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For thanksgiving I helped someone repair a leaking headgasket in a 98 RS. Surprising isnt it

Anyways we removed the engine and replaced all "wear" items which also included all oil seals. The similarity between the 2.2 and 2.5 NA blocks are surprising. I dont know for sure if this is applicable to our engines but I would assume so - Edit: this confirms the 2.2 has the same problem http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=33837

If you havnt seen it the rear main seal is just like the cam/crank seals only siginificantly larger. I would guess it has a 5 inch diameter? I feel that Subaru made a mistake in the implementation of the oil drain for this seal which could cause all your oil to spray out the rear of the engine after only 10 minutes of driving! I will try to explain -

The seals are pressed into a machined ring and oil usually enters from around the shaft or from a small hole near the top. The oil exit is usually on the rear face of this machined ring. On the rear main seal however the oil drain is on the outer surface of this ring. If you install the rear main seal and push it completely flush with the inner face of the ring instead of the outer surface of the block you will completely block this drain!

For those of you who have taken an engine apart and cleaned it you know that its normal for the car to smoke for the first couple minutes after starting. It was 4AM and I decided to test drive to Dennys up the highway .... it turned into what I can best describe as the "Spy Hunter" game. We covered all of highway 405 in LA with a thick cloud of smoke and left a visible trail of oil! When we stopped in the parking lot a pool of amber colered oil collected under the car. Nothin was open so we went in to eat some breakfast until the grocery store near by opened. We bought 3 quarts of el cheapo oil and refilled the car so we could drive back home, spy hunter and all.

It was obvious the leak was from the rear of the engine and the only spot back there it could be was that seal. We took the transmission out instead and the area behind the flywheel was shiny with fresh oil. It was EXTREMELY hard to get the seal out since it was so deep. I eventually used a drywall screw to stick into the seals face and pull it out. Tough lesson to learn but it did give us the chance to fix his leaking exaust and tighten up the shifter (5 speed).

In the end we removed nearly the entire power train not including the rear differential (we also did brake work). One thing I learned is that an Impreza fan is really also a Legacy fan and vice versa. They are essentially the same cars in different trim.


In conclusion when installing oil seals they should be only slightly below flush with the face of the block/head and not hammered all the way in.

Edit: Here is a picture [/img]http://i16.tinypic.com/72q037q.jpg

wow, all the old members are coming out of the woodwork these days. hows it going ciper.
those rear mains are a bitch. i too did the drywall screw trick. when youre drilling a hole for it be very careful that your bit does not walk into the crank by accident.

I've always wondered how the dealer removes seals. I have cleaned up quite a Subaru engines and have never found a tool that works as well as a set of small screw drivers with rotating heads like these -


http://www.superdroidrobots.com/images/T-010-016.jpg

One specific size of this screw driver is also the absolute PERFECT tool for removing axle pins. It is self centering and holds in place so you only need one hand!

There is actually a seal removal tool which you can pick up at most autoparts stores.

As for the seal leaking, I did the exact same thing, so don't feel bad. Matt (legacy92ej22t) and I regasketed my wife's '98 LGT due to head gaskets finally going bad at 135,000 miles. I replaced the rear main seal and went a bit deeper than the flush to the outiside of the block it should have been. Needless to say, we didn't think it would be an issue and sure enough once oil pressure came up, it started to run out of the motor like a hole was punched into the block.

Ripped the motor back out and had my Subaru tech buddy redo it & confirm that it needed to be flush not sunk in as you would think.

As you said before, lesson learned.

I did mine about flush, except one part went slightly farther in than the rest. Luckily I haven't had any problems from it, but it looks to be leaking slightly.

Note to self, don't try this...

Thanks for the write up tho.

Cheers, AW

I bet this has happened to a lot of folks (some I know of and others I've heard about). I've never made the mistake myself because I asked a LOT of questions on the first motor I built. Since then I always knew to go just below flush of the deck area. Don't feel bad though as I've made my own share of mistakes on other parts of a motor build (damn engine build number 1). Sucks that you had to dig back into it.

As far as Subaru making a "mistake" in the design, I don't agree. I'm sure one of their trained technicians would have been taught how to properly install a Subaru seal.

I knew to put it flush to the deck area, but for some reason, it went deeper at one spot. I was using a wood block and hitting it on opposite sides so the wood would only push it in to deck height.

I still believe it was a mistake for two reasons -
Other similar seals on the engine work fine when "fully inserted"
It would seem to be a minor change to the block to extend this drain into the "face" of the seat.

Part of the problem is that many of us think we are being thorough by installing the seal as far back as it can go. Its counterintuitive to have it hovering in the middle. Its not easy to get the seal to be perfectly level when you cant push it flush to the face.

I can understand not changing the design mid stream/model but I confirmed that the phase 1 2.5 suffers from the same issue.

I plan to eventually swap an EJ22T into another of my Subarus and I have given serious thought to using a dremel to modify the drain myself so the seal can be fully seated

Yeah, the seal is kind of a PITA. I had a hell of time removing mine without destroying it after putting it in too far initially.

Anyone have a picture of a seal puller that works well with the Cam/Crank seals?

I have never inserted one too far, but I have fubarred 2 on install. So I tend to have extras on hand in case of worst case scenerio.

BTW, I forgot to mention how I usually work the seal in. I found a huge PVC 'end cap' at Home Depot that workes perfectly. It covers the entire end of the crank and sits right on top of the seal face. However, the motor that I built the other day I couldn't find it. I ended up using a 14mm box wrench (round end) and tapped slowly but surely on the other end of it work it around and around until it was going in straight.

$6.99 through Advance Autoparts / Parts America:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDeta ... ber=648494

I have one of those and I could never get it to work well. What am I doing wrong?

I'll admit, they are not the easiest tool to work with. Most people will just run 2 corse screws into the old seal to remove it. I've done both personally.

The seal pullers don't work with the cam/crank seals or the rear main seal.

Best thing that works is a small screwdriver jammed in the side of the seal, and something against the engine to act as a fulcrum so you can push the screwdriver handle towards the engine, and pop out the seal.

It's a bitch to do the seals, but once you figure out exactly how to get at the seals, it isn't too bad.

There is a word when two people invent the same thing without knowledge of each other. I wonder how many people working on subes have invented the screwdriver method on their own? lol

boy do I feel in good company, I also had a bit of a dickens with that seal, my new one went in way to far and crooked so I just put the old one in on top of it to straighten every thing out. I just left, them both in thinking one seal good two seals really good. No joy, oil all over the driveway and another engine pull at 25degrees. Seems that if its that critical there should be so sort of stops cast into that opening to assure proper placement, oh well we have learned as will others

Legacy777 wrote:The seal pullers don't work with the cam/crank seals or the rear main seal.

Best thing that works is a small screwdriver jammed in the side of the seal, and something against the engine to act as a fulcrum so you can push the screwdriver handle towards the engine, and pop out the seal.

It's a bitch to do the seals, but once you figure out exactly how to get at the seals, it isn't too bad.

That's my favorite method...

Does anyone know the size of the PVC cap people are using for the RMS seating?

Im going to the hardware store today after work and i wont have time to check the size before hand.

NASIOC Thread = 4"

Thanks!

Thats wrong.

End cap size is 3"

I have it hear in front of me.

A Rear main and 4" cap I used: