I think I'm done....

This is for non-Subaru related topics. Keep it realistic please.

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BAC5.2
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I think I'm done....

Post by BAC5.2 »

I think I'm done modding the Legacy.

Seriously modding anyway. I don't know that I will go through with my original plans.

I recently thought about the $13,000 build I was planning, and that's excessive. Even for me.

I think what I am going to do, is start saving, and investing, and keep the car as it is until shit breaks.

I would love a new car for the reliability, and the fact that it would be a new car.

I guess I am just thinking out loud right now. I would love to put down my goals of 375whp and 375lb-ft in the Legacy, but at the same time.... The car is 11 years old, starting to Rust, and $13,000 is a hefty downpayment on an STi.

I will never sell, or part out, the Legacy though. Stay back vultures, that 16G ain't goin NOWHERE :)

I dunno, anyone have any thoughts or comments? I make a good amount of money, so I could reasonably afford to buy a new car and still have play time money and investing money left over. What do you guys think?
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Post by tris91ricer »

Dooooo it!
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Post by tris91ricer »

Phil, when it comes to your car, you have shown us some amazing resolve. There's nothing you can't do if you really want to do it.


..but buy some sunscreen with all that money, okay?
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Post by evolutionmovement »

I'd leave it alone and buy something else. Make a Lotus 7 replica, maybe. A new guy at work has a Birkin (and a Europa and an S2 Elan). Funny thing is that I had raced this guy in my '84 wagon when he had an Isuzu I-Mark over 10 years ago. It was the most fun I ever had losing.

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Post by 206er »

yeah I agree. sink the money into a different, really wild project, and keep the legacy your DD. a locost would be really sweet, but maybe start a GC8 or something.
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Post by dzx »

The legacy just isnt really a practical car to make fast. The drivetrain loss, weight, and lack of aftermarket parts and a strong transmission make it difficult.
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Post by G-reg »

I would have loved to mod my Legacy more and do some rally cross, but reality and money said I need something more reliable. I do to many 1000mi+ trips to be driving an under-funded project car. So for about what the Legacy cost to maintain, I got the RS. I would have loved to keep the Leggy AND get the RS so I'd have a project car and transportation, but at this point in my life that's not happening. I'd say keep your car reliable and enjoy the hell out of it until you are in a position where you can have your cake and rally it too.
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Post by scottzg »

I agree. You already have very respectable performance with minimal loss of utility. Huge $$$ /= huge fun, necessarily. Keep it on the road and keep it in good shape!
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Re: I think I'm done....

Post by kelley »

BAC5.2 wrote:I think I'm done modding the Legacy.

Seriously modding anyway. I don't know that I will go through with my original plans.

I recently thought about the $13,000 build I was planning, and that's excessive. Even for me.

I think what I am going to do, is start saving, and investing, and keep the car as it is until shit breaks.

I would love a new car for the reliability, and the fact that it would be a new car.

I guess I am just thinking out loud right now. I would love to put down my goals of 375whp and 375lb-ft in the Legacy, but at the same time.... The car is 11 years old, starting to Rust, and $13,000 is a hefty downpayment on an STi.

I will never sell, or part out, the Legacy though. Stay back vultures, that 16G ain't goin NOWHERE :)

I dunno, anyone have any thoughts or comments? I make a good amount of money, so I could reasonably afford to buy a new car and still have play time money and investing money left over. What do you guys think?
I think the sti would be a good choice. that is why I "origanally" chose it. it's one of the only new cars you can buy and have fun with it stock. then I started making it better. but i'm crazy forget about that.
keep the legacy then you can save up and build the car right.
get the sti and have fun with it stock.
yes a car with that many miles needs to have parts replaced. especially when you are makeing more power you exploit those weaknesses quick. with an older car you have more to think about than your normal performance upgrades.
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Post by BAC5.2 »

Thanks for all the input guys.

I think I'm going to back down the boost, maybe build a megasquirt and some 440cc injectors so I can at least keep it running at 16psi (at 9psi the 16G is barely faster than the stock turbo at 1bar).

Now that I am making the power that I wanted to when I first got the car (almost), I realize how expensive it is for the Legacy. I wouldn't say it's a dumb car to want to make fast. I have every opportunity to do what's never really been done to throw down more than twice the stock numbers at the wheels. It's a good car to keep quiet and not get bothered.

As I've seen in the real world, the Legacy turns all the right heads. I constantly am asked what's under the hood, or if I swapped, or what I run in the 1/4, and people always telling me about how cool the Legacy is.

That's why it's so hard to give up. I like having something that doesn't fit the same mold. I like being one of the top 10 power producers at a meet, with 8 times the miles of everyone else. I like being the old-schooler of the bunch. I love hanging out with my Suby friends, and I love being unique with the Legacy.

