My turbo died tonight

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:29 pm

Yeah, but then the turbine wouldn't spool so much, so I don't know if you'd get it that red.

I can understand you feeling guilty about that girl, but at least it wasn't your car that caused the fire. Maybe you could go to the wake or something.

Steve

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:17 am

legacy92ej22t wrote:Ya, remember I told you that the other night on the phone when we were talking too?

Yeah I remember but throughout the conversation we got our wires crossed like sometimes happens and I thought you said that I would get stock boost not no boost, sorry.

Matt - The mechanic (Rod Strothers) said that the turbo would smoke if the oil lines on it were clogged. I told him that your turbo was in fine working order. I didn't know what he meant.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:20 am

YA, but maybe it could have been stuck closed and then finally after the turbo got super heated it opened and then got stuck or something. I don't know.

When we were talking on the phone we were (Scott and I) mainly just talking about the conditions that could cause over boost and low or no boost.

During the conversation Scott said that it was glowing slightly, not like super heated magma, red hot crazy style. The turbo seemed to be "acting up" for a while too. He heard a soft metallic tink sound and then the car seemed to not boost anymore. So maybe the wastgate had been sticking or something and finally either broke or got stuck open. I'm not sure.

Scott isn't running a boost gauge and was using the scan tool to monitor boost but about the same time this all happened his lap top decided it didn't want to play nice with the scan tool or something so as far as I know he doesn't have any solid boost numbers but the car definitely feels slow and he can't hear the turbo spooling anymore.

Holy shit, I just remembered that I have that OBX boost gauge! I should let him use that. My god, I totally forgot until just now that I have that.

HAhaha.

Scott- Either way you should run the line for a boost gauge and I'll let you run my OBX one until you can get a good one of your own!

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:22 am

My last post was in response to Steve, you posted Scott while I was typing.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:49 pm

If I bought up an down pipes would that make installation and removal easier? I've been thinking about it anyway. My stock pipes do need replaced.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:11 pm

The more boost there is, the harder the wastegate actuator is pushing on the wastegate flapper rod. So it's conceivable that the wastegate could be stuck, causing the turbo to overboost, and eventually forcing the wastegate to open, maybe damaging it and causing it to stay open. But that all seems kind of far-fetched to me.

You can try to check the wastegate yourself. Pull that chimney off (you'll have to do that eventually anyway) and try moving the wastegate actuator rod by hand. It should take some several pounds of force to push it towards the back of the car. Be sure the engine hasn't been run for a while before you do this -- exhaust burns are no fun!

Buying and uppipe and downpipe won't really make the job much easier as far as I can see... You definitely do want to buy new hardware (nuts, bolts, springs) for the downpipe-to-midpipe joint and invest in a lot of PB Blaster though, as well as a few spare studs and nuts and whatnot.

Our stock uppipe is pretty good anyway, right?

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:34 pm

Ya, I know it was really far fetched in terms of the wastegate being stuck closed and then being stuck open, I was just throwing it out.

Like Vikash said, I wouldn't worry about the up-pipe at all. It's already catless and flows well. I'd only do it if the OEM up-pipe is damaged or something.

A new DP isn't that bad of an idea though. I'm sure that the cat in the OEM DP is probably not very free flowing with all the miles on it. It will add a bit more work to fab an aftermarket DP into the stock cat back though. If you had the DP and then had the turbo put in, with the new DP and had a mild steel 2.5 cat back fabbed up at the same time, that'd be pretty cool.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:06 am

This is retarded....

I set up an appt. to have the turbo replaced at a local suby dealersip (kinley's subaru) and the service dept gave me a hard time about doing the work. The guy said it might take two days to get the job done. Well, I can't do that since I work and have to drive 30 miles to work the next day. I asked them why in the world it would take that long for a mechanic with 23 years of experience to replace a turbo and he said that if a loyal customer came in he would have to put my car on hold until that customer's issue was addressed. I can understand being loyal to your base but once a car's in the shop I think it's shitty to drop what you're doing on it in favor of some other car when the other person has no other recourse. I won't rent a car when I know it doesn't take that long to do this in a well equiped garage. The cherry on top is that the guy has to be an arrogant fuck about it instead of at least pretending to give a crap. I wasn't rude but I did have to at least say "This is unbelieveable".

