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Forget wrx stis...

I want this!

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/29/suba ... ve-450-hp/

Doubt it'll happen... But uh yeah, can you say S4 murderer... and M3 murderer... and C63 AMG murderer...

Only in performance... NOT in luxury and refinement... but pure balls to the wall performance, yeah.... and would still be 20k less than any of them!

Where do you sign? At the bank. When you take out a one loan for the car and an even bigger one to cover the gas.

Thats for sure!

But you have to admit.... It would be sick!

Meh. Everybody and their grandmother builds a high powered car now and their cars are still boring - isolated and heavy. There's nothing new in powerful engines so it doesn't interest me. I like new ideas - they reassure me that there are some people left in the world who use that gray mass in their skulls for more than body function regulation. Traffic often depresses me by proving the opposite point. Ironically, the new(ish) idea of the parallel hybrid (Prius) is one of the greatest sources of traffic stupidity. Whatareyougonnado? Friggin' rich Cambridge hippy douche bags!

I feel like a prehistoric rat looking out of my hole in the ground at the asteroid all the dinosaurs have turned away from thinking that if they don't look at it, it doesn't exist. I'm going back in my hole to dream of a bountiful future of succulent dinosaur meat.

I'd rather them make a manual transmission wagon the size of the original Legacy about the same weight with DI that gets in the mid 30's for mileage and built to the tank-like standards they used to build cars to. And it can't be ugly ass like the Impreza. That will get me back.

Objective post: If Subaru is serious about this and dumps a whole bunch of money into R&D just as gas prices soar even higher and the trend veers toward the green movement, then this will be an even bigger financial disappointment than the XT, SVX, or Brat.

Subjective post: Oh yay, Subaru is joining in the how-much-horsepower-can-we-shove-into-a-compact-sedan dick-swinging contest. At least NASIOC will be happy.

DerFahrer wrote:
Subjective post: Oh yay, Subaru is joining in the how-much-horsepower-can-we-shove-into-a-compact-sedan dick-swinging contest. At least NASIOC will be happy.

Yeah...someone needs to get on the 'how much lightness we can fit into a compact sedan' bandwagon


e.g. Toyota Starlet, VW Rabbit

Remember... There still is a "segment" of the market who is relatively unneffected by high gas prices.

And it may be that Subaru, in the effort to up there image, is wanting to compete with Audi, BMW, and Benz, whos buyers are not to adversely effected by gas prices.

Do you really think that BMWs target market for the new M3 is too concerned with what kind of mileage it gets?

No.

Then if Subaru wants to compete with this why would they worry too much.

And dont forget, there is technology that allows mileage to increase, its not unreasonable to assume, at ALL that it wont get better mileage than our cars.

My dad could pull 21mpg out of my grandparents 300C SRT8. While he only pulled 23 out of the T-Leg. Compare that... a turbo 4 w/ 160hp at 23mpg on super. vs. a 6.1L 4000lbs Chrysler w/ 425hp at 21mpg on super.

And that is a fultime 8 cylinder mode 425hp V8

Its completely likely that it will come with some computer programing that allows drivers to switch between less power/better mileage and insane power/less than mediocre mileage, modes with a flip of Si-Drive.

I dont think this is bad at all. Subaru wants to up there image, this would be one step.

smh0101 wrote:
My dad could pull 21mpg out of my grandparents 300C SRT8. While he only pulled 23 out of the T-Leg. Compare that... a turbo 4 w/ 160hp at 23mpg on super. vs. a 6.1L 4000lbs Chrysler w/ 425hp at 21mpg on super.

That's all gearing

Image people buy the Nazi cars, not Subarus. I agree with Mike that it would more likely be a commercial failure. And perceived image is changing as more people see high performance gas hogs as stupid, the insecure image people will start to move away from these vehicles. Primarily, that's what these big engine cars are is purely image as they have little to offer in terms of actual enjoyment beyond the reptilian brain's giggle when they step on the gas. I've never driven a light car that wasn't fun regardless of power and I've been in big-power pigs that bore me to tears. I'm not the only one and once the image of the drivers of these vehicles are no longer perceived as cool, virile, tough, (whatever they happen to be compensating for), they'll abandon them. That's not to say all performance cars are dead or that all people buying fast cars are insecure, but most so-called performance cars are a pointlessly big engine stuffed into an overweight pig and those cars will thankfully die.

All this horsepower is so ridiculously stupid when those cars are usually still in my way on the highway slowing me down (maybe trying to save gas) or stuck in the same traffic and burning more fuel going nowhere. What good is a car that only begins to be relatively exciting at over 100 mph when speed limits are 65, cops need revenue, and there's retarded traffic everywhere? I want my GL back that was a blast to drive at 75 and cost nothing to run. That was more a performance car in the true sense because it could be driven to its potential often without endangering people or attracting attention.

