Fuel Pump connector

[joser]

Please help anyone!!!!

Ok now I have all the information to make diagnosis.
1. Fuel Relay is OK. I have tested it now and it works. (It clicks when powered).
2. I am receiving power to the 5pin connector in the back-- I think!!!

Now. this is where Im not fully understanding.
I have measured the voltage at the connector w/ the relay installed, and the igntion on AND off.
IGN ON: The numbers were 0, 11.3, 4.5v respectively from left to right.
IGN OFF: numbers were 000.

Now I removed the relay and took the same measurements. They were the SAME.
This leads me to believe that I am not receiving power to the 5pin connector. At least not from the relay. Which according to the diag

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... pdiag1.jpg

would be the number 1(3) at the connector r22.

Does anyone know if my hypothesis is correct?

Also...how do I make sure my ground to the fuel pump is properly ground. How do I locate it?

Cheers
J'

[joser]

I have just wired a direct line to the pump, and it didn't work.

I tried it on the lead that read 0V and also the one that read 11.5v. When connected to the 11.5v I got nothing (I think it was the 2,4 pins) When connected to the 0v (I think 1,3) it closed the circuit, but the pump didn't go.
I think this means that my pump is not working; if that is the case, does that mean that the 0v pin (1,3) is also not working? Do I need to buy an R22 connector/harness also?

[joser]

does anyone have any ideas on my post?
I am stuck in Ocala FL until I get my Subaru fixed. Im starting to loose my mind here.

[vrg3]

You can quickly check if the ground is the problem by just running a new ground to the pump directly.

If it is, you're not alone. The ground connection at R22 seems to go bad fairly commonly.

First, make sure you've looked through the wiring diagrams in the manuals Josh is hosting on his web site.

Now, remove the rear seat bottom and locate the 5-pin connector on the passenger side. This is R22. Check around pin 3 (the wire is black on both sides of the connector) for any signs of scorching. The scorching indicates a poor connection.

What most people do is cut this wire on either side of the connector and either splice the two sides directly together or put a new connector on those wires.

[joser]

Thanks for the quick rspns.
Now what about my voltage readings at the connector?
I have taken readings at the connector w/ the relay installed and w/ the relay out. How is it possible that I have the same voltage readings at the r22 connector?

Withe the clip of the r22 connector at 0 degrees, I have 5 pins in this order
123
45
Now pin 1,2,3 read 0v, 12v, 4.5v. If I remove the relay from I get the same readings. What does this mean?

[vrg3]

Did you refer to the wiring diagrams? You're distracting yourself from the actual problem by worrying about the voltages at the level sender pins and confusing me by making up your own pin numbering.

[joser]

My confusion is coming from the fact that none of the connectors in the diagrams, be it the Haynes manual or Josh web links match what i have in my Outback. Even the relay diag. did not look like what is under the dash. The only reason I knew to take out the relay I did was b/c it was green and the Haynes manual said that green was the fuel pump relay.

My r22 connector does not look like the one on the diag.
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... pdiag1.jpg
My r22 has all the pins in order 123, and then 45 directly under 1,2.

I think that the 1pin is the same. That being true, I think I am not getting any power to the fuel pump.

I have connected the pump straight to a battery and it doesn't run. I know that my pump is not working.
What I would like to know why I am receiving the same voltage at the r22 connector if I have removed the relay?

thanks for helping me out Vikash
J'

[Legacy777]

Well....that's the problem.....we were assuming you had a first generation legacy.

You do not.

Please ALWAYS post the year and model vehicle you're working on.

[joser]

Thanks for the heads up.
I have a 1996 Legacy Outback (wagon) 2.5L

[vrg3]

Oh. Woah. Yeah. What Josh said.

I don't know anything about your car.

Don't call it the R22 connector, since that's not what it is. In any case, if it is in fact a harness leading to the fuel pump assembly, it's possible you're measuring the voltages at the level sender or something.

When you hooked the pump directly to the battery, did you do that for both the positive and negative sides?

[joser]

The connector at the pump was rather small so I used clips to get in the tight spot. I connected both neg and positive.
Now there could be a possibility (small)that I could have closed the circuit b/c the connectors I used may have been close enought to arc.
Like I said the connector at the FP is like the r22 but in the order I specified above.
The connector looking like this

123
45

I hooked the power to 1,4 and it didn't go. I also hooked 2,5 and nothing. I will try again once the rain stops here.

Still I am confused on how I can have the same voltage readings w/ the relay installed, and removed.

J'

[joser]

Oh yeah that is assuming that 1 is the + lead and 4 is the (-).
same w/ 2,5
J'

[joser]

Is there a forum for 1996 Legacy owners? I just realized that this is for 89-94.
My bad, I just couldn't find anything else out there
J'

[vrg3]

BE CAREFUL NOT TO MAKE ELECTRICAL SPARKS AT THE FUEL PUMP!