That's not even the funniest part. The other subaru dealers in town won't even touch this issue. One, because I didn't get the part from them (like I can afford to put a new turbo in my car). The other just won't touch it because they're afraid I guess. What is wrong with these people. Anyway, I got a friend of mine to agree to help and it goes in Friday. This guy isn't even suby mechanic but he was willing to throw in and help out in the spirit of brotherhood and to learn something. I'm anxious to get to work on it. I wanted to do it myself but I don't think that I'm really prepared for what could happen.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:13 am

I recommend an impact wrench and torch. I'd also drop the whole front exhaust at the heads (if feasible) to make it easy to get at the bolts for the turbo. I had a hell of a time removing mine on the engine stand. I'd also swap the hardware with stainless wherever possible.

Steve

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:11 am

That sucks about Kinley's attitude... I guess they feel that they don't need any more loyal customers in the future.

Good luck doing it yourself. I'd start spraying the bolts with PB Blaster nightly... the fumes as you drive the car will suck, but it could help the turbo come out more easily.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:20 pm

evolutionmovement wrote:I recommend an impact wrench and torch. I'd also drop the whole front exhaust at the heads (if feasible) to make it easy to get at the bolts for the turbo. I had a hell of a time removing mine on the engine stand. I'd also swap the hardware with stainless wherever possible.

Steve

Really Steve? You had a hard time getting it off even on an engine stand where you have full access to the engine? Sheesh, maybe I should just say screw it and not bother. I don't want to get into it and discover the damn thing won't come off. I don't have access to an impact wrench but I can do the torch. This car is turning into a real nightmare.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:23 pm

Just start PBing the hell out of it. Get the chimney off asap so you can soak that bitch good. Make sure you spray the up-pipe bolts too, not just the DP bolts. Use the breaker bar and you should be ok.

That or have the shop do it and swallow their bullshit. I mean chances are that they will get it done in the one day, they're just probably trying to give themselves some breathing room. I would just try to do it yourself though. It will be a good experience even if it doesn't go totally smooth.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:39 pm

Thanks for the inspiration, Matt. I'd like to remove the chimney and start pbing it but when I get home it's dark and I have like 2 hours to work with before I have to crash and I'm usually pretty bushed. I haven't done it these last two days because I've had to do other "offical" stuff, if ya know what I mean (CRN). I'm supposed to do it Friday. Hopefully, getting up super early and pbing it will help. I just have a gut feeling that it'll be the worst possible scenario when it comes to removing this bitch. So far, my gut feelings always prove to be correct. I don't mind some struggle but I'm not looking forward to an every-step-of-the-way ordeal. I actually started removing the chimney the other day but when I got in there and started pulling hoses they were breaking as I pulled them off. I stopped because I didn't want to go on an all day oddysey of replacing hoses. They all need replaced, that much I know I just don't want to get into that right now.

As far as dealing with Kinley's, I'm pretty much done. It's not so much what they're saying as it is the way they talk down to you. He's not even willing to chat about it first. I told I've heard this and I've heard that just to talk and he just said "don't listen to anyone else, they don't know what they're talking about" and "why don't you have them replace it then". The guy's an asshat, plain and simple.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:45 pm

Matt told me

last night that he recalled a converstaion between me and the guy who sold me my car that they had put a wrx up pipe in my car. He's correct and now I'm stoked to swap the turbo in because now I know the bolts have been moved in less than 14 years. I guess should practice zen and be more patient.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:58 pm

That's why they call me the Elephant! Or is that because of my enormous trunk? Hmm.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:21 pm

You do have a good memory, man. Except when it comes to you being wrong but I'm guessing that doesn't happen too often.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:59 am

I replaced the turbo today. We started at noon and got done around 8:30 pm. It was a supreme bitch. I broke an up pipe all threader and stripped a nut on one too. We made a trip to Sears and got a bot remover set and that worked on the flange nut but not on the all thread bolt, that still sits on the up pipe...without a nut. I also broke a couple of the specially shaped vaccum hoses (recirc). Bah, I just taped them unitl I can get new ones or find something that will work. We tried torching the damn bolt to cherry red but it wouldn't come off and the bolt remover wasn't deep enough to grab the meat that was left on it after a couple tries.

The car runs real strong now though

, a lot stronger than before which tells me that maybe the old turbo was on it's way out for a little while before it actually died. The turbo was definetely hosed. The fan is hard to turn and when you get it to move it scrapes the housing.