That's my problem with getting an STi. Sure it would be the performance I'm looking for from the Legacy, but it would be just like everyone else. It's so hard to be unique with a car like that. You are either stage1, 2, 3, 4, or 4+. They all look the same, because all of the parts are homogonized, it's hard to be different unless you have a MONSTER.

That reason alone makes me want a WRX Wagon, but I don't want to deal with the inevitable transmission issues of the WRX. If I could get an STi wagon, without building one, I would.

I love the Legacy. I love being able to spin all 4. I hate worrying about blowing the shit up, every time I go on boost. She's, by far, the best car I have ever had.

I don't know what I want to do at this point. I think I'll just wait it out and see what happens.

Lol, maybe if I win the lottery, I'll build the Legacy AND get an STi. First person to have a Legacy out power his STi.... Wait... Sorry Kelley... SECOND person to have that.
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Post by azn2nr »

if you have money to realisticly afford a new car than go right on ahead.

i thought i was done last summer but now im not sure where i am. in actualaty i want to get a new car but i want to keep it legacy. to get to where i want to would cost a little more than 5 grand. is that worth it? im not sure. it would still be less than a new car and should give an sti a run for its money.

in all seriousness. if you can afford it, go for it. if it will be tight and youll have to make sacrifices than it might not be worth it. at this point for me i can buy a new car but it will be tight for a long time with the extra insurance and stuff that goes along with a new car and school too.

you said that you make a good deal of money and if your good deal is more than enough than congradulations(sp)
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Post by BAC5.2 »

Well, I think I could swing a car payment and an insurance payment and still have some breathing room. I don't think it would be TIGHT, but it would be a little snug for the first few months.
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Post by G-reg »

The insurance on my RS is a few hundred more a year over the Legacy when I was financing it. I didn't get the ABS/Airbag/high safty rating deductions on the Leggy, and I only financed 15K on the new Suby.
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Post by AWD_addict »

evolutionmovement wrote:A new guy at work has a Birkin
Steve
My uncle has a Birkin. That was a very fun car to drive, connection to the road like no other. Foot well was too small though, had to take off my right shoe to drive it, so the amount of heat coming through gave a bit of a hot foot. Nice to sit so low you can reach out and put your palm flat on the road surface (watch out for the side pipes!). Too bad his NOS bottle was empty at the time, I really wanted to see that in action. Not like it needed it anyway.

+1 for getting a Birkin
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Post by evolutionmovement »

The only thing besides cellphone women in SUVs to worry about he says is the rocks from the tires.

Steve
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Post by legacy92ej22t »

Phil- Is this because of what we were talking about in our e-mails? :?

I think that a heavily modded SS would be sweet but when thinking about dumping around 13G's into an old car it gets tricky.

The thing is that it IS cool to be the only guy in a big crowd with an old Leggy that out performs most of the others though. It does show originality too. Everyone and their mom has a modded rex and STI's are a dime a dozen. Plus it's such a sleeper that the average asshat isn't going to know what hit 'em, which is uber cool.

If you're going to do it though you have to do it right. And that means full body restoration and rebuild. IMO you pretty much would need to gut the car down to the bare shell. Fix all rust the right way, put a heavy coating on it and full paint. Then pretty much build from the ground up with all new parts. Make it show quality and extremely sharp. You can't just spend 13G's on go fast bits and be falling apart while pulling low 10's down the strip. Hehe, ya know what I mean?

It would be a huge commitment and a huge project but it would sure be cooler then a fresh off the lot, out of the box, just like all the rest, rocket.

But then again, that's an assload of work and a huge investment. I mean, that is a lot of money...
-Matt

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Post by BAC5.2 »

I agree Matt, I would need to build the WHOLE car, and that is DEFINATELY an investment I can't make. We would be talking nearly 22,000 for a COMPLETE build.

Now, $22,000 is a lot of the way to an STi.

That's why I am thinking about the new car thing more and more. It wasn't just our e-mails, Matt, I've been thinking about it for a while. I can fathom 1,000 here, and 500 here, but it adds up FAST! For example, the shortblock is "ONLY" 2,700 or so, but I need to bolt that to $1000 in heads with headwork, and bolt all of that to a $6000 transmission, $1200 in DSS driveshaft and axles, Probably need around $1200 in clutch to handle the power. $1300 + tuning for the ECU. $1000 for the 18G. $500 for the IC.

I mean, that's barely everything just to SUPPORT the power of it, and it comes to around $14,000. Now you need to add tuning in, and suspension.