Or is performance all just image anyway? Around here, the few expensive rice cars drive slower than Priuses. Is it just posing so more people can see how much money they waste on short-term junk yard fodder or are they too conspicuous to get away with anything else? Either way, there's no point.

I'd rather have more money to build my own car, improve my house, push my book, find new projects to work on, educate myself, take classes, go out to dinner with friends, or give money to people who need it than hand more of it over than my transport needs require to the criminals in charge of oil companies and repressive regimes around the globe for the sake of an image and an occasional neck jerk at the mashing of a gas pedal.

To each their own, I guess, but these cars are dinosaurs and Subaru used to be above this kind of thing. If it's true that dinosaurs evolved into birds, then their survival was down to losing size, weight, and power.

I just wanted to add that the Lexus ls600hl is my current realistic dream car. Total available HP is 438 with AWD, thats a 5 liter V8 with a hybrid to provide additional torque when needed. It gets the same mileage I get with my Legacy too.

CVT transmission with Torsen center diff
Electric power stearing
Regenerative Braking
0 - 60 5.5 s
1/4-Mile 13.8 s
20-22mpg
5000 pounds

Oh and 4 year warranty overall - 6 year on powertrain

555BCTurbo wrote:

smh0101 wrote:
My dad could pull 21mpg out of my grandparents 300C SRT8. While he only pulled 23 out of the T-Leg. Compare that... a turbo 4 w/ 160hp at 23mpg on super. vs. a 6.1L 4000lbs Chrysler w/ 425hp at 21mpg on super.

That's all gearing

And it can get away with that high gearing because it has more power.

evolutionmovement wrote:Image people buy the Nazi cars, not Subarus. I agree with Mike that it would more likely be a commercial failure. And perceived image is changing as more people see high performance gas hogs as stupid, the insecure image people will start to move away from these vehicles. Primarily, that's what these big engine cars are is purely image as they have little to offer in terms of actual enjoyment beyond the reptilian brain's giggle when they step on the gas. I've never driven a light car that wasn't fun regardless of power and I've been in big-power pigs that bore me to tears. I'm not the only one and once the image of the drivers of these vehicles are no longer perceived as cool, virile, tough, (whatever they happen to be compensating for), they'll abandon them. That's not to say all performance cars are dead or that all people buying fast cars are insecure, but most so-called performance cars are a pointlessly big engine stuffed into an overweight pig and those cars will thankfully die.

All this horsepower is so ridiculously stupid when those cars are usually still in my way on the highway slowing me down (maybe trying to save gas) or stuck in the same traffic and burning more fuel going nowhere. What good is a car that only begins to be relatively exciting at over 100 mph when speed limits are 65, cops need revenue, and there's retarded traffic everywhere? I want my GL back that was a blast to drive at 75 and cost nothing to run. That was more a performance car in the true sense because it could be driven to its potential often without endangering people or attracting attention.

Or is performance all just image anyway? Around here, the few expensive rice cars drive slower than Priuses. Is it just posing so more people can see how much money they waste on short-term junk yard fodder or are they too conspicuous to get away with anything else? Either way, there's no point.

I'd rather have more money to build my own car, improve my house, push my book, find new projects to work on, educate myself, take classes, go out to dinner with friends, or give money to people who need it than hand more of it over than my transport needs require to the criminals in charge of oil companies and repressive regimes around the globe for the sake of an image and an occasional neck jerk at the mashing of a gas pedal.

To each their own, I guess, but these cars are dinosaurs and Subaru used to be above this kind of thing. If it's true that dinosaurs evolved into birds, then their survival was down to losing size, weight, and power.

Honestly.

My grandpa didnt buy that car because of "image".

He didnt buy the Mercedes because he didnt want the image.

He liked the car, loved the power.

And why wouldnt you giggle when you step on the gas and your skull sinks into the headrest? lol

And whats wrong with liking that?

I would never own a Prius, reason being, i certainly dont want that image.

And I was refering to M3s, S4s, and C63 AMGs...

those arent big-power heavy pigs.

And its not the "big oil companies" fault. Thank a devaluing dollar and China. When you look at the profit margins in the oil industry... Most small business owners would shudder at the thought.

But yeah, the point was to show you guys a new Subaru that you know, deep down, you'd love to drive.

There is a reason to own more than one vehicle!

I have two "race" cars, my "daily driver", my wifes wagon, and my Van.

I can live with the shitty milage of the race cars, but would like the dialy and wifes to get decent milage.

As for the Van? ummmmmm 8 mpg if lucky? I NEED it, just don't like the $20 cross town trips in it.

Now I am currently looking for a 1977-1979 Subaru wagon. 35 mpg! And still a suby.

douglas vincent wrote:Now I am currently looking for a 1977-1979 Subaru wagon. 35 mpg! And still a suby.

Justy.

