Headlight beam patterns

[jnorion]

I have a 91 with the crappy headlights, and I would like to upgrade them. I have been reading lots of back posts about this, and I have come up with one question that I haven't found the answer for yet.

How does the beam pattern of the 92-94 USDM headlight compare to the ECE beam pattern? I know what the ECE pattern looks like, but I haven't found any pictures from the US lights. I know the US version is compatible but I'm very picky and it would have to be really good for me to choose it over the European version... but I like the idea of being able to get a set from the local junkyard instead of having to hunt one down halfway across the world. Anyone have pictures to compare?

And yes, I am aware that I would have to change more than just the lights to upgrade to the newer style... I like the way they look better anyway so I am considering that no matter which lights I choose.

[vrg3]

92-94 North American Legacy headlights have a beam pattern that is similar to, but not quite the same as, the ECE pattern. The low beam throws a little more glare above the horizontal cutoff, and the high beams are just generally a little less useful.

Pictures can't really tell you the difference.

For better performance, the ECE lights get the nod, not only for the better beam pattern but also for the glass lenses and the potential for motorized height adjustment. But the American lights are a lot easier and cheaper to find, and also more resistant to damage.

[jnorion]

If it's really close enough that you couldn't tell the difference with a picture than that's probably good enough for me. I don't really care about the motorized height adjustment and as long as I can clean up the plastic lenses they're okay too.

Mainly I was just hoping to see for myself what they look like. Ah well, I'll probably just hit up the junkyard and test them anyway.

Thanks.

[Splinter]

Have you considered supplementing them instead of replacing them?

Replacing them is a LOT of work, and while the 92's are better, they're not THAT much better. Also you lose the more aggressive look of the 91s

Ive ordered a set of Hella 550 high-beams that I'm mounting behind the grill, so I keep the stock look, and Im going to add some fog or low-beams in the bumper in the future. It'd probably be cheaper, and brighter.

[jnorion]

I actually don't like the look of the earlier style as much, strange as it may seem. And I do plan on supplementing them at some point too, but I would like to do everything right on this car. So I want the headlights set up the way they should have been... wide beam pattern with distinct cutoff, and bright. Then I'll deal with the driving lights or fog lights or whatever I decide I need at that point.

As far as it being a lot of work to replace, I understand that to some extent, I haven't found a complete list of what needs to be done yet... but my impression is that the lights, the grille, and the hood would need to be changed. I'm still seriously considering the EDM 91 lights, depending on how much they would cost to get.

[Splinter]

IIRC, the whole front end needs to be replaced, basically

Bumper, bumper mounts, I dont think the fenders do tho.

[evolutionmovement]

Fenders, hood, parking light, grille, bumper.

[jnorion]

Hmm, I didn't realize the bumper and fenders were different. I mean, I knew the bumper was different, but I didn't know it was incompatible.

[jnorion]

OK, so I've been staring at pictures of the two styles, here's my understanding of it:

Hood and grille need to be changed to accomodate the new headlights.

Fenders need to be changed to accomodate the new side marker lights.

The bumper is confusing me... from the pictures I can't see a difference in the overall shape between the two styles... both appear flat on top, both cut off at basically the same spot below the side marker lights, and both extend back to create the front of the wheel well.

From what I see (granted these are not high quality pictures, hence my questions) it seems like I SHOULD be able to change everything but the bumper and still make it work... or even make the new headlights fit next to the old side markers.

I need to look at more old threads. I have a feeling this is already laid out somewhere.

[vrg3]

Are you on crack, Splinter?! The 92 headlights are 1032948203948029384 times better than the 91 headlights. And driving lights aren't going to help you one iota in all the driving situations that call for low beams. Fog lights will actually hurt seeing in most situations too. And you can't mount low beams in the bumper, either; it's too low.

