legacycentral bbs

What car would be the best choice for cheap, reliable power/weight ratio? It's got to handle decent and not be FWD. Subaru is expensive if you want to make a lot of power.

How old? What price range?

Off the top of my head:

Camaro with an LS series motor.
Mustangs of various years.
'89-'95 Thunderbird Supercoupe (or even V8s)
Nissan 240sx, but hard to find clean ones. Power adders are about Suby prices.

At one time I thought a '83-'86 FOX body Thunderbird full of parts meant for a Mustang would be cool. FOX body Fords from the '80s and early '90s were just as much of LEGOs as Subarus.

Yeah, pretty much any RWD GM or Ford product... I'd stay away from Chrysler at all cost.

I was always partial to the G-body cars, but they're heavier than an F-body. Don't carry as many negative associations and are more comfortable, though. F-body cars have better aerodynamics and a lower cg, but G-bodies can handle pretty well for big live axle cars (although they're still pretty light by modern standards).

I had a 91 "fox body" back in the day. (91 mustang GT Kimo). Boy was that a great car. It was my first love, so i always have a spot in my heart for them. Funny part is, w/ the money i got in the subie, i could've had a 500hp stang. . One day I'll get another, and do a "Terminator" swap. >:)

magicmike wrote:Yeah, pretty much any RWD GM or Ford product... I'd stay away from Chrysler at all cost.

Correction. Chrysler(Dodge/Plymouth) products built after 1979.

But I think any decent Mopar is going to be out of the "cheap" qualification and most 70s cars from anybody had emissions strangled boat anchors, so they'd require some more money or you'd be talking about older cars and none of them are cheap anymore. Hell, I'm not sure if G-bodies are so cheap anymore. I remember in high school that you could buy them for $300-800 almost any time in good shape, mostly the Cutlass and Grand Prix (the cheapest), but they may be relatively expensive now. T-Type and GNs were always money, but Monte Carlo SSs were reasonable. Again, this may no longer apply.

350 Formulas/TAs were pretty nice, but also might be money as they were fairly rare back then. IIRC, the GTA was supposed to be 305, but I had a friend whose brother had a factory 350 version. Gold BBS and dark red metallic. Was a pretty nice car. Even the interior wasn't terrible. CORRECTION: it was supposed to be 350, but was a weird factory 305. He bought it from an old lady who must have wanted the luxury package without all the power of the 350 or something. Still nice, though. The 350 Formulas with a stick were fun. I always liked them better than the Camaros. They just seemed a little bit classier.

The great thing about any of them is an LSx goes in. One of the main characters in my 2nd-4th books drives a 400 HP LS2 85 Monte Carlo SS as a daily driver.

True enough. I saw a six cylinder Valliant for four grand. About wet myself.

wow so mainly just american cars? I saw 240sx and I like that. SR20 swap pretty cheap on those?

Yeah, the slant 6s were pretty solid back in the day—we had an Aspen wagon in forest green with the de rigueur wood trim. Not much for performance, though. Still, I missed it after we replaced it with a Voyager in 85. But, missing that was nothing compared to the 1600 Capri we had until I was 3 or so. I loved that car and credit that with my affection for small cars. With one of the bigger engines, that would be another nice fit for the bill, but they're rare as hell today. I don't think I've seen one in better than junk yard condition in 15 years and that was in Virginia (less rust).

Kimo—pretty much. I thought you wanted something cheaper and reliable. You can have one or the other. A V8 is easy, lazy power that you can upgrade all day for pennies (to a certain extent). I realize you may not want to have to grow a mullet or shave your head completely bald to legally drive your car, but it's worth it if you really want cheap, reliable, rwd. There just aren't a lot of options.

I was just curios and mainly thinking of japanese cars. I have seen the amounts of money thrown into a subaru engine over on NASIOC and the results are not that impressive for the money spent, IMO. I was thinking maybe it would be cheaper to buy something like an AE86 and do a motor swap on it and make a really fast car since it's so light.

Also Steve, you were attached to a car at 3 years old? How do you even remember back that far? I have maybe 1 or 2 memories from when I was 3 years old.

e30

My answer to this question every time

What year? How much do they run and what kind of mods/cost?

E30? As in BMW?

If you looking to go Euro, I could make a case that the 240 series Volvos (or even RWD 940s) are near the top of the bang-for-buck scale. And they have that 'follow a different beat' vibe that BMWs seem to lack.

Kimo, the problem with Japanese cars in general is that they all have the same basic upgrade path. So, in return, they all have the same basic cost per HP. Unless you can do alot of custom fabbing, building a Subaru is no more expensive than most others. The trick is to be realistic....Don't shoot for a Dyno queen.

kimokalihi wrote:What year? How much do they run and what kind of mods/cost?

e30s are 84-91 without getting too specific. I guess it depends on what your goals are with the car though, it definitely leans more towards the light and good handling portion of your criteria, less towards high power. NA you won't get much more than 200whp no matter what you do(internals and everything), FI most people are in the mid 300s.

