legacycentral bbs

Posted: **Sun May 06, 2001 5:38 pm**

Hi all,

I am re-building a twin turbo 5 speed gearbox at the moment, I have a
little problem.

By the way the bits I am having problems with are no different from
other legacy gear boxes.

How many slide pins does the gear box have in the case where the
selector fork rods go into the case? There are three ball bearings on
a spring that get screwed in from the outside of the case.

The reverse idler gear selector has a case iron piece that fits
between two of the selector rods, what does this piece have in it? I
know is has a spring and a slide pin, is that all it has or is there
another slide pin or ball bearing?

Dan

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Posted: **Mon May 07, 2001 1:18 am**

Hi everyone,
This is from an email from Canadian rally group:

It is the synchros that are being chewed up. The fix, is as Pat [Richard]says, change the synchros. We changed them on the Leagacy after every second rally (when we heard a crunch from first to second). The problem is that the synchros get hydro locked. This has been a problem with drag cars in the past, so I asked a friend how they solved the problem. Drag guys would machine a tooth out or they would drill holes in the synchros, this simply allows the fluid to pass arouund the synchro faster. The interesting thing is that one time when we ordered the snychro SOC sent an update part.
Yes, there is actually a Subaru update synchro for the early Legacy, that does have the tooth removed when you receive it, therefore you are completely legal for PGT and P4 (don’t have them here but I can get the update part numbers for those of you running early Legacys). These parts last 6 to 8 events, until you hear the crunch from 1st to 2nd, then we change them. We haven’t been in the transmission of the Impreza’s yet and we haven’t found a Subaru up-grade for them yet.
So folks, re-read Pat’s e:mails, and before you all go off on your next “who’s cheating finger pointing game”, understand what the person is saying. Pat pointed out that it was the synchros that were the problem, and he changes them every event, (now trying to stretch it to every two events). He pointed out that for open cars if you machine the tooth out, this would save the tear down after every event. He also told you that we (Paynter’s / VanGogh) had passed that information along to him. When McGeer drove the car it had a number of DNF’s because of tranny problems, we just figured out why and started changing synchros, got pretty good at it too.
Clarke Paynter

Mark Ward
92 Legacy Rally
www.rrunracing.com <http://www.rrunracing.com/>

I am re-building a twin turbo 5 speed gearbox at the moment, I have a

little problem.

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=190462.1393721.29 ... icated.com> www.debticated.com
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=190462 ... =897649230>

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Posted: **Mon May 07, 2001 2:28 am**

Hi Mark, How much will those up-date kit cost??And whats the parts #??
I have problem on my turbo somehow,when my car at lower rpm in 2nd
gear, it pops out, it just happened sometime when I make a slow turn
and the shifter just pop out to nuturel!!!
If the kit really helps then I think my next big project will be gear
replacement!!!!

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Posted: **Mon May 07, 2001 11:48 am**

I am trying to find out myself. The Payters were running Tom Mcgeers old
Canadian Champion PGT car and it is now owned by two guys on Vancouver
Island. This is a very sorted out rally car and am looking forward to
racing against it at Bighorn Rally and Rocky Mountain Rally.

I was wondering if anyone else has heard of this kit.

Mark
www.rrunracing.com

At 06:19 AM 07/05/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Mark, How much will those up-date kit cost??And whats the parts #??
>I have problem on my turbo somehow,when my car at lower rpm in 2nd
>gear, it pops out, it just happened sometime when I make a slow turn
>and the shifter just pop out to nuturel!!!
>If the kit really helps then I think my next big project will be gear
>replacement!!!!

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Posted: **Mon May 07, 2001 4:30 pm**

The reason I am building a twin turbo gear box is they have twin
baulk rings on second gear, same system they use on the 1997 or newer
Impreza's. This box is the strongest standard gear box Subaru make,
designed for 205Kw.

Does anyone have any answer's to my two questions? Mark maybe?

Daniel

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., Mark Ward <mark@r...> wrote:
> I am trying to find out myself. The Payters were running Tom
Mcgeers old
> Canadian Champion PGT car and it is now owned by two guys on
Vancouver
> Island. This is a very sorted out rally car and am looking forward
to
> racing against it at Bighorn Rally and Rocky Mountain Rally.
>
> I was wondering if anyone else has heard of this kit.
>
> Mark
> www.rrunracing.com
>
>
> At 06:19 AM 07/05/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> >Hi Mark, How much will those up-date kit cost??And whats the parts
#??
> >I have problem on my turbo somehow,when my car at lower rpm in 2nd
> >gear, it pops out, it just happened sometime when I make a slow
turn
> >and the shifter just pop out to nuturel!!!
> >If the kit really helps then I think my next big project will be
gear
> >replacement!!!!

