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Fuel Pump, FCD, MBC, etc?

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:03 pm
by kimokalihi
I just realized I haven't thought about getting an FCD, MBC, Fuel Pump or anything else regarding fuel delivery and boost control.

I'm putting a 97 JDM forester engine/trans into my 91 SS. Using a USDM WRX TD04 and whatever injectors are on this motor.

I'm not sure exactly what a fuel cut defender does. Does it fool the computer into thinking boost has not exceeded a certain point so it doesn't cut fuel off?

Where do I get one of these?

I tried searching for FCD but didn't come up with a definition of what it does or who sells them. I think vrg3 made some.

I'm thinking a probably could use/need a new fuel pump. Walbro makes a pump for our cars?

What's the recommended manual boost controller?

Wouldn't this all run the best on the ECU that came with this motor? Or would that not work with my gauges or something? Or require a lot of work to integrate into the car?

Anything else I need to get for this engine/EJ22T ECU combo?

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:11 pm
by kimokalihi
OK, I just found vrg3's thread on fuel cut defender. I don't want to make one, I just want to buy one. But I think I understand how it works now, which is basically what I thought it did. Gives the ECU a false voltage reading to fool it into thinking that the boost level is within the acceptable range set from the fatory.

It mentions that if a vacuum line came loose or something and the turbo was alowed to build boost into unsafe levels it could damage the engine. It says that some form of prevention must be in place when using an FCD.

Would that be a manual boost controller then?

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:15 pm
by BSOD2600
kimokalihi wrote:I don't want to make one, I just want to buy one.
I've got a new one from http://fcd.chrispaiano.com/ which I never installed (held out for the Revtronix chip which does this too), in case you want to buy it.
kimokalihi wrote:Would that be a manual boost controller then?
Right, since those who are increasing the boost past the stock level, typically either run wastegate pressure or use a MBC. Without ECU modding, the stock boost controller wouldnt know when to dump the higher PSI load.

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:35 pm
by kimokalihi
Right, gotcha.

The link didn't work because you accidently got the comma in the link at the end.

How much you want for the FCD? I may get the chip too I dunno yet.

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:57 pm
by kimokalihi
What about a wideband, do I need one of those?

I was just looking at gauges. Jesus they're expensive! WTF! People on NASIOC are selling gauges for $160-$250+ per gauge. I saw a set of DEFI gauges, there was either 5 or 7 gauges with the control unit for like $1,700. I could get another legacy for that.

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:48 am
by BSOD2600
For chrispaiano's FCD, how $45 + shipping.

As for a wideband, while it's not required, it's a very smart thing to do. You want to make sure things aren't running too lean or rich during boost. Obviously a leaner engine will run hotter, which can cause lots of bad things.

For example, the v1 of the revtronix chip had an issue where it was running too lean during warmup. Without the wideband, I would've never been able to figure out wtf was going on, except for guessing and lots of data logging.
Another example, weeks before my knock sensor went out, I started to notice my AFR getting more and more rich (as the ECU adapted, retarded timing, went in/out of safemode/limp mode for fuel maps, etc). Sure, one could've done some data logging and gotten an idea of what's going on... but the wideband provided an immediate result/picture.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:22 pm
by wtdash
Kimo,
My .02:
- The VRG3/Chris P. FCD works and although not professional looking, gets the job done.
- I still use THISMBC when testing on my car. I paid $15 off NASIOC. Works great. My only complaint w/an MBC is that it doesn't hold boost steady- it comes and goes, as load changes. (Think: Ice+road+hill+15psi boost :shock: )
- Your SS fuel pump is likely original? Do you plan on mods over 200whp? If so, replace it w/an STI (used on NASIOC I paid $40) or get the Walbro for $100 new. (BTW, the '02-'06? WRX fuel pump isn't an upgrade...flows a bit less than the SS.)

I don't know what injectors your engine runs, but the stock ECU can manage 440's, and some say 480's (mine didn't), for future reference.

I haven't read thru your whole build thread, so not sure what your engine is, but will OBD1 vs. OBD2 matter?


