still not running.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:38 pm

ok. pulled down the relay with the green connector. Pulled the relay off. jumped the black/red wire with the yellow. hit the key and the car started like id parked it yesterday.

however the relay bears the number

856700-5260 and 11j14

someone put the wrong relay in?

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:53 pm

Ran the same test on my long disfuctional Heater blowers relay and the blower came on for the first time since ive owned the car....

thinking it may be a switching problem, not the relays...

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:17 pm

That's the correct relay. The FHI part number is 82501GA240 but the manufacturer's part number is 856700-5260.

I can't see how this would be a "switching problem" really... Unless you have a gigantic magnet under the dash preventing the relay's coils from having an effect or something.

Maybe at some point the whole area was exposed to a lot of humidity or something?

If you apply 12 volts to the relay's coil (with it disconnected from the car) does the relay click?

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:23 pm

By switching Problem I mean The Switch that applys power to the Coil that trips the relay (ignition switch) may not be supplying power, thus the relay isnt kicking on and providing power to the fuel pump, blower, etc...

Ill go "field test" the relay now and get back to you.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:33 pm

The fuel pump relay's coil is powered by the ignition switch through the EGI fuse and is grounded by the ECU when the ECU wants the pump on.

The blower relay's coil is powered by the ignition switch through the instruments fuse and is grounded through the blower speed control switch.

It doesn't really seem likely that one problem could affect both of those but still allow the car to run.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:49 pm

ok, after Messing with the relay for several minutes and getting nothing (no clicky) I went to the connector and tested the coil wires for 12v

ignition on. 0.16v

ignition off 12.4v

Same on both blower and Fuel relay connectors.

Assuming the ignition in the off position applys 12v and breaks the connection I think the relays are shot.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:51 pm

While im milking you for informaion do you happen to have the FHI part number for the Blower relay?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:07 pm

Wait, that's not right... You measured 12 volts at the coil wires when the ignition was off? You're sure you were measuring across the right wires?

I think that the fuel pump relay and blower relay are the same part.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:38 pm

Aye. I got 12 volts when the ignition was turned OFF. measured across the two wires at the end of the connector with the saftey lock (labled on the relay Diagram as 3 & 4). Thought it was odd myself.

After 20 minutes on the phone and 45 minutes at the stealership. we came to the same Conclusion, the two parts are identical.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:40 pm

I don't know the shape of the relay. Do you remember which wire colors you were measuring across?

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:46 pm

Dont remember the color of the wires off the top of my head. should start getting light in next 20 minutes or so. I can go look then.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:47 pm

Bleh, looking a second time i had the connector turned the wrong way. the diagram on the side of it is kinda confusing. ok. so

off .1 v

On 12.4 for a moment then drops off to .1

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:49 pm

That's correct for the fuel pump relay. When you turn the ignition on the ECU runs the pump just for a second to prime the system but then shuts it off until you crank the engine.

If you put the ECU in test mode it will cycle the pump on and off.

But if you can't get the relay to click when you apply 12 volts to the coil, the relay's definitely broken.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:53 pm

Ordered new relays yesterday, guy even gave me a discount for being patient. ((senior citizen my ass)). Picked up a suburu Thermostate while I was there. IF everything falls into place then everything in my car will work correctly. for once.

Appritiate all the help vrg3. I owe you a pizza and a 6 pack of your favorite.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:04 pm

You're welcome. Let's hope it resolves the problem!

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:25 am

2 relays and a suburu thermostate. car starts and warms up, blower motar works, though not in defrost mode, everything else including the AC works but switch it to defrons and it dies... Ah well, I have hi/low mode for the mornings.

Still a bit concerned with the cooling system, heater begins to cool off if im sitting at a idle. pump the gas a bit and it warms up. when I opened the bleed screw on the radiator it blew a bunch of steam then coolant. I topped up the radiator but it still concerned me. Ill take it out on the freeway in a bit and see how it performs.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:35 am

You probably still have some air in the system. You can help get it out by repeatedly letting the engine warm fully up (so it turns on the fans) and then letting it cool completely down, checking that the overflow tank level is high enough after each cycle.

So pressing "Defrost" kills the blower? That's weird. I wonder if something inside the mode control box is bad.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:58 pm

Drove to work today. Overheated on the way there.

Filled it with coolant. made it probably 1/4 the way home and over heated again. Put probably 1/2 gallon of fluid in it. checked under the car. no drips or other obvious signs of a leak.

a mile or so later put anothe 1/2 gallon in. water this time. still no drips or leaks under the car exhaust isnt smokey or steamy. the Upper radiator hose is bloated. open the bleed valve. get a plume of steam. Water on the other side of the radiator(Filler neck) is luke warm. No matter what amount of fluid i put in the car brings the temp gauge below 4/5. as soon as I touch the gas petal it goes into the red.

Heater didnt work at all during this (blower worked, but was giving cold air).

For the love of God, SOMEONE tell me whats going on! The coolant has to be going somewhere! (oil appeared clear without the chokolate milk appearance of water contaminated oil)

Im tempted to just jerk the thermostate out and live with a car that takes 15 minutes to warm up but that isnt going to solve the problem.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:43 pm

It seems to me that the thermostat is the most likely culprit. Maybe it's defective (though it's extremely rare for them to be defective like this), or maybe it wasn't installed right?

As a check, it may make sense to remove the thermostat. Just be sure to use something to seal the thermostat housing against the water pump.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:48 pm

This is the second Thermostat to do this. the first a cheap schmucks unit. Also suspect is the fact the car didnt have a thermostat in it when I bought it.

My understanding is the Coil on the thermostat should face UP into the engine, and the "Jiggle valve" shoud "Be at 12 o clock". wich I assumed meant twords the radiator. all of this seem correct? (2.2 NA engine)

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:01 pm

Yes, that seems correct.

Hm, that is suspicious that a previous owner saw fit to remove the thermostat. It seems likely they were trying to mask another problem. Maybe the radiator's clogged, or the water pump is bad, or a head gasket is slightly leaky.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:21 pm

The radiator was my First guess.

Ill have luke warm water on the divers side and the passengers side will have so much steam and preassure the hose is bloating.

when I pulled the timing again I jerked the radiator and tried to do a reverse flush. no problems flowing full force from a garden hose and no garbage. Turned it around and ran the water the correct method. no garbage.

So either Water pump or head gasket...

One thing I failed to mention, If I get on the gas. comming out of a stoplight or whatever, when the engine is already warm the temerature spikes. like right now.

sound like a head gasket

oh joy.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:06 pm

So... um. Im talking with my Co-worker at shift change. telling her about the problems with my car and she pops off with, "Oh, your heater core is bad".

Heater core? well it IS hooked into the cooling system. but it think id notice a couple gallons of scalding hot coolant being dumped onto my floor boards.

Then again Ive been wrong before. COULD it be the heater core? My passenger carpet is a bit damp and I have noticed that hot antifreeze smell in the dirvers compartment when it gets hot.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:00 pm

Ooh. Yes, damp carpet and the smell of coolant do usually indicate a leaky heater core.

It sounds like a small leak, though, which shouldn't result in overheating. But small leaks rarely remain small for long.

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:05 pm

That's definately indicative of a heater core problem, although it may not be your only problem.

That smell is terrible, I've been there before with my old Saturn. Replacing the heater core wasn't fun on that thing. Is it as much of a PITA on the Leggy?

It's possible that the heater core only partially leaks into the cab, and partially leaks out along some frame rails for a while before dripping off or even evaporating. This makes it quite difficult to locate such a leak.

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still not running.