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Posted: **Mon May 07, 2001 4:32 pm**

Can you show me a picture of what these are supposed to look like,
because I think I have a set at home.

Dan

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., Mark Ward <mark@r...> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> This is from an email from Canadian rally group:
>
> It is the synchros that are being chewed up. The fix, is as Pat
> [Richard]says, change the synchros. We changed them on the Leagacy
after
> every second rally (when we heard a crunch from first to second).
The
> problem is that the synchros get hydro locked. This has been a
problem with
> drag cars in the past, so I asked a friend how they solved the
problem.
> Drag guys would machine a tooth out or they would drill holes in
the
> synchros, this simply allows the fluid to pass arouund the synchro
faster.
> The interesting thing is that one time when we ordered the snychro
SOC sent
> an update part.
> Yes, there is actually a Subaru update synchro for the early
Legacy, that
> does have the tooth removed when you receive it, therefore you are
> completely legal for PGT and P4 (don't have them here but I can get
the
> update part numbers for those of you running early Legacys). These
parts
> last 6 to 8 events, until you hear the crunch from 1st to 2nd, then
we
> change them. We haven't been in the transmission of the Impreza's
yet and
> we haven't found a Subaru up-grade for them yet.
> So folks, re-read Pat's e:mails, and before you all go off on your
next
> "who's cheating finger pointing game", understand what the person
is
> saying. Pat pointed out that it was the synchros that were the
problem, and
> he changes them every event, (now trying to stretch it to every two
> events). He pointed out that for open cars if you machine the tooth
out,
> this would save the tear down after every event. He also told you
that we
> (Paynter's / VanGogh) had passed that information along to him.
When McGeer
> drove the car it had a number of DNF's because of tranny problems,
we just
> figured out why and started changing synchros, got pretty good at
it too.
> Clarke Paynter
>
> Mark Ward
> 92 Legacy Rally
> www.rrunracing.com
>
> I am re-building a twin turbo 5 speed gearbox at the moment, I have
a
> >little problem.

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Posted: **Mon May 07, 2001 4:48 pm**

Would this explain why I have the best gearbox as far as shifting goes
that I have ever had? Box came out of a '99 Legacy GT.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., daniel.wilson@d... wrote:
> The reason I am building a twin turbo gear box is they have twin
> baulk rings on second gear, same system they use on the 1997 or
newer
> Impreza's. This box is the strongest standard gear box Subaru make,
> designed for 205Kw.
>
> Does anyone have any answer's to my two questions? Mark maybe?
>
> Daniel
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., Mark Ward <mark@r...> wrote:
> > I am trying to find out myself. The Payters were running Tom
> Mcgeers old
> > Canadian Champion PGT car and it is now owned by two guys on
> Vancouver
> > Island. This is a very sorted out rally car and am looking forward
> to
> > racing against it at Bighorn Rally and Rocky Mountain Rally.
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone else has heard of this kit.
> >
> > Mark
> > www.rrunracing.com
> >
> >
> > At 06:19 AM 07/05/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> > >Hi Mark, How much will those up-date kit cost??And whats the
parts
> #??
> > >I have problem on my turbo somehow,when my car at lower rpm in
2nd
> > >gear, it pops out, it just happened sometime when I make a slow
> turn
> > >and the shifter just pop out to nuturel!!!
> > >If the kit really helps then I think my next big project will be
> gear
> > >replacement!!!!

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Posted: **Tue May 08, 2001 7:58 am**

Yes it most certainly would.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., acroxford@h... wrote:
> Would this explain why I have the best gearbox as far as shifting
goes
> that I have ever had? Box came out of a '99 Legacy GT.
>
>
>

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Posted: **Tue May 08, 2001 8:08 am**

Prompted by your followup message, I have had my 97 GT-B gearbox apart to do
the 4th gear synchro, which by the way is the same style as 2nd gear... a
double baulk ring with integrated taper bearing.

The answers to your two questions are tentative, because of my fading
memory!

Number of slide pins? What exactly are these... I have had the selector
mechanisms out of the box, but don't know what you mean?

I don't think I would have had the cast iron piece apart.... or would I?

