a full standalon ECU replacement that doesn't break the bank...

And as Kelly mentioned, the WRX ECU plugs right into the Legacy harness and with a minimum of changes you can run it in the car. That also opens you up to tuning it with the PowerFC as a full standalon ECU replacement that doesn't break the bank...

Hold the phone......are you talking about a USDM WRX?

It seems as though he's referring to an early WRX.

At least I hope so, sinc ethe USDM WRX ECU doesn't come anywhere near 'just plugging in'.

I might be selling my 94-96 WRX Autronic plugin board... its not cheap tho

Ive never used it, but I think Im wanting the extra options the SM4 wire-in board would give me. It depends on if I can return the board to where I bought it from or not.

Legacy777 wrote:

And as Kelly mentioned, the WRX ECU plugs right into the Legacy harness and with a minimum of changes you can run it in the car. That also opens you up to tuning it with the PowerFC as a full standalon ECU replacement that doesn't break the bank...

Hold the phone......are you talking about a USDM WRX?

He's talking about 93-96 WRX. Modern USDM uses a totally different array of plugs...

Matt Monson wrote:[
A 94-96 EJ20G from a manual tranny WRX sedan is 260hp to start with, and comes with an TDO5 turbo that can put out much more than that with proper tuning
OR
A 97-98 EJ20K from a manual tranny WRX sedan is 276hp to start with and come with a VF22 turbo, that also can put out much more.

Minor correction, the STi versions have these numbers, not standard WRX's of these vintage.

Matt Monson wrote:As Kelly mentioned, the WRX ECU plugs right into the Legacy harness and with a minimum of changes you can run it in the car. That also opens you up to tuning it with the PowerFC as a full standalon ECU replacement that doesn't break the bank...

Where can you find the power FC for the early WRXes?

Everywhere I look doesn't list anything for JDM cars, and says that there is no application for our cars.

I would really prefer a plug-n-play tuneable solution, so this is a really good choice.

mr soul wrote:

Matt Monson wrote:[
A 94-96 EJ20G from a manual tranny WRX sedan is 260hp to start with, and comes with an TDO5 turbo that can put out much more than that with proper tuning
OR
A 97-98 EJ20K from a manual tranny WRX sedan is 276hp to start with and come with a VF22 turbo, that also can put out much more.

Minor correction, the STi versions have these numbers, not standard WRX's of these vintage.

Actually, not true. An Ej20G STI variant for 94-96 is 275ps, and on the 97-98 Ej20K's the STI is rated at the same 280ps (aka 276hp) as the non-STI manual sedans, though the STi got a vf23 instead of the VF22.

Please note, I SPECIFICALLY said manual transmission WRX sedan in both instances and with respect to the HP numbers I was quoting. If one were to get any auto tranny variant or any GF wagon variant that is not an STI or RA, then you will see significantly lower numbers in the 220-240ps range depending on exact vehicle. To get the power numbers I quoted, one must shop smart and get either the vin or the applied chassis code or applied engine code of the swap they are buying. The ECU type number is also a good tell, but unscrupulous vendors have been known to swap ECU's to make their product look to be one of the more powerful versions. Also, getting the part number and all castings from the turbo are a pretty good way to ensure that you are getting the correct JDM engine. Did I mention, the above numbers are only for JDM cars? Export market cars have always gotten lower powered engines...