I mean, go-fast alone is pushing 16,000. Then you need body and such, and it makes a new car seem pretty good.

So I dunno, I'm gonna have to do some thinking for sure.
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Post by azn2nr »

1000 for an 18g?? which one are you getting. for that price you could go garrett. plus if you want to go 18 just comvert your 16. im not sure if heads would cost that much depending on which ones you want. the tranny is where it hurts though. no matter what car you get, if its a subaru and it has some power trannys are gonna go bye bye sooner than later. on the issue of the body staying old school will be hard. the easiest way out is to find an L that a grandma has been driving around that has no rust and swap everything over. if you want to upgrade the body than you could do the same thing, just swap everything over. that way you avoid the big bucks for a new paint job and rust repair. unless of course you want to keep the color then you will have to paint the new car anyway.

i thought you already had coilovers or was that just a dream? that and if the tunable chip being discussed in teh engine board goes thorugh you might not need to spend that much on ecu+tunning. though not as cool or maybe as effective as a standalone im pretty sure it will be able to do the job.
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Post by evolutionmovement »

Jason has some good points, but I think Phil's just kind of getting the itch to do something else now that the car's in a good state. I know there's a bunch of cars I want to do (with tons of other non-car stuff), but I barely have money for one of them. I need to stop writing and try to get some of this crap published, but then I keep thinking of new crap and of the five novels I need to write and ... Sometimes I wish I never started writing at all. Sorry about the trailing rant.

Steve
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Post by azn2nr »

i understand the urge to do something new. i for one have so many ideas about what to do with any car that i see for sale. i have pics of rex's and gc's on my wall that are out of this world amazing and they make me think of "what else" every day. the only thing is when i stop and think a little more all i can think of is can anything else i do be as satisfying for the same cost basis as what im doing now?? perosnaly i dont think so. the unique ness of this car is unparaelled. just look at our little corner of the internet. theres no other place that has spawned so many orignal ideas out of nothing in the name of increaced performance. every other car that has a little performance has huge folowings. for the legacy the folowing is so small that we can go by unnoticed until we call attention to ourselves wich imo is the one thing that sets us apart form any other car ever made
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Post by 206er »

azn2nr wrote: the unique ness of this car is unparaelled. just look at our little corner of the internet. theres no other place that has spawned so many orignal ideas out of nothing in the name of increaced performance. every other car that has a little performance has huge folowings. for the legacy the folowing is so small that we can go by unnoticed until we call attention to ourselves wich imo is the one thing that sets us apart form any other car ever made
Im gonna have to disagree with that. modified legacies ARE unique, but by no means the most unique. there are plenty of unique cars with tons of potential that have small followings. old volvos or turbo dodges for instance.
"theres no other place that has spawned so many orignal ideas out of nothing in the name of increaced performance" ummm no.
so back on topic, screw an STi. $13000 would build a nice GC8 with a swap. that could kill an STi. Lets say you started with a 93 L coupe. a non runner is like $1000 or less, front clips are $2000-$6000, coilovers 1000-2000, brakes 1000, etc. There is a lot to be said for a 2400lb AWD car with a ton of power. I suppose buying someone else's swapped car would save a lot of money, but building your own would be more fun.
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Post by scottzg »

What route will bring you the most happiness? Do you love the process or the outcome? How long before an STi is just another car? Could all that money provide more happiness if placed somewhere else? How much do you spend before it becomes less rewarding?

Thats what i'd be thinking about first.
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Post by Yukonart »

I see two really good routes you could go, Phil:

Route one:
1. Buy used WRX wagon, perhaps with blown drivetrain
2. Pick up STi drivetrain components from wrecks, they happen.
3. Swap into wagon . . creating monster sleeper with mod potential

Route two:
1. Buy 5th gen Legacy GT wagon
2. Enjoy the 250hp stock and newness
3. Profit. ;)

Seriously. . . have you driven the new LGTs, yet? They're awesome! The options for modding are growing faster and faster, now. They're beautiful, reliable, have stronger drivetrains than the WRXs, and they're still Legacies.

Hell. . . I was VERY close last fall to trading-in the STi to buy one. :oops:
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Post by BAC5.2 »

azn2nr wrote:1000 for an 18g?? which one are you getting. for that price you could go garrett. plus if you want to go 18 just comvert your 16. im not sure if heads would cost that much depending on which ones you want. the tranny is where it hurts though. no matter what car you get, if its a subaru and it has some power trannys are gonna go bye bye sooner than later. on the issue of the body staying old school will be hard. the easiest way out is to find an L that a grandma has been driving around that has no rust and swap everything over. if you want to upgrade the body than you could do the same thing, just swap everything over. that way you avoid the big bucks for a new paint job and rust repair. unless of course you want to keep the color then you will have to paint the new car anyway.

i thought you already had coilovers or was that just a dream? that and if the tunable chip being discussed in teh engine board goes thorugh you might not need to spend that much on ecu+tunning. though not as cool or maybe as effective as a standalone im pretty sure it will be able to do the job.
Turbo: http://www.boostplanet.com/product6.htm

Converting the 16, would cost around $800 to do everything, so might as well just go new, and sell my turbo.