I dunno. Maybe you have the wrong relay? On first-generation models the fuel pump relay is a cylindrical can waaay up under the dash on the driver's side, kind of against the inside of the firewall. It's on the same bracket as the brown box-shaped ignition relay.

If you shorted a circuit then you may have popped a fuse. Have you checked all your fuses?

If your priority is fixing your car, I think you should just replace the fuel pump if you know it's bad. That is most likely the only problem.

[Legacy777]

You can try www.ultimatesubaru.net/forum

[joser]

The fuses at the fuse box are fine. So are the ones under the hood.
I have taken apart the area under dash to get to the relay. I have found it, it is green and round. I took it in to get it tested and it works. I also know it works b/c when installed and I turn IGN on it clicks.

What I need to know before I go buy a new fuel pump is.....
Am I getting power to that connector (r22 in your case) to power the FP?
If the connector was bad, would I get any readings at the pins at all?
Why would I have the same voltage readings regardless if the relay is hooked up or not?

Now I take it your warning about sparks near fuel pump have to do w/ causing explosion or fire.

[vrg3]

You're sure that's the fuel pump relay?

I can't answer your questions about that connector, because I don't know the answers.

Yes, you are right about the reason for the warning.

Why do you need to know those things before you buy a new pump? If you know your pump is bad, then you know you need a new pump anyway.

[joser]

I am about as sure as the Haynes manual is.
The manual said to look under drivers dash, take fuse box out and that it is the one next to the brown square relay. It label it green.
Now I am not 100% sure b/c the diag. was not the same as what I had in my Outback. But I am sure I pulled the green one out.

Yes you are right. I will have to buy a new pump if my pump is bad.
The reason I want to know about the connector is that I may have to buy a new connector also. Also I am not 100% sure that I connected the FP properly b/c I do know know which one of the wires coming from the connector is the number 1 (livewire).
I guess the next step is to take the pump out and hotwire it properly. I think I may have closed the circuit when I hooked the battery to it because the pins are so close to each other. Only way to make sure is to take out pump. I will do that once the rain stops here.

Thanks guys
J'

[vrg3]

Hm. On first-generations the fuel pump relay is a metal-colored can, but it has a green connector.

The Haynes manual is a poor reference; I think it's very possible that you have some other relay.

I don't know where you would buy a new connector (which I still see no reason to suspect), but I would imagine it's not the same place that you'd buy the new pump anyway, right?

[joser]

yes the relay is a round, metal. It was the one w/ the green connector.
I got the right one.

Would anyone be able to tell me what voltage readings I need to have at the connector.
That would prob. help me out the most. That way I can know for sure if I am receiving power to the pump.

I have been reading other msg boards and no one actually tells which pin has to have power to it. They just say that they have power.....doesn't help me any.

Guess Ill keep researching!!!
J'

[vrg3]

Oh, okay, then, yeah, that does seem like it might be the right relay.

Unfortunately, not many people here intimately know second-generation Legacy wiring, so we can't give you information specific to that car.

In the end, though, the fuel pump only has two terminals on it, and they're usually labeled right on the pump. So you can check the voltage there. It should be +12v across the pump when the relay is active, and floating when it's not.

Be aware that the fuel pump does not run when the engine is not rotating, except for a 1-to-2-second-long priming pulse that happens immediately after the ignition is switched on after having been off for at least 5 to 10 seconds.

[joser]

I have found out that at the connector, it is the 1 pin that powers pump. it is blue/yellow. I have 0v there.
Now I have checked voltage at relay and get 12v at both the points I need.

Im a bit confused. I have power at the relay, but 0 at the connector.
Where am I to look next?
ECU?

J'

[vrg3]

Nope, not the ECU. If the relay is clicking on and off when it should, the ECU's doing its job.

Now you disconnect the relay again and check for continuity. First check that the relay's contacts have continuity when the relay is turned on, and then check that the fuel pump power wire has continuity to the relay socket.

[joser]

Just to make sure I understand what you posted....
ECU is working if I got voltage at the relay connector, or if it is clicking when ign is on. I got that.

So you want me to take relay out, and check for continutity at the relay pins (between 1,3 and 2,4)?
So this basicallly checks that the relay is working?

I should check for CONT from relay to the fuel pump connector? If so, how should I go about that? The distance from the FP relay to the FP connector in the hatch is quite long. How can I achieve this?

Thanks again
J'

[joser]

Pump is bad,
I have checked all points at relay, and connector and contrary to my prev. post I have power.
The problem was that the power is not at the connector unless the car is turning.
Once I fig this out, I checked for cont. at b/w the connector and relay and it was 0 ohms.
Took out the pump and hotwired and it didn't work.
Just bought a new pump and filter and bout to mount them.

Thanks for all your help fellas. (Josh and Vikash).
Much apprish!
J'