Does this link help?
http://decal-co.com/out-flat/mission.html

John Gillon
www.clubsub.org.nz

----- Original Message -----
From: <daniel.wilson@db.co.nz>
To: <BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 9:32 AM
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Gear Boxes

> Hi all,
>
> I am re-building a twin turbo 5 speed gearbox at the moment, I have a
> little problem.
>
> By the way the bits I am having problems with are no different from
> other legacy gear boxes.
>
> How many slide pins does the gear box have in the case where the
> selector fork rods go into the case? There are three ball bearings on
> a spring that get screwed in from the outside of the case.
>
> The reverse idler gear selector has a case iron piece that fits
> between two of the selector rods, what does this piece have in it? I
> know is has a spring and a slide pin, is that all it has or is there
> another slide pin or ball bearing?
>
> Dan
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Posted: **Tue May 08, 2001 4:58 pm**

Link didn't help, I can't read Japanese. You can't even see the
selectors

mmmm, nice that box would be nice.

The slide pins, you may not realise that they are there, if you have
a look into the holes in the case where the selector rods go you will
see two sausage shaped slide pins.

Do note that the 3rd/4th selector rod has a small pin in it which
falls out very easy and is easily lost.

I have the answer now, There are two slide pins. These are in the
case between the three selector rods, plus a small pin that fits
inside the small hole in the end of the 3rd/4th selector rod.

The cast iron piece, you only have to take this off when you remove
the 3rd/4th & 5th/Rev selectors rods from the case. This piece has a
spring and a ball bearing and one slide pin which is located between
the the two selector rods.

Dan

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "JohnnyG" <grilla@i...> wrote:
> Prompted by your followup message, I have had my 97 GT-B gearbox
apart to do
> the 4th gear synchro, which by the way is the same style as 2nd
gear... a
> double baulk ring with integrated taper bearing.
>
> The answers to your two questions are tentative, because of my
fading
> memory!
>
> Number of slide pins? What exactly are these... I have had the
selector
> mechanisms out of the box, but don't know what you mean?
>
> I don't think I would have had the cast iron piece apart.... or
would I?
>
> Does this link help?
> http://decal-co.com/out-flat/mission.html
>
> John Gillon
> www.clubsub.org.nz

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Posted: **Wed May 09, 2001 8:08 pm**

Hi All,

Does that mean a manual gearbox out of a '99 Legacy GT will bolt straight into my 1993 Liberty RS Turbo???

I am having problems with the standard gearbox at the moment (crunching in 2nd and 4th) and am looking at the various options available for a long term solution but don't want to go overboard. I already have a MY99 WRX spec uprated clutch and lightened flywheel courtesy of MRT. I have been quoted a twin turbo Legacy gearbox from the local wreckers for AUS$ 2,200 and an older Legacy RS gearbox for AUS$1,500.

Does anyone know what ratio's the gearing of the Twin Turbo boxes are??

Cheers

Chris
RS1993 (some mods)

Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 111:27 -0000
From: daniel.wilson@db.co.nz
Subject: Re: Gear Boxes

Yes it most certainly would.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., acroxford@h... wrote:
> Would this explain why I have the best gearbox as far as shifting
goes
> that I have ever had? Box came out of a '99 Legacy GT.
>
>
>

Posted: **Thu May 10, 2001 12:18 am**

As a interim,
change your gearbox oil to Castrol
EPX 85W-140 and 2 tubes of Nulon.
My second gear crunch is gone.
I tried all types of gearbox oils. inc. synthetics but crunch remained,
nothing worked.
Regards, Rod.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Bresnehan" <cbresnehan@garrisons.com.au>
To: <BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 103 AM
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] RE: Gear Boxes

>
> Hi All,
>
> Does that mean a manual gearbox out of a '99 Legacy GT will bolt
> straight into my 1993 Liberty RS Turbo???
>
> I am having problems with the standard gearbox at the moment
> (crunching in 2nd and 4th) and am looking at the various options available
> for a long term solution but don't want to go overboard. I already have a
> MY99 WRX spec uprated clutch and lightened flywheel courtesy of MRT. I
have
> been quoted a twin turbo Legacy gearbox from the local wreckers for AUS$
> 2,200 and an older Legacy RS gearbox for AUS$1,500.
>
> Does anyone know what ratio's the gearing of the Twin Turbo boxes
> are??
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
> RS1993 (some mods)
>
> > Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 111:27 -0000
> > From: daniel.wilson@db.co.nz
> > Subject: Re: Gear Boxes
> >
> > Yes it most certainly would.
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., acroxford@h... wrote:
> > > Would this explain why I have the best gearbox as far as shifting
> > goes
> > > that I have ever had? Box came out of a '99 Legacy GT.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Posted: **Thu May 10, 2001 1:59 am**

Hi Rod,

I went through exactly the same problems and I am currently running
Castrol 85W-140 and two tubes of Nulon G70 after you suggested it
once before on another egroup ([wrx] I think??).

