GM Bash

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:01 am

Since I had so much fun jacking a thread with this topic, I figured it should be on its own. Most people I talk to don't care for GM, but few understand the real reason why they suck so much - the fact that they have so much potential not to suck!

But don't let this be limited to just GM, if you have something to really get off your chest.

Did anyone see spy shots of the next Vette? They changed the scoop on the side a little...

Steve

91White-T · Post by **91White-T** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:05 am

Looks alright IMO, nothing super nice...

91White-T · Post by **91White-T** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:11 am

A couple more...

If you'll look closely at this last pic, you'll notice that GM STILL insists on putting their STUPID ASS shifter button on top thing even in their top of the line flagship car! Also that interior bears a strinking resemblance to a Fiero... On the plus side, the oh-shit bar running across the passenger's side of the dash is finally gone!

123c · Post by **123c** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:13 am

I hate GM, except for the fact that they can build a decent full size truck...

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:15 am

I was exaggerating, but I just wish they'd do something a lot more inspired like the original Sting Rays (inspired by the Mako Shark hanging in, I think, Bill Mitchell's office). To me it's a shame that now that Corvette's are world class cars they don't necessarily look it. Maybe if they did I higher end version with unique bodywork, I don't know - it's just too evolutionary for me (not that I'd like a BMW revolution, either).

Steve

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:23 am

I like the headlights, and I like GM a hell of a lot more than piece of shit fords

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:24 am

So far I like the Chevy Tahoe I just recently traded in the wifes Forester for. My dad still has an old 79 (I think) Suburban that he uses as a field truck and the thing is a f**king tank! He beats the shit out of that thing and it just keeps going. He did finally rebuild the tranny a year or two ago and the engine was rebuilt a while back too but besides that he's done very little to it. I'm not a big GM fan or anything but I like their big stuff.

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:35 am

Looks like they're taking styling cues for the new Vette from Mazda's new RX-8.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:15 am

LaureltheQueen "and I like GM a hell of a lot more than piece of shit fords"

Which products do you refer to? If you mean the full size trucks then you are mistaken. I test drove nearly every full size (even the 9/10 size toyota) and compared to dodge and ford the GM wasnt very good. Suspension wasnt as good, interior wasnt as good. The only advantage they head was in power but the dodge was available with the Hemi so they still loose.

Although I always wanted a CHP Chevy Caprice the Crown Vic is still the better car compared to the GM offerings.

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:56 am

I'm 99% sure Laurel was referring to the cars. . . as that's what would be directly-linked to 99% of the conversations up here.

Trucks are altogether different. . . all the domestics are still bad, though.

Yay for the Tundra!

Only Ford car you'd ever see me in would be a Mustang. And that's ONLY because of their upper-end model performance potential. (SVT Cobra, Saleen, etc)

Still wouldn't count on too many Ford, Dodge or Chevy cars for daily transportation, though.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:05 am

Tundra? Thats a girls truck.

import_freak · Post by **import_freak** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:21 am

I cant really bad mouth GM too much. Cause i come from a GM family dad drives an 01 impala, mom a 00 safari, brother a 98 monte carlo, and thats not counting the rest of my family. They're all nice vehicles (even though the sooby can whip them all

). I'd still take a subaru or a toyota over them. I used to drive around in an 88 camry and an 87 toy 4x4 until i traded it in for the sooby (the truck that is). Of course my brother had to total the camry last weekend. He's fine, but but that car was in immaculate condition hardly a speck of rust and only 70K miles on her. now she's gone down the poop hole. Oh well im getting off topic.
But ya i agree the only ford i would ever drive would be a mustang.

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:27 am

ciper wrote:Tundra? Thats a girls truck.

It's also the first import full-size that actually beats the homegrown competition in many categories.

And you'll seldom, if ever, hear about one having the kinds of the problems with drivetrain and paint like the Big 3.

Was just in my installer's bay two days ago. He was working on a Ford F-250 Super Duty. Said it's the biggest piece of shit to work on, except for a few little things. One of the other customers he had in the week before was driving a Toyota Tacoma. Brought it in for an alarm and stereo after having just purchased it. Apparently, the F-250 he had. . . which was also a 2003 mind you . . . . went through FOUR transmissions in one year. . . and the rear tires wend bald after 5,000 miles or so. (Apparently, the suspension never was put together correctly from the factory) "Never again" the customer told him.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:36 am

Everyone has a bad story about some vehicle.

All I have to say is rent one and beat the hell out of it. Thats when you learn which is best. I have to say that a rented f-250 4x4 was more fun than any of the others.

Its alot better than test drives because the vehicle is already broken in and you dont have a salesman stairing at you. Plus you can take it to nearly any condition you like.