I also discovered that the AC had some charge left in it when I tried to disconnect a hose. It leaked out and when I tried to retighten it it just kept leaking out, that stuff stinks *cough*. I'm a little concerned about the oil hose that connects to the bottom. That sucker wasn't east to get on and when did manage to get it on it didn't slide over the second lip but I haven't seen any leaks yet. That's pretty much it, thanks for any tips that were given.

Oh, those alligator sockets that have the pins in them that are supposed to grip any shape....hahahaha, what a joke.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:11 am

Cool, nice job working around the difficulties.

If it was scraping the housing, that'd definitely explain the glowing-hot turbo... The amount of work done by the friction of a compressor or turbine wheel that's making contact with its housing is huge.

I don't think the oil return hose is meant to go over both beads... The lower bead is there for the clamp to hold against and the upper bead is just to locate the hose. In any case, it's the only low-pressure oil line on your motor so it's probably gonna do fine.

If it's possible to get two nuts on the undamaged portion of the damaged uppipe stud, you could tighten the nuts against each other and then try to back them out of the uppipe with an impact wrench. If that isn't possible you may have to either break the stud and then use a bolt extractor, or weld a handle onto the stud that you can apply some torque to. Either way, it'll require removing the turbo again.

But with all this experience, that'll be easy the second time around!

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:24 am

Scott, may I bring some things to your attention? I hope you don't mind...

1) Everyone breaks a bolt on the turbo. I bought an IRWIN bolt extractor kit to handle this. That thing is worth it's weight in gold. I suggest this over any "alligator" peices of shit. Vikash got a set too when we pulled the BJ motor. Shockingly amazing peices of machinery.

2) I just sat the turbo on the uppipe like that when we broke a stud on the first of many 16g installs. I had an exhaust leak like you wouldn't believe.

3) The WRX uppipe has a cat in it. Did yours? If so, you might want to gut it when you pull the turbo again to fix the stud that was stripped. The pre-cat doesn't do much for emissions (other than start-up emissions).

4) The lower oil line is a cunt. I split mine and threw up all the oil in my car more than once. If that line get's pinched, I dread the thought. I replaced mine with a AN12 (I think? Vikash? Like 3/4" or something) Stainless Steel braided oil line. I got it from Maryland Performance, but you could get it from any speed shop I would think (MD Performance is a big domestic shop). It was a bastard to get on (since it does NOT stretch) but it was OK. I didn't use any hose clamps and haven't leaked yet.

5) Glad you did it yourself! It's not as scary as you think. It takes MUCH less time the more you do it. I've pulled my turbo so many times, I have it down to about 25 minutes or so from on to off, and another 15 minutes to put it back on.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:28 am

OH OH OH, I was doing what Vikash said, and popped the hood after a hard run.

He was right! Turbo glowing a dim orange.

Taken with my cellphone.....

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:36 am

The oil drain line is 15mm ID, which is close to 5/8". I used a short piece of 5/8" power steering hose.

-12 AN is supposed to be 3/4", or about 19mm, so I don't know how you made that fit, Phil, unless the particular line you got had a smaller inner diameter. Sure it wasn't -10?

My new hose's outer diameter is larger than the stock one's, but I used the same clamp, so the clamp is pretty much doing nothing. No detectable leaks yet.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:07 am

It must have been -10 then.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:34 pm

double post...

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:40 pm

I also have the Craftsman ones... The ones from Advance are much more effective.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:44 pm

I don't mind input at all, that's why I'm here so feel free to say whatever except "Hey Scott, you fu*&ing moron, why didn't you do this sooner!" You could say that but I wouldn't expect a reply, at least not a warm one

.

It was kind of a nightmare but not the worst I've had and I can definitely see that it will be easier now that the hardware has been broken free. So far, I haven't seen any oil leaks and there's no detectable exhaust leaks. Maybe the lack of a leak is partly due to the fact I'm not running as much boost?? I do need to address that oil line at some point. For now I'll just have to check it periocially to make sure it's not walking off. I did buy a craftsman bolt extractor kit yesterday and it didn't work. I'll check out the IRWIN sometime today or tomorrow.

BAC5.2 wrote:3) The WRX uppipe has a cat in it. Did yours? If so, you might want to gut it when you pull the turbo again to fix the stud that was stripped. The pre-cat doesn't do much for emissions (other than start-up emissions).

I actually have a WRX uppipe installed and, yes, the cat was gutted (funny...cat was gutted... nevermind)

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My turbo died tonight