Chip for stock ECU!

stipro · Post by **stipro** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:30 am

Keep us posted!. This is beginning to sound like music to my ears

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:44 am

What would you charge for someone to be able to tune it themselves? There is such a variance with what people do to these things, it impossible for you to have tunes available for everyone.

TurboBeater · Post by **TurboBeater** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:41 am

So it seems like most people would need at least Stage 2 or higher. I don't know if a DIY tuning solution is in the works, hopefully the Stage X chip will have enough options for most people.

I'm going to put on a JECS MAF tomorrow, I'm excited! Also have a Nissan one if I need more.

94SS_Canada · Post by **94SS_Canada** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:19 am

TurboBeater are you still associated with them after your tune?

If not, you should go down there and talk to them about us, i already emailed them i plan on going through B.C for a cruise and id stop by there on my way through!

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:41 am

That's what I'm getting at, is that Stage X does not account for many people. People's setups are so different, that running a mail order tune is foolish in some cases.

Providing customers with a way to customize their own tune and grow with it might be more in their best interest, and yours, if the developer produces an interface that is workable.

Don't get me wrong. I have no interest in this software as my tuning needs were covered a long time ago with a decent standalone. I just happen to know a few people that are looking for a system that they can grow with for some time, and not be dependant on some "tuner" thousands of miles away.

94SS_Canada · Post by **94SS_Canada** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:59 pm

Well, youve got some valid points there. But for people who dont have the time, skill, money to go with a fully standalone ECU this is the best option. The tuner said they have parts laying around that they will test on the car for an optimal tune so its not completly computer generated tune.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:21 pm

Fair enough. I'm not trying to take away from your staged tunes at all. They would be very convienient for someone without the time and what not, and I totally respect that.

I'm just saying that if they could come up with something for, lets say around Accessport type money, and have the ability to tune it themselves, you could get business from a bunch of people that would have been forced to buy standalones. It would be gravy (like KFC

) if you could slap this board in, hook up to your laptop, and scale for whatever MAF or injectors you want, and tune away. I would have seriously considered it when I was in the market for an ECU.

But, I know would probably be a nice chunk of work to make happen, and there is a reason Link, Hydra, Autronic and whoever else get the money they do for their products. The ECU's physically aren't that expensive to make, but they have a ton of time invested into developing these things.

94SS_Canada · Post by **94SS_Canada** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:26 pm

Yap, But im cheap, So i like this idea

Anyways its to cramped under the Dash to wire that stuff in under there.

IronMonkeyL255 · Post by **IronMonkeyL255** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:36 am

I would DEFINITELY buy a user tuneable version if it were available.

impreza_GC8 · Post by **impreza_GC8** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:51 am

I want it but there is no way it would work for me. It needs to be more programmable for particular mods. I would purchase this, seriously, it is the exact thing I have been waiting for, but I have a hybrid setup that very few people have.
I have EJ22T ECU with EJ25 block/heads/pistons, EJ22T crank/rods, VF8 w/ TMIC and 440's.

TurboBeater · Post by **TurboBeater** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:51 am

Yeah good points mentioned by 93forestpearl, maybe instead of the Stage X chip we could have something flash-based, where the user just plugs in the laptop to make real-time tuning changes. Of course it would cost more and take a while to develop the software plus manufacturing lead time on the circuitry. Right now its soooo not user friendly to tune this thing. What's a Cobb AP cost these days? $700? I'm sure we could do better than that. Would love to hear any ideas you guys have too. Your voices are not going unheard!

94SS_Canada is right too, I'm going to be swapping different turbos on the car to cover the most common combos. I'm kinda itching for an EJ20G or EJ25D head swap too. We'll see how it goes. The Staged chips are meant to take care of people who don't have the knowledge, or time, or equipment to do the tuning themselves. To do it properly yourself you need at least a wideband, EGT, and laptop. The convenience of just plugging in a chip is beneficial to them.

Another option if you're close to Vancouver, is to bring your car and get a custom tune done by Revtronix.

OK, gotta get working on the car. MAF goes on tonight and STI 550cc injectors and pump for tomorrow. Should get lots done this long weekend!