Heads are relatively cheap. Head work is expensive. Espically since places I would trust are no where NEAR local. So I gotta ship them three times, and pay for head work.

I want to keep my color, that's the big thing for me. I don't want to buy another Legacy just to swap everything and go from there. I'd have to swap EVERYTHING, down to the carpets. That's a lotta downtime for the car. Plus a paint job, it just wouldn't be any less expensive. Rust free Legacy's don't exist down here I think.

If it's a non 6-speed Subaru, the tranny is gonna be hurtin. The 6-speeds do pretty well. That's the number one reason I want to get the STi over the WRX, is that I can't finance $6k for a transmission with the purchase of the car.

As far as the coilovers goes, I had a set. DMS 40mm's. But there was some significant miscommunication going on, and the final rebuild price was more than double the original estimate, so needless to say, I'm not going to be getting those coilovers. I am out the money I paid though.

I can make the car run with just fuel control. I can't make it run as well as I would like without timing control. Full standalone would produce a more reliable setup, IMO.

It's not that I'm getting the itch for something else. It's that I'm getting kinda bored of being worried about the car all the time. In light of my lean dyno runs, Matt's blown motor, and all of the "blue smoke, white smoke" posts, I have reason to be concerned that my motor is on it's last legs. Matt's car ran great, then one day BAM. Same with yours Steve. Just, POP, and your stuck with a thumb up the pooper. I don't feel like the Legacy is perfectly reliable. I always get the sinking feeling that I'll go on boost, and blow her up. When I get to the upper revs, I start to grimmace and half expect a POP and then have to call the tow.

I want a car that is acceptable, in terms of performance, but is stock. The STi fits that need, and it will prevent me from modding it and I can still mod the Legacy when I get bitten by the bug, AND I won't have to rely on it to get me to school and work.

$13,000 would never build a GC8 to kill an STi. It would put the power out to kill an STi, but it would fall short in so many categories. I can spend $13,000 and make more power at the wheels than modded STi's make at the crank, but the STi has MUCH more potential, and the GD chassis is SO much stiffer than the BC/GC. Stiff coilovers are just going to exploit chassis flex, which is something that's not easily curable. I'm not going to buy an STi so I can be the fastest thing on the street. I'm not buying it to be a race car.

A swapped car, done right, would cost more than $13,000. Plus, you can't finance a build.

Scott - I love the process. I'm not buying the STi as a project. I'm buying it to maintain a level of performance that I have grown very accustomed to, as well as some other things that I think about. I think a new car would be good for me, emotionally. I get depressed when I think about the amount of money it would take to get Lauren up to my spec. When I think about how fragile she is, and how she drives differently every day. How there are random little problems that scare the shit out of me. She is just showing her 110,000 mile age.

Art - My friend Ron has an 05GT Wagon, and my friend Keefe has an 05GT Sedan (with Zeal V6 Coilovers, Cusco swaybars and endlinks, factory SS, custom one-off fiberglass grill, 6 sets of wheels and tires (2 of which are R-Compound), a UTEC going in soon, and a few other goodies). I got to drive Ron's wagon for a day, and really liked it!

I really like the LGT, but I don't know about the cost. The ones I was looking at are more than STi's. I can't decide between the two. The LGT is going to be MUCH more expensive to mod, suspension wise. Keefe spent something like $2600 on those coilovers. But the LGT has that aire of professionalism, not often associated with the STi.

I really don't want to swap anything, to tell the truth. That's another liability that, while it would be fun, I only need one project. The Legacy isn't going anywhere. I just want a fun daily driver, that will meet my performance expectations and make me happy enough stock, to keep my wallet out of trouble in modding it.
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Post by azn2nr »

wow, only 110k miles on her? ive got 160k on mine but since i personaly have done all the work on the easily broken parts im not to woried about stuff breaking.

its really understandable that you want a good daily driver with performace in it. i have often thought about a daily but never expected it to have a performance aspect.

if you'd be willing to go outside subaru for a daily thats fun as hell and could possibly fit into your 13k price range to avoid financing but may have trouble in the east coast winters you could look a miata or other low cost reliable ride therefore leaving change in the bank for bug bites
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