It's a bit stiff when it's cold, especially now it's winter (I'm in
Tasmania), excellent when it is warm but then goes a little crunchy
after sessions of spirited driving. (e.g. Targa Tasmania Stages)

This has been fine as an interim measure but now I am searching for a
more permanent (read "expensive") fix.

Cheers

Chris

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Rod" <melrod@o...> wrote:
> As a interim,
> change your gearbox oil to Castrol
> EPX 85W-140 and 2 tubes of Nulon.
> My second gear crunch is gone.
> I tried all types of gearbox oils. inc. synthetics but crunch
remained,
> nothing worked.
> Regards, Rod.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Bresnehan" <cbresnehan@g...>
> To: <BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...>
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 103 AM
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] RE: Gear Boxes
>
>
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Does that mean a manual gearbox out of a '99 Legacy GT will bolt
> > straight into my 1993 Liberty RS Turbo???
> >
> > I am having problems with the standard gearbox at the moment
> > (crunching in 2nd and 4th) and am looking at the various options
available
> > for a long term solution but don't want to go overboard. I
already have a
> > MY99 WRX spec uprated clutch and lightened flywheel courtesy of
MRT. I
> have
> > been quoted a twin turbo Legacy gearbox from the local wreckers
for AUS$
> > 2,200 and an older Legacy RS gearbox for AUS$1,500.
> >
> > Does anyone know what ratio's the gearing of the Twin Turbo boxes
> > are??
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Chris
> > RS1993 (some mods)
> >
> > > Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 111:27 -0000
> > > From: daniel.wilson@d...
> > > Subject: Re: Gear Boxes
> > >
> > > Yes it most certainly would.
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., acroxford@h... wrote:
> > > > Would this explain why I have the best gearbox as far as
shifting
> > > goes
> > > > that I have ever had? Box came out of a '99 Legacy GT.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

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Posted: **Thu May 10, 2001 4:18 pm**

Yes pretty much. You will need to check your ratio's most of the
newer cars are 4.4:1 your liberty is most likely 4.1:1, therefore you
would also be required to by a new diff. Now the older diffs have a
spline with removable inner CV's and the newer boxes have the inner
CV's as part of the diff, so if you go for the newer diff you will
need to buy new axles because the axles are different lengths, and
you may also need to buy a complete rear driveline, not sure about
that one though.

I was lucky and located a 4.1:1 ratio out of a 1994 twin turbo, so
didn't need to change the rear driveline.

Damn that is expensive, I got my twin turbo box from a wrecker for
$600.00 and it has cost me a further $1,100 to fully rebuild it.
You should buy one from NZ and ship it back, sounds much cheaper.

Have a look around for a 1997 or newer WRX gearbox as these have the
same setup as the twin turbo, the wreckers may not realise this and
you may be able to pick these up cheaper.

I wouldn't pay more than a grand for a second hand gearbox from the
wrecker because you don't know what condition it is in, and niether
do they really.

The ratios depend on which year.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., Chris Bresnehan <cbresnehan@g...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Does that mean a manual gearbox out of a '99 Legacy GT will
bolt
> straight into my 1993 Liberty RS Turbo???
>
> I am having problems with the standard gearbox at the moment
> (crunching in 2nd and 4th) and am looking at the various options
available
> for a long term solution but don't want to go overboard. I already
have a
> MY99 WRX spec uprated clutch and lightened flywheel courtesy of
MRT. I have
> been quoted a twin turbo Legacy gearbox from the local wreckers for
AUS$
> 2,200 and an older Legacy RS gearbox for AUS$1,500.
>
> Does anyone know what ratio's the gearing of the Twin Turbo
boxes
> are??
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
> RS1993 (some mods)
>
> > Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 111:27 -0000
> > From: daniel.wilson@d...
> > Subject: Re: Gear Boxes
> >
> > Yes it most certainly would.
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., acroxford@h... wrote:
> > > Would this explain why I have the best gearbox as far as
shifting
> > goes
> > > that I have ever had? Box came out of a '99 Legacy GT.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

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