PhyrraM · Post by **PhyrraM** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:07 am

Base the "chip" on a daughterboard that plugs into the ECU EPROM socket. Design this board to essentially be a EPROM emulator w/USB support.

This one board could be the basis for staged packages.

Stage 1-2, Burned EPROM, no adjustability. Leave the USB interface unsoldered for cost reasons. Users can send unit back to tuner for upgrade to Stage 3.

Stage 3, Flashed based, Upgradeable with a Tuner provided file.

Stage 4=Stage 3 board+software sold to user. Lets the user upgrade a Stage 3 board with specs controlled by the software.

At the stage 4 point it basically becomes the equivalent of a standalone, limited only by the software developement. The USB interface can be used for datalogging at refresh rates far surpassing the Select monitor interface. Once you stop using the Select Monitor interface you can free that EPROM space for more advanced features (launch control, anti-lag, etc.)

A bit of a dreamer, but you get the idea. Go with a EPROM emulator design over simple burned PROMS.

IronMonkeyL255 · Post by **IronMonkeyL255** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:41 am

PhyrraM wrote:Base the "chip" on a daughterboard that plugs into the ECU EPROM socket. Design this board to essentially be a EPROM emulator w/USB support.

This one board could be the basis for staged packages.

Stage 1-2, Burned EPROM, no adjustability. Leave the USB interface unsoldered for cost reasons. Users can send unit back to tuner for upgrade to Stage 3.

Stage 3, Flashed based, Upgradeable with a Tuner provided file.

Stage 4=Stage 3 board+software sold to user. Lets the user upgrade a Stage 3 board with specs controlled by the software.

At the stage 4 point it basically becomes the equivalent of a standalone, limited only by the software developement. The USB interface can be used for datalogging at refresh rates far surpassing the Select monitor interface. Once you stop using the Select Monitor interface you can free that EPROM space for more advanced features (launch control, anti-lag, etc.)

A bit of a dreamer, but you get the idea. Go with a EPROM emulator design over simple burned PROMS.

Damn.

Sounds like a plan.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:10 am

PhyrraM wrote:Base the "chip" on a daughterboard that plugs into the ECU EPROM socket. Design this board to essentially be a EPROM emulator w/USB support.

This one board could be the basis for staged packages.

Stage 1-2, Burned EPROM, no adjustability. Leave the USB interface unsoldered for cost reasons. Users can send unit back to tuner for upgrade to Stage 3.

Stage 3, Flashed based, Upgradeable with a Tuner provided file.

Stage 4=Stage 3 board+software sold to user. Lets the user upgrade a Stage 3 board with specs controlled by the software.

At the stage 4 point it basically becomes the equivalent of a standalone, limited only by the software developement. The USB interface can be used for datalogging at refresh rates far surpassing the Select monitor interface. Once you stop using the Select Monitor interface you can free that EPROM space for more advanced features (launch control, anti-lag, etc.)

A bit of a dreamer, but you get the idea. Go with a EPROM emulator design over simple burned PROMS.

I like where you are going with this.

When you can tune in real time, it is soooooo nice. I don't think anyone has figured how Cobb does it with the Accessport either. One thing I do really love about my Link is that every keystroke takes effect instantly, unlike using RomRaider and what not. Say I'm tuning my light load stuff, I can see the effects instantly through my afr's or whatever. This may be a pipe dream though.

I'll have to ponder this a little more...

94SS_Canada · Post by **94SS_Canada** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:18 am

Like anything, We have to all wait. I suspect in a months time there will be something solid we all can get our greasy hands on.

n2x4 · Post by **n2x4** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:55 pm

I think we're pretty lucky to finally have someone make a chip for us. These cars have been around for about 18 years.

I know we're just planning here, but to be reasonable I think that for 85% of us legacy guys preprogrammed chips would work.