[evolutionmovement]

Even easier is the Hella 90mm conversion I did, but instead of all the stupid work, you could just remove the lenses, mount a plate inside the unmodified housing for the new lamps, and cut holes in the original lenses to clear the new lamps before reinstalling them. They'd stick out a little further than mine, but you could aim the lights prior to cutting the holes, allowing smaller holes and then you could paint the lenses as desired. I'm thinking of going there myself.

You should be able to find the thread on it if you're interested. The lamps are as good as my Mazda 3s (which are really damn good).

Steve

[jnorion]

OK, so let me get this straight: you're saying do the same setup you did (I read the thread on that already) but to just cut out the plastic lens and mount them through it instead of messing around with the back of the assembly?

I'm not sure what to think of that... honestly I don't really like the dual round lights with the rest of the styling on this car. The project looks cool but it just doesn't fit with my ideas for it. But I'll have to look at it some more. It seems like you might even be able to get some E36 BMW lights and fit them in... that would be even easier for the same outcome.

[Splinter]

Are you on crack, Splinter?! The 92 headlights are 1032948203948029384 times better than the 91 headlights.

I drove my dad's 91 last summer, and Ive got a 92 now

I live a long way down a dark winding coastal road. Neither one is sufficient. I honestly dont find these ones that much better.

[vrg3]

If you set them up right (good bulbs, good wiring, clean lenses), you'll see the difference. It's a huge difference. Huge.

[LaureltheQueen]

it's a HUGE difference between the 91 and 92 front ends. You also had about 9 months go by before getting a 92, I hopped directly from a 91 to a 92. I still loathe what the corner lights on the 92 look like, but there's no way I'd be willing to give up my headlight optics.

[jnorion]

OK, so I've been staring at pictures of the two styles, here's my understanding of it:

Hood and grille need to be changed to accomodate the new headlights.

Fenders need to be changed to accomodate the new side marker lights.

The bumper is confusing me... from the pictures I can't see a difference in the overall shape between the two styles... both appear flat on top, both cut off at basically the same spot below the side marker lights, and both extend back to create the front of the wheel well.

From what I see (granted these are not high quality pictures, hence my questions) it seems like I SHOULD be able to change everything but the bumper and still make it work... or even make the new headlights fit next to the old side markers.

I need to look at more old threads. I have a feeling this is already laid out somewhere.

I still haven't found a clear answer to this... anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[All_talk]

FWIW, here is a thread with pics of the preface pattern and some thoughts.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... tern+clear

When clearing the yellow I think the wet sand and polish method (no clear coat) is the best for light transmittance.

I think the pattern complants are a little nit picky, I've had both pre and post face cars and used the wet sand method to clear both, the post pattern is some better but not by a huge margin. True neather is great but I'm guessing most of you haven't spent a lot of time driving an old car with (non halogen) seal beams.

Gary

[evolutionmovement]

The Hella 90mms are probably better than the BMW units and they're made for this type of application. But, yeah, I'm saying just remove the lenses (with a heat gun to soften the glue), mount a plate with the appropriate holes in it ... Shit. Never mind, I just remembered how deep these things are, so you'd still have to get clearance out the back of the housing. Doing this in a post-facelift would be damn easy. BMW units are probably much shallower, so that would be an easy option.

I have to say, I'm not all that happy with how mine look either.

Steve

[jnorion]

I used to have a '90 Mazda Protege and you can fit the BMW lights in there without much trouble. They don't look bad, but again they look a little out of place with the body style. I would think they'd be similar on the Subaru.



It takes a little cutting of the frame behind the lights, but I guess yours did too.

[evolutionmovement]

How'd you clear the lenses!?

All Talk - Yeah, I thought this car's lighting was pretty good as it was marginally better than my old GLs and way beyond the candles my Zs and the old muscle cars I was used to had. Now I realize how bad they are.

Steve

[jnorion]

Oh, sorry, that's not my car, I didn't have the BMW lights, I was just showing an example. But those are from Germany... glass lenses.