Air to water Question

-K- · Post by **-K-** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:27 am

I am installing a AWIC and have a question. Should I make a tank to increase the water capacity? My brother thinks so and I have heard of it but I thought it was to make up for not haveing a big enough radiator. I am getting a VW Rabbit radiator, so I think it will be fine. Any thoughts? I do need to make a tank for my pump because I got a bilge pump. But if I make a small tank I can fit it in front of the battery, just move the horn, not relocate the battery to the trunk. The bilge pump is $10 at the Wal-Mart, 500gph and it won't make a lot of noise inside a tank filled with water.

zak · Post by **zak** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 6:45 am

Well, I don't know whether it matters or not, but I do not have a seperate water resevoir. THe time and effort don't seem to make it worthwhile. The big thing for me was, if I was going to do it, where to mount it? In my opinion, there is not that much space infront of the battery. The complications of such a small sized tank would not outway the little bit of extra water in the system. If you can get a big tank and mount it somewhere, I might say go for it. Ah, I just read you have a bilge pump..... well, that kind of changes things. Hmmm.

have you seen this site before? Quite interesting and helpful for me....

http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gavinp/airwater.htm

Either way, good luck!

IggDawg · Post by **IggDawg** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:18 pm

Confuscius say: "A bigger radiator will hold more water in the first place"

Confuscius say: "Also, my son, keep in mind that water weighs 8 pounds per gallon. Fo Shizzle."

morgie · Post by **morgie** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 6:15 pm

Dumb ass question : What do you put in your Air-Water IC in the winter ?

antifreeze/windshield washer ?

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:32 pm

You have tons of space available in spot made for the air compressor....

I think adding an extra tank gives you buffer time, running higher boost for a short time since the water will take a while to heat.

boostjunkie · Post by **boostjunkie** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:16 pm

I don't remember the chemical properties of water, however, as an increased volume of water will give you more "buffer" time, will it also take longer to cool when using the same size radiator?

Some air-air vs. air-water info:
http://www.panhandleperformance.com/int ... oler4.html

Tell me what you think. I'm unbiased either way . . .

IggDawg · Post by **IggDawg** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:14 pm

boost - yup. it'll take longer to cool. heat in, heat out.

morgie - yup. use antifreeze. I'd use it anyways. I think it has better heat transfer properties than water.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:35 pm

I'm not sure about it being better at transferring heat, but there is one nice thing about antifreeze -- it's also antiboil. A mixture of water and ethelyne glycol vaporizes at a higher temperature than water, and I'd hate to be running boiling water and steam through an intercooler setup.

Are you guys setting up some kind of emergency pop-off valve (like a radiator cap or something) to handle this situation? Or is this kind of heat soak just not gonna happen?

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 1:00 am

Dont forget anti rust, HEY PUT SOME REDLINE WATER WETTER IN IT TOO!

-K- · Post by **-K-** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:45 am

Anti-freeze doesn't transfer heat better. So I am going to use some water wetter. The stock Liberty AWIC uses a radiator cap that would release excess pressure into an overflow tank. As far as the air-air vs. air-water site, rember they are selling stuff. To V8 guys. 1/4 mile only people. They also said there would be more pressure drop in a bigger IC and that is crap. The pressure drop is from the restricton. I would have liked to make a front mount air-air but didn't want to cut the lower bumper out. What made me decide on air-water was something a guy my brother knows said. "You know when fall comes, those hot days and cold nights. You can tell how much harder your car pulls in the cold. Mine feels like that all the time." He was talking about a air-water IC.

mile hi · Post by **mile hi** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:30 am

What I run in the air to water setup I have is a item that I picked up at a semi truck service place in this case Freight liner. It is made by Caterpiller and is water, antifreeze, water wetter, and some protective additives for the system all in one package and premixed. One nice thing about these places besides stocking premium oils, parts, and cutting silicone hose to length is that they are open 24-7. We have two here Freight Liner and Mack.
AL(CO)
al@iwtu.net

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 2:48 pm

I'm confused......