Really though if you want 400+ cheap you don't have a lot of options, you're basically limited to anything with an LSx or 5.0, maybe an sr20det 240 or a MK3 Supra

PhyrraM wrote:E30? As in BMW?

If you looking to go Euro, I could make a case that the 240 series Volvos (or even RWD 940s) are near the top of the bang-for-buck scale. And they have that 'follow a different beat' vibe that BMWs seem to lack.

Kimo, the problem with Japanese cars in general is that they all have the same basic upgrade path. So, in return, they all have the same basic cost per HP. Unless you can do alot of custom fabbing, building a Subaru is no more expensive than most others. The trick is to be realistic....Don't shoot for a Dyno queen.

Yessir, I guess they're different, but, I'll take an e30 over a Volvo any day, had a 325e for my first car, 325i second, and I'll be in an m3 just as soon as I can put the money aside.

Here's a fox my buddy has been working on all winter. It goes in for paint on saturday.

A Volvo 240 with a V8 would be nice, but I think a G-body would be cheaper.

Kimo—the Capri was a sort of French blue with black interior. I remember a flight of small birds (chickadees?) hitting the windshield, blood streaming up the glass. I knew that one and one I saw hit the header and tumble behind the car (we didn't have the straightjacket car seats for kids then) were dead and what that meant. From age of 2, I remember my dad screaming like a woman when discovering rats in the basement and his unsuccessful attempt to flush one down the toilet that had its tail caught in a trap. I remember seeing the movie Orca (a Jaws rip off) and I loved it because the vengeful whale was in the right. I remember the seagulls feasting on the giant crabs on the beach that was off our backyard, the sounds of buoys clinging at night, the reflections of the water on the ceiling, horseshoe crabs, and jellyfish explosion. I also remember a nightmare where I was chased around my living room by a tiger,which eventually caught me and ate my head. crushing my skull and eating my brains. I floated above watching the action (a past life recollection, perhaps?). So the wives' tale that you die in real life if you die in a dream is BS. I have plenty of other memories from the age, but I can seldom remember what I ate yesterday.

You could look into a Merkur xr4ti, its basicly a Ford Escort Cosworth but rwd. Its got a 2.4l turbo mustang svo motor and, from what I've read, the stock block can take 22psi. They are cheap and turbo if you don't want to leave the turbo world. If thats not what you're looking for then you could consider a Mazda Miata with a v8 swap, rwd, total sleeper, convertable, and still a Japanese car. If you have the time, search monster miata on youtube and check it out.

Florin1 wrote:Here's a fox my buddy has been working on all winter. It goes in for paint on saturday.

It's surrounded by subarus!

I've seen plenty of monster miatas. I was actually looking at some miata builds a couple days ago checking out some corvette swaps. This plastic surgeon who does breast implants all day at work put (or actually I think he paid someone else to do the work) a corvette motor in his RX7 and his MX5.

kimokalihi wrote:I've seen plenty of monster miatas. I was actually looking at some miata builds a couple days ago checking out some corvette swaps. This plastic surgeon who does breast implants all day at work put (or actually I think he paid someone else to do the work) a corvette motor in his RX7 and his MX5.

My friend that just bought All_Talk's SS has an LS1 RX7.

And a Miata is actually not a bad idea, they were actually made for boost, but ended up NA, so you can get pretty good power out of them and they're super light. I think an LS in a Miata would throw off the balance quite a bit though, but I could be wrong.

I also think the LSx would throw off the balance on the Miata, but I'm not sure or by how much. The Miata block is iron, after all. With the RX7, the balance is about the same as the LSx weighs the same as that boat anchor Wankel (depending on source, I've heard 50 pounds either way).

I'd be surprised if you can build a Miata for that much less than a Subaru. I bit less, sure, because you only need 75% of the HP for the same effect.

Any LSx swap or Monster Miata is gonna be more that modding a car with it's factory mill. The folks who make kits know exactly where to price them, so unless your able to do all the fab work stay with something that comes with a moddable motor. You'll be money ahead.

Now the exception would be if you could pick up somebodies half finished project......



I believe that if your pulling a turbo rotary out, a LSx motor is basically the same weight. If you pulling a N/A rotary, your up about 100 pounds with the V8.

The best entertaining-to-drive/dollar car is, hands down, the Honduh CR-X. With the 1.3L, 50mpg is possible, or the less-anemic 1.5 still gets over 30mpg. FWD, I know, but they don't weigh much more than a tin can (which they are, essentially). With some readily available (read: cheap) suspension adjustment components, good handling is less than half a paycheck away.