Justy the right car for Justy the right price!

Fuck image.

If I became the image of the cars I drive, I'd either be a fag (purple Honda Fit), old college professor (Legacy), or pedophile (big white Sprinter van with no rear windows).

Subaru used to ignore image outright, to the point where it hurt because mainstream America was too stupid to appreciate it. Now that's what they're after, and the design of their cars are following suit. I guess we can thank Toyota for that.

At least Douglas has the right idea: have a fuel-efficient car as a daily, and then have a car dedicated strictly to performance. Depending on my situation next year (whether I'm back in school or not), I'll be pursuing a similar interest.

I agree with subieluvr. (sorry not used to der fahrer.

I'm seriosly considering getting an Acura RSX as my reliable daily driver and making my turbo the performance car...

Those RSXs get darn good mileage in a nice little car.

DerFahrer wrote: or pedophile (big white Sprinter van with no rear windows)..

A hip German pedophile though...

smh0101 wrote:I agree with subieluvr. (sorry not used to der fahrer.

I'm seriosly considering getting an Acura RSX as my reliable daily driver and making my turbo the performance car...

Those RSXs get darn good mileage in a nice little car.

You just come into some $$$$?


Those suckas are expensive!

Actually... my dealership has one... with 22,000 miles...

for pretty cheap... in frikkin fantastic shape, looks brand new.

Its basically a nice 2 door civic... only 155hp. but its rated at 27 and 34 mpg on regular. I think it would make a great daily driver.

smh0101 wrote:I think it would make a great daily driver.

I concur...nice cars!

That's my point - performance can be had without sucking gas. And I still maintain that all those Nazi cars are heavy pigs. Light is under 2600 lbs. tops. My Mazda is a heavy pig - no hatchback should weigh over 2700 lbs., it's absurd, heavier than my Legacy wagon, and the driving experience suffers. Used to be any economy car could be fun, today there are no fun cars. MAYBE the Elise, but it's too low, cramped, and attention getting to be no-worries as a fun car should be. Maybe I'm just not 13 anymore.

In the end, almost any amount of power gets boring and when gas prices go over $5 will seem completely stupid. What you have left is how fun the car is to drive and big power seldom = fun to drive. It's merely masturbation for the animal mind. Slowly, it seems people are grasping this as everyone seems to be talking about reducing weight. Why are old sports cars fun? Why do people put up with the nightmares for cars a Prius could out accelerate? I don't think I need to answer that.

And big oil are absolutely criminals, look into the history of some of these companies, not least of which leaded gas (that they still sell in Africa). It's not about recent China and Indian oil demand, these scumbags have a history of mass murder for money. Good work if you can get it and the states allow it because they have to. Pays well, too. They are the modern day British East India Trade Co.

Our Welfare Racer KP61 Toyota Starlet is Light @ 2001lbs with driver, has a tiny little Wankel motor (12A 1.1l / 68 Cubic inches), but only gets about 3-5 1/4mile passes (complete with John force style 330' marker burnouts) per 3.5 gal Tank of gas!

Giving a MPG of - .3571 miles/Gallon (10.8 second trim(12-15psi)) - .2142 miles/Gallon (9 second trim(20-28psi)). 9 second timeslips from a LOW budget car are worth the poor fuel mileage to us.
14,000 RPMs +15-30psi of boost from a 18wheeler turbo will drink some gas.....

Like Doug said a race car is a race car & is not ideal to use for daily driving.

I'm sure there is a market for fast weekend toys that may share a garage with a 35MPG daily driver, or 50cc scooters that get 150MPG!

Racecars are completely different and this is no race car anyway. If these cars were toys they'd be something closer to a Caterham. Why have all that extra weight and crap for a weekend toy? Wouldn't you want the toy to be a the best toy it could be or be able to use it when you want to? Vehicles like this are bad commuters and bad toys. They don't make sense. Partly, the government is to blame with all its mandated safety BS that precludes you from buying a light vehicle even if you want to. You should have the choice of buying something without 80 airbags and worthless electronic crap if you want one without resorting to something like an Ariel Atom since that can't be driven often either and making your own car is impractical and time consuming for most. I'd buy something along the lines of a closed cockpit caterham with good aerodynamics (actual good, not "relative to the stupid vehicles they make now" good) to get over 40 mpg and I don't give a rats how unsafe it's perceived as long as the gas tank is protected. Guess I'll build my own.

evolutionmovement wrote:Racecars are completely different and this is no race car anyway. If these cars were toys they'd be something closer to a Caterham. Why have all that extra weight and crap for a weekend toy? Wouldn't you want the toy to be a the best toy it could be or be able to use it when you want to? Vehicles like this are bad commuters and bad toys. They don't make sense.

They dont make sense to YOU.

YOU are not the target market, thus, you dont want it.

End of story, thats the problem with your argument. You arent the target.