I was under the impression that the air/water ic setup was basically a couple of water jets above the ic on the outside of it. When you spray the water or whatever on there the cool mist soaks the ic radiator-like fins and then avaporates off most of the heat. Now assuming this is how it works, and assuming that whatever does not evaporate will just compile under the ic (ie. the motor tranny etc), why would you use something like antifreeze which stinks and would make a huge mess in the engine compartment? I also read somewhere about using alcohol. That seems like a much better alternative. but hey, I dont know.

Mike

mile hi · Post by **mile hi** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:22 pm

No the air to water intercooler systems use a heat exchanger somewhat like a radiator to pick up the heat of the intake charge and a pump to circulate the then heated water to another heat exchanger usually mounted in front of the stock engine coolant radiator. Some of these systems can be very efficient. We have an Laminova intercooler about the size of a Liberty unit that will support 550hp. There are also systems that are designed to pack ice into containers in the lines and get the intake charge below ambient temperatures. This is all done to force a very dense cool charge into the engine. More air+more fuel= More Power
AL(CO)
al@iwtu.net

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 8:07 pm

magicmike: The best part about an air to water system is that the water can absorb ALOT of energy. As mile hi said, the stock air to water intercooler on the legacy could be used on a HUGE horsepower vehicle, as long as the buffer was large enough.

Usually you are under heavy boost for a short amount of time, as long as the water doesnt reach too high a temp during that time your ok. The water can then cool off while you drive at cruising speeds and be ready for the next boost.

edit: Simply the system has:
A radiator that is sealed so the intake air from the turbo passes through.
Hoses running from that radiator to a pump
A small "transmission" cooler radiator on the front of the vehicle to remove heat.

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 8:33 pm

ohhhh, ok I can visualize that. I was getting confused. Thanks for the clarification.

Mike

teaguespeed · Post by **teaguespeed** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:02 pm

so how much power can the liberty awic flow?
thanks, Teague

-K- · Post by **-K-** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:49 pm

That might be answered best by someone on the Liberty board. To me it looks like a good enough setup for the 250hp (sometime in the future) I would like to get.

-K- · Post by **-K-** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:02 am

Oh, and on the air-air sprayer, I think an atomized mist that would cool the air going over the IC would be much better than just wetting the outside. The alcohol would be used in Water Injection system. That goes right into the intake air to cool it, and gets burned in the engine.

SubbyRS · Post by **SubbyRS** » Thu May 22, 2003 1:57 am

so how much power can the liberty awic flow?
thanks, Teague

They're reportedly good for up to 215KW (say 290HP) at the fly....

SubbyRS · Post by **SubbyRS** » Thu May 22, 2003 2:03 am

If anyone's interested, I've got the FSM intercooler pages scanned & available for viewing.....they're 1.5MB bmp's at present so I'll convert them if anyone wants me to post.......it'll show you EVERYTHING you need to know about the Legacy/Liberty factory AWIC.....

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu May 22, 2003 3:48 am

I think many of us would like to see them. Please do post! :)

SubbyRS · Post by **SubbyRS** » Sat May 24, 2003 11:07 pm

still doing images...

SubbyRS · Post by **SubbyRS** » Sat May 24, 2003 11:17 pm

OK, how do I post images directly from my hard drive??

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun May 25, 2003 9:22 pm

viewtopic.php?t=1196

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:05 pm

Liberty air/water coolers are good for 300hp. Distilled water disperses heat far better than glycol or antifreeze, however in your climate i would suggest the antifreeze. that 300hp is based on a standard setup, with a bigger front radiator it will be more efficient again and with a bigger water pump it will also be better. our Liberty's have a 3/4 sized(compared to the radiator) heat exchanger for our water/air setup.

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Air to water Question

Air to water Question