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 7:05 am

G*d Danggit Chevy!! Bring back the fender bulges... at least a hood bulge. Those say power. Give me a 71 Stingray all day. I think that's around the year with the most pronounced fender bulges coming above the hood and trunk line. That front end could be confused for a 50 hp Miata (in the picture at least).

Overall, Corvettes are the most performance per dollar vehicle you can get. Yes, you can do work to a turbo import and make it just about as fast... but if you do a little work to a ZR-1... watch out. There is no replacement for displacement... especially when you can boost them with a jackson centrifugal supercharger custom made for that engine! 12 seconds in the quarter mile and over 1 g on the skidpad, gotta hand it to them...

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 7:37 am

I can appreciate Vettes even though I'm a guy who actually knows at least a couple things about cars and I agree. I have a model here of a 67 and if you take the wheels out of the picture, the A-pillar forward (incl the A-pillar as a dorsal fin) is a perfect shark! Now what about that for design inspiration instead of derivative blah? The new Vette would look fine as a new Miata, as Brat4X4 said, but I think the Vette should be its own entity - maybe like a little more conservative TVR that doesn't fall apart (from things I've read, no personal knowledge of any Wheeler-era TVR).

And, dammit, a new Grand National... And NOT fwd! Even working on GM cars is a nightmare. People still buy them under the delusion that they're easier to work on than foreign cars. Maybe European cars, but definitely not most of the Japanese I've worked on (certainly not Subaru) and the Japanese don't need to be worked on nearly as much, anyway.

Even their customer service is better - I read about Camrys that were blowing engines because of a marginal oil passage that would become clogged when oil changes were grossly neglected. Even though it was the customer's fault, Toyota replaced the engines free of charge. My aunt tried to get a transmission replaced on her Ford 200 miles over warranty (that's right 2 hundred) and they finally agreed to only half. A friend's mother almost killed a kid and herself for multiple electrical issues on her '96 Delta 88 that would cause random things to fail (incl the car to shut down) while driving around. It took over a year and she ended up having to sell it - they only covered a few things as warranty, but the problem kept repeating and walking to multiple systems, yet they refusd to take it as a lemon. Out of these three stories, which customers do you think will buy that same make of car again?

Another book... Maybe I should start writing poems...

Steve

91White-T · Post by **91White-T** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:47 pm

evolutionmovement wrote: And, dammit, a new Grand National...

Not gonna happen... unless Buick wants to get back into NASCAR.

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:41 pm

hmmm... if only they could come out with cars like the updated Impala SS. My bro had one of those and it was a sweet car... and i'm not even big into that kind of stuff (unless it is fast, which it was).

hopefully the new GTO will be an actual fire-breather, we'll see.

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 9:37 pm

it's a Holden. of course it will be badass.

QuickDrive · Post by **QuickDrive** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:14 pm

I'm no fan of GM really, but I have to give props to the 2003 z24 (only because my girlfriend owns one)

But seriously, My boss owns a 2002 Firehawk convertible and I must say that car is fun to drive, nothing much around this little place to look at so when this car drives by it can turn heads.

That's all I have to say for GM

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 12:40 am

The GTO is cool in name, and the performance isn't bad, really. It will do 0-60 in 5.3 I think. The thing is it doesn't have the hood scoops, and it looks more low key than some of Pontiac's other cars. You'd think they'd make the GTO be more of a head turner. I'm a bit dissappointed in it, especially since the GTO is like one of my favorate cars ever.

-Ryan

91White-T · Post by **91White-T** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 12:42 am

Brat4by4 wrote:hopefully the new GTO will be an actual fire-breather, we'll see.

It's not... 14 flat, maybe high 13's at best. Same price as 04 Cobra which runs high/mid 12s... The GTO is going nowhere, I bet they only make it one year.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:45 am

If it continues to a second year it will be by a following of GTO fanatics, and they will have to up the anti for the car to continue, also.

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:38 am

the WS-6 package is truly a fire-breather. holy crap. there is a guy around here that has one supercharged...

No matter how much of a "hillbilly sportscar" a camaro and firebird may be... you always have to respect the Z28, SS, & WS-6 badges. They might not be graceful in corners but they will burn up a piece of straight road. Sorry about the mustang guys... the v-8 drop-top GT puts like 150 horse to the ground

... and please don't tell me about their special packages that cost more than an entry level Vette

.

I don't think you can beat Chevy for cheap straight-line power... RIP Camaro & Firebird.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 8:17 am

I have to reluctantly agree - despite the piss poor build quality and rediculously inefficient packaging, those F-bodies weren't that bad. They even handled pretty well if the road was flat and I've driven stock V8 Camaros and a 4.6 Mustang Cobra and I have to say the Mustang was very weak in comparison and a huge disappointment in general.

Steve

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