legacycentral bbs

I have an issue of excess valve lash with the freshly built motor. I pulled the rocker assemblies off and checked the lash adjusters and they are good. In the process I noticed that there was too much clearance between the rocker and the cam. I called Delta about the issue and they said that there should have been shims sent with the cams, which I never received or was never told I needed them. What I'm curious about, has anybody else needed or used shims with their cams on the ej22t motor?

I talked with Dan Pidde and he indicated that his cams didn't need shims, so I'm curious if they changed their process sometime in the past to save money. Delta told me to pick up some # 10 SS washers and that should take care of things. I'm going to check it out maybe tomorrow and will report back, but please post if you've installed a Delta Cam and whether you had to use shims or not.

Thanks

I've installed a couple sets of 220 grind cams with no shims.
Cam regrinding is not an exactly precise process and depending on a few variables, more or less material will be removed from the base circle of the cam. If more is removed, the lash clearance increases and needs to be accounted for.
Running shims won't hurt anything and may, in fact, yield a 'tighter' valve train setup with the possibility of a bit more duration. Its akin to cranking the rocker down on a SBC to take out the majority of the hydraulic lifter's travel in order to decrease the amount of travel required before the lifter 'locks in'.

Thanks for the feedback.

I talked to Delta again, and they essentially said the same thing. If more material is cut from the base circle, it will need shims. I picked up some shims, and measured the thickness of all of them so I can get a consistent set. I'm hoping to be able to install them tomorrow afternoon.

I don't think the shims will add any additional duration because the hydraulic lash adjusters will readjust themselves to the proper lash clearance but who knows. I just want it to work

I installed the 220 cams in my 22T as well and did not use any shims. Works well as is, minus low idle vacuum and associated shakes... which my soon to be installed, higher idle, Rob chip should help with.

Cams are cool - more top end for sure, even with the "crappy" 22T heads

Glad to hear you like the cams. That's really why I got them, to help out the top end.

Ya I just tossed my delta 220s in and called it a day no adjustments needed. But let me ask u I read about 12hg of vaccum at an idle. This normal for these cams?

Well....it's been an interesting....read frustrating two days.

Let me first say that not all #10 washers are the same. There are SAE washers and USS washers. SAE #10 washers are about 1/2" OD. USS #10 washers are about .43" or so OD. The lifters diameter is .47" OD. Needless to say the SAE washers won't work, so I had to go get some more SS washers. Pulled the passenger side off again did that one first. It's not fun, but it's doable. The driver's side sucks! Plus since I have my AWIC hoses running along the frame rail that makes it even more difficult. Finally got the driver's side out, the shims in, and the rocker assembly back in. I put the valve cover back on, it looks good from the top, and I check it on the bottom and the valve cover gasket had popped out. So I had to pull the valve cover back off and fix it. Just a note....it's actually easier to get to the valve cover bolts from the bottom than the top.

I worked on things last night......i finally started up the car last night around 8 or so. The ticking was better, but wasn't completely fixed. It sounded like it was coming from the passenger side. I called it an evening and then today pulled the passenger side again. Found one of the lifters was collapsed. Not sure why this one was collapsed, it was fine when I pulled it the first time. It might have been because I didn't crank the motor to prime the oil system again. Anyway, I bled all the lifters on the passenger side, and replaced a few of the shims with thicker shims. Buttoned everything back up, cranked the motor to prime it, and then started her up. I think it's finally fixed. I'll have to drive it around some to see.

Here's some pics of the shims and lifters.

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... adwork/44/

Josh,

Hopefully this works out. If it does, lean out your idle and take some video.....

Yeah I hope it works too. I haven't had any time to run the engine any more or play with the tune, but I need to tweak the tune and the idle....it won't stay idling once it warms up.

Sounds like it might need a little more fuel. Don't be afraid be a little rich of stoich at idle with those cams.


Also, what kind of spark advance are you running at idle? IIRC, I was around 16-17 degrees with those cams.

I'll have to look and see. I haven't had any chance to do anything with the tune.....I updated to the latest firmware last night and now I can't connect to the ECU....so trying to figure that out.

I too had problems with the excessive valve lash, when i installed deltacams. I didnt like the the shims, so i took the rocker assembly to the mashine shop and told them to grind 0.7mm(0.027559 inch) off the rocker assembly support. But some HLA`s are allmost fully extended so maybe 0.75 or 0.8mm would be better.
I did notice that the valve assembly is "louder" with these cams, but that im told is to be expected.

That actually probably would have been a better option. If I would have known this was a potential issue I probably would have looked into that as well. Thanks for sharing!

Dan,

Here's an update on the ECU

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... 89#p365589

Just a quick update on the washers/shims. They have been working fine and I do not have any excess noise caused by the HLA's.

Very Good to know, so I guess I should pick up some #10 SS Washers then. A bunch and try and get very similar thickness.

Also, did you end up replacing or resurfacing your HLA's as specified with Delta Cam Instructions

Yeah, you have to see if you have any clearance issues or not.

No I did not replace or resurface the HLA's.

Ah, I see ( I Think ). Inspect & Bleed HLA's, Install cams. Then check clearances to see if your within spec, if not, install washers

OMG new HLA's :

ADJUSTER CP VALVE LASH
Make: Subaru | Part#: 13230AA110
List Price: $27.73
Your Price: $20.30

Quantity: 1 . x16 = $324.80 + Tax & Shipping

Ya, think I will just be inspecting them then. I do have 32 After all

CFK wrote:Ah, I see ( I Think ). Inspect & Bleed HLA's, Install cams. Then check clearances to see if your within spec, if not, install washers

What you posted may or may not work. It should be pretty obvious on the ones that need shims because there will be clearance between the rocker and the back side of the cam (no lobe). However, if you have some that are just on the edge, the lifters are typically pumped up more after bleeding than during normal operation, so you may still get some noise. If you're in doubt, it's probably best to just stick washers under each lifter.

Forgot to buy some at the good Hardware store, got cam lube. Drove back to another hardware store, they had the correct #10 SS washers that fit, but only 18 of them ! When I got home I realized there 1/32 think and I might need at least 32

How many shims per Rocker did you end up using ? If you recall....

You need at least one per valve, so 16 in total. There were some however I had to use more than one shim, but I decided that on how the clearances looked once I installed them, and ran the motor to see if there was still noise and clearance issues.

I'd start with one set, see how it looks and then go from there.

Perfect, I went with 1 per. Worked out great (appears so anyway ). Did find one faulty HLA , check valve wouldn't seat. Got the "new" cams in. Super stoked !

That would have been terrible to do in car

Thanks again for the help

You're welcome.