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I am talking with the guys over at Element Tuning about setting up a hydra nemesis stand-alone ECU that will plug directly into the stock connectors.

For those not familiar with the system, here's a link to the manufacturer's website:

http://www.hydraems.com/

This is an awesome system offering many features for a reasonable price.

Speaking of price, it looks like the unit will be $1499 and you can spend another $349 for the closed loop autotune feature and wideband O2.

They said all they needed was the cam and crank timing info, so I sent them a link to the scanned FSMs. Hopefully they should be able to get all they need from that.

I know you guys are interested in good engine management, so I figured I'd share what I have come across with you. I am planning on getting the unit once they finish it and I am done with my 5MT swap.

Saaaaaaaaweeeeeeeeeet!


Now if only I had the pockets for such a thing

I've spoken to Phil about this before. So did Edwin (PacmanSTi). Apparently, it's just someone needs the duckets to buy one. It's always been an option.

The Hydra is a top notch standalone. It's probably one of the better units I've used.

Before Element Tuning existed I got a Hydra EMS "plug and play" for my legacy SS rally car from Hydra directly. It turned out it wasn't plug and play but Andrew still has some of the info I figured out years ago about why it didn't work. He was great about everything and took it back at no cost to me which is all you can ask of a vendor when you're trying something new.

Now I have all the info needed to make one plug and play, but I prefer Autronic for a number of reasons so I'm using that instead.

How much is Autronic?

I asked and never got an answer, and none of the people that carry Autronic have any prices listed.

I am a broke (soon-to-be-former) college student, so if I can spend less for comparable features and quality, I will.

Then again, I realize that you get what you pay for. I would rather spend more money where it counts (like in good EM), than spend less on something much less good that I will end up outdating eventually.

Autronics are like 2 grand...but they have been around since the Legacy RS was new...so they are time tested and work well...


My uncle, who is a very prestigious engine builder in Auckland, NZ recommends either the Autronic or the Link, as he has had the best luck with both of those...

I think their 600hp EJ20G rallycar was running on Autronic

The Element 700whp Time Attack car was running on a Hydra .

I wouldn't discount it as a not-so-good system.

You can't go wrong with either unit, it just depends on your needs.

Like I said, I want something I don't have to upgrade later. I wanna get something that can work for everything I want to do (which may include twin-scroll turbo, DOHC heads, and a different MAF and other sensors).

If they can get it for true plug-n-play, I will spring for the Hydra, because there are 2 tuners within reasonable driving distance that are well-versed in Hydra tuning.

BTW, InnovativeTuning, what all did they need to make it plug-n-play that they didn't have?

With the Hydra, you can run speed-density if you want, so you can be creative with your intake piping.

IronMonkeyL255 wrote:How much is Autronic?

I asked and never got an answer, and none of the people that carry Autronic have any prices listed.

I am a broke (soon-to-be-former) college student, so if I can spend less for comparable features and quality, I will.

Then again, I realize that you get what you pay for. I would rather spend more money where it counts (like in good EM), than spend less on something much less good that I will end up outdating eventually.

2175 for an SM4 which is what I use on my car.

The Autronic has some more features than the Hydra, many functions they have in common work better on the Autronic, and the big one for me is the Autronic software allows me to tune a car in half the time as compared to a Hydra. The way you make adjustments in the current Hydra software makes it a bit clumsy and slow, but the good news it that's just a software issue and a simple software update would improve the quality of the package a lot in my opinion.

All that said, I tune more Hydras than Autronic units because most people are cost driven and I can make a car run great on a Hydra no problem, it just takes a lot longer. They do get the job done. I have a customer who ran his 35r powered sti at 28 psi daily for over a year on pump/meth with a stock engine on my Hydra tune. He daily drives it and does track days with it. It has 130k+ miles on it now running strong and the drivability as well as the power are flawless.

Don't think I'm bagging on the Hydra. I'm only comparing them because that's the question that was posed. I have no problem recommending the Hydra to my customers with STis. It's the only relatively inexpensive plug and play option and for the money it works well.

-Miike

IronMonkeyL255 wrote:
BTW, InnovativeTuning, what all did they need to make it plug-n-play that they didn't have?

I think they just had some of the pinning wrong in their harness. Some sensors weren't reading etc. I didn't spend enough time troubleshooting to figure out everything that needed fixed in the wiring. At the time I was more focused on the WRX I had.

Are they making any progress on this? I dont see it on the 'under developement' list at hydra.

I got word from them that they need the wave form signal details they need for the cam and crank signals.

Anyone have those handy, or able to get them?

Any futher progress?

I have a snap-on scanner capable of getting the info I need, but I have been to busy to get it. Having to replace headgaskets, water pump, and various other parts in my brother's '94 Legacy.

I will try getting the info tomorrow and send it to them within the week.

Do it, do it! You the man!

had to give the scanner back today.

I should get a chance to get my hands on it later, so it's no big deal.

I am definitely doing this, no question. The main problem is 'when'.

Dont make me come down there!

I'm watching this - thanks for pioneering this one....

I thought you guys would like to know that Nico is running an Autronic standalone on his car using the plug and play box he got from us. My Autronic is the wire in unit, but there's a plug and play option available too now that we know it works for sure.

I'm also following this thread very closely, as I've been considering a LINK setup, but I am always interested in other options

with this or any other stand-alone ecu, we would not need a boost controller or an fcd, is that correct?

sorry for the newbie question.

Boost would be controlled by the ECU, as would the overboost protection fuel cut.

It looks like I am not going to be doing this, since I got an Autronic unit.....

Make sure you post up and let us know what you had to do to make the Autronic work for you. Did you install their intake air temp sensor? If so, where? Does it wire into the Autronic board? Any issue with the tachometer? Thanks.

I haven't installed it yet, but I have been double-checking what I have to do.

I have their IAT sensor, and it wires to pins on the harness. For the tachometer, it looks like I will need an aftermarket tach sending unit to send a signal to the tach, since that autronic doesn't have a tach output.

I am going to be using the single PWM output on my unit for controlling the IAC valve, since it's still a street-driven car. I will be using an AEM Tru-boost gauge/electronic boost controller for controlling boost, and an AEM gauge/UEGO controller for wideband monitoring of my exhaust gasses. This happens to have an output that I can hook directly to the Autronic so I can let it autotune.