I think that at this point it would be useful to make a list of the most common setups that guys are running right now. I don't know if the Revtronix guys are reading this thread, or if Turbobeater could send it back to them, I think it would probably get the development in the right direction knowing what guys are actually running. I've seen a lot of setups on here, and I don't think a lot of them had VF-22 use. I know a lot of these setups will be close (i.e. turbo size and flow), but a list would still be good. Feel free to chime in if I've missed any, we'll compile a master list when we've run out of common setups. Maybe even a poll for these setups to see who actually has which one currently, or which one we'd like to see the most?
This is all assuming the basics have been done (exhaust, intercooler). I'm not sure which of these setups would benefit from an upgraded MAF (probably most of them) so feel free to comment!:

Stock with TD04
Stock with VF12
440cc injectors, VF10
440cc injectors, VF8
440cc injectors, VF39
440cc injectors, TD05 16G
550cc injectors, TD05 16G

2.5L heads, 440cc injectors, VF8
2.5L heads, 440cc injectors, VF39
2.5L heads, 440cc injectors, TD05 16G
2.5L heads, 550cc injectors, TD05 16G

And on our "wishlist" of features for the chip: Launch Control, Anti-Lag, BOV support (so it doesn't run rich when vented to ATM), and on-the-fly USB tuning support. And I don't want this taken as us being unhappy with what Revtronix is doing, but I think that since it's still in the early stages of development now is the time to listen to customer input!

PhyrraM · Post by **PhyrraM** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:16 pm

More food for thought.

The factory MAF tops out soon after factory HP. The factory MAP sensor also tops out about 15-17 psi.

I could go for a chip that requires a JECS MAF. Those are cheap, affordable and plug right in. (yes, I know about the code that gets thrown)

Has anybody tried a JECS MAF, 440cc injectors and the factory EJ22t ECU with no other management? My expirements with the Power FC suggest that this particualr combo might be just as effective as any 'generic, one fits all, non-dyno' tune.

cj91legss · Post by **cj91legss** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:01 pm

Count me in on a Chip too.

TurboBeater · Post by **TurboBeater** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:06 am

Well, JECS MAF tuning was a success. There is no error code now, and the wideband sensor matches up exactly to the original Hitachi MAF. Didn't have time to do the injectors today.

The JECS MAF maxes out at 217 g/s (420cfm), so it will cover the smaller turbos like the TD04. I also have various Nissan MAFs which will support the larger ones. For reference, Hitachi MAF maxes out at 160 g/s (312cfm).

It looks like we'll scrap the original Stage X plan, and replace that with the real-time tunable board. The other staged chips will remain on a separate board to reduce cost to the customers, but they are still upgradeable by sending them in.

As for supporting different mods, here's whats going to be covered so far:
- Any size injectors
- MAFs: JECS, Nissan N60, N62, P60
- Turbos: TD04, VF11, VF22, VF39, TD05-16G (which one?)
- Heads: possibly 2.5 DOHC
- MAP sensor: stock, 2.5 bar, 3 bar
- Anti-lag (functions are built-in to the ECU but disabled)
- Launch control

BOV support might be included in the user-tunable version only.

For the VF8, VF10, VF12 does any one have compressor maps? Don't want to push the turbo outside its operating range.

PhilSine · Post by **PhilSine** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:44 am

What about the GT3071R and 850cc injectors?

Posted mostly for the auto-subscribe.

Imagine what you have to do to make 400 whp and now you know what I'm going to do.

I'm no stranger to tuning so I'll want a set-up that I can hook to my laptop and fully tune.

GeneralDisorder · Post by **GeneralDisorder** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:57 am

Count me in for one.

+1 on the TD05-16G, larger injectors and MAF for my setup.

GD

n2x4 · Post by **n2x4** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:07 pm

TurboBeater wrote: - Anti-lag (functions are built-in to the ECU but disabled)

You mean my car wanted to shoot fireballs out the exhaust but Subaru didn't let it

I'll see if I can dig up a VF8 map. That one would be useful to me.

RJ93SS · Post by **RJ93SS** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:22 pm

i'm so happy i live in vancouver

cj91legss · Post by **cj91legss** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:29 pm

I don't plan on doing too much yet as far as big injectors or turbo. Maybe for me a chip that would support just a tdo4 and legacy turbo injectors would be fine. i would be more into the chip specifically to raise the fuel cut and factory boost level

TurboBeater · Post by **TurboBeater** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:01 pm

This is great! I'm going to make a list of everyone who has replied so far and which chip we will have to work with their mods.

For the 16g, I'm assuming most are going to be using the 90 deg inlet one, right? There are a few different versions available.

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Chip for stock ECU!