Have fun!
Td

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:56 pm
by SLODRIVE
GET A WIDEBAND!!!!!!

I consider that a must-have for ANY non-stock EFI application, especially anything with forced induction. $200-$300 is dirt cheap compared to replacing burnt pistons. ;)

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:45 pm
by kimokalihi
I would love to get over 200WHP, but I don't plan on it right away. Right now I just want to get it running reliably.

I'll check out the STI pumps. How much do they flow compared to the Walbro pump?

I assumed these were 440 injectors. It's an EJ20G out of a 97 forester from Japan.

Are you asking if OBD1 vs OBD2 matters to me? I don't know lol. Can't you do more with OBD2 as far as tuning? I thought all the WRX crowd flashes the ECU and tuning was a lot easier for them than us.

I just saw a wideband for sale on NASIOC for $200 the other day.

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:35 am
by ScottyS
Quite honestly it will probably be better performance, less hassle, and less expensive to just find an EJ20 ECU and run it. Assuming that you have all the EJ20 sensors and stuff on that motor already.

If you insist on running a 22T ECU, then ask Revtronix about how far along they are with the EJ20 tune.

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:04 am
by kimokalihi
Now you tell me! I already have the whole swap including the ej20g harnesses and ecu. I just thought it wouldn't work with my gauges or be too much of a pain with wiring it through my LHD dash. I have all the sesnors. EVERYTHING.

So do I put the whole harness in my car with the ecu?

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:43 pm
by PhyrraM
NO. If you wish to try an EJ20 ECU get (trade?) a early 4 plug EJ20G ECU. It will run your engine just fine and you don't have to mess with all the wiring.

Honestly, just run the EJ22T ecu stock for a while. Don't bother installing a FCD for now. Once it's running good- go for the Revtronix chip programed for the EJ20G, Mike says its ready per an email about a week ago.

The EJ22T ecu is known to be very adaptive. Until recently, many of us were running EJ20G swap on the factory ECU and were very happy. We are lucky to have so many tuning options lately, but that doesn't mean the O.G. way still isn't the best place to start.

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:06 pm
by kimokalihi
OK, well I just bought and FCD already. TurboXS from a member here for a decent price.

What I would like to know for future reference is, does the OBDII ECUs offer better tuning options and flexibility. What exactly are the benefits and disadvantages of each.

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:03 pm
by PhyrraM
The only OBD2 ECU you would be concerned with is a '02+ WRX/STI ecu. And that would require a harness merge, heads and intake. Not what you want to do.

If you want programmability, you have a few choices. Wait for the Revtronix user programable chip, any EJ20G aftermarket ECU, or full standalone.

If ou just want it to run, and run well, then use the EJ22T ecu or an EJ20G ecu. Not the one from the swap, it's technically an EJ20K (3 plug) ECU. The "true" EJ20G ecus use 4 plugs just like your Legacy has.

If you have the FCD, that's cool. I didn't really mean don't get it (physically). I just wouldn't use it until the motor is running safely at the stock boost levels. Then, by all means, turn it up!

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:09 pm
by kimokalihi
I see, that makes sense.

My next question is, would a EJ20G ECU be plug and play or would there be any wiring changes? By EJ20G you mean early JDM WRX EJ20G? Before we got the WRX?

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:15 pm
by PhyrraM
Yes, I mean early WRX EJ20G or early Legacy/Liberty EJ20G.

Yes, there would be a few wiring changes. You would have to add 2 more channels of ignition and a 4 channel ignitor. Seeing as how your intake manifold mounts a coilpack you don't need to mess with coil-on-plugs unless you want to. This is a total of 2 wires to the ECU and 4 wires under the dash. NO engine wiring changes or wires through the firewall/behind the A/C, etc to deal with. Look for my threads "need electonics help" and "how-to 4 channel ECU".

In addition to the ignition you need to swap 1 wire location for the map sensor at the ECU.

If you need clarifiaction, bump those threads with your question and I'll be glad to.

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:29 pm
by kimokalihi
Thanks PhyrraM. I don't think I'll go that route but it's good to know.