I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now and
have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of secondhand
Japanese market Legacy's available.
I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so on)
and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well as what
to avoid.
I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but would like
to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers and
would not want this to happen to me.
What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners before
the end of the year.
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Advice on Legacy Sedan
Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators
-
Barrett, Sam
Advice on Legacy Sedan
Hmmm... Buying a car. Yummy.
Firstly you have to ask yourself some questions.
How much $ do you have to blow.
What function is the car going to perform. (daily driver, weekend rally racer, second car, etc)
How much stuff (people) do you haul around
Do you want to modify it or just run it stock
The answer to these questions will decide a few things. Wagon vs sedan, GT vs RS, To modify or not to modify and if so should you get one with a stock turbo etc.
-Sambo
P.S. we are always here to help out where we can!
-----Original Message-----
From: Kimani Njonjo [mailto:knjonjo@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:45 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on Legacy Sedan
I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now and
have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of secondhand
Japanese market Legacy's available.
I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so on)
and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well as what
to avoid.
I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but would like
to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers and
would not want this to happen to me.
What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners before
the end of the year.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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Firstly you have to ask yourself some questions.
How much $ do you have to blow.
What function is the car going to perform. (daily driver, weekend rally racer, second car, etc)
How much stuff (people) do you haul around
Do you want to modify it or just run it stock
The answer to these questions will decide a few things. Wagon vs sedan, GT vs RS, To modify or not to modify and if so should you get one with a stock turbo etc.
-Sambo
P.S. we are always here to help out where we can!
-----Original Message-----
From: Kimani Njonjo [mailto:knjonjo@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:45 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on Legacy Sedan
I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now and
have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of secondhand
Japanese market Legacy's available.
I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so on)
and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well as what
to avoid.
I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but would like
to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers and
would not want this to happen to me.
What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners before
the end of the year.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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<http://click.egroups.com/1/9646/2/_/_/_/972403173/>
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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-
John Gillon
Advice on Legacy Sedan
It sounds like Kenya has a similar market to New Zealand, as we have
many JUV (Japan Used Vehicles) imported for over 10 years.
The Japanese model names vary somewhat from other markets. For 89-93
(90-94 in the USA), the models that you mention are...
- VZ = top of the line options in sedan and wagon, normally-
aspirated, also available in "type R" variant (rally strip-out... no
electric glass, etc), and very rare with manual transmission
- RS = top of the line sedan, turbo, also in "type R" and "type RA
(STI built rally homolugation), and always manual transmission
- GT = top of the line sedan with auto transmission, or wagon with
auto or manual transmission, and very rare variants of GTS2
(predecessor to the "GT-B spec" and GT-B) and apparently there were
some STI specials
IMO, the models to buy are the RS sedan or GT wagon with manual
transmission, or the type R / RA. Wagons are easier to get than
sedans due to popularity of wagons in Japan. Be aware that a turbo
will drink 50% to 100% more fuel, more frequent oil changes, general
maintenance, and I would have concerns for operation in high ambient
temperatures that you get in Kenya?
On the downside, turbo manual cars tend to have had "harder" owners,
and the Japanese do not maintain their vehicles very well... if at
all!
Keep away from auto transmission, as they they have inherently flawed
design unless rebuilt and modified.
Mileage authenticity is a "hot" issue, and the Japanese auction
system is starting to regulate in an attempt to prevent odometer
fraud, but it is almost impossible to be certain that someone in the
distribution chain has not "flicked" the speedo.
I suggest that you test-drive a few, get to know what a good tight
vehicle feels like... inspect the obvious major wear indicators, such
as engine blow-by, suspension bounce, disk rotor wear, control pedal
rubbers, etc. There is no real indicative mileage to expect for 91/92
age vehicles ex Japan... it could be anywhere between 50,000kms or
250,000 kms. With JUVs, it is better to learn how to determine a
vechicle milage by these wear indicators, and then check the odometer
to verify whether it most like to have been flicked or not.
John Gillon
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Kimani Njonjo" <knjonjo@h...>
wrote:
> I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now and
> have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
> sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
>
> I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of secondhand
> Japanese market Legacy's available.
>
> I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so on)
> and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well as
what
> to avoid.
>
> I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but would
like
> to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
> several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers and
> would not want this to happen to me.
>
> What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
>
> I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners
before
> the end of the year.
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
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It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
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---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
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BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
many JUV (Japan Used Vehicles) imported for over 10 years.
The Japanese model names vary somewhat from other markets. For 89-93
(90-94 in the USA), the models that you mention are...
- VZ = top of the line options in sedan and wagon, normally-
aspirated, also available in "type R" variant (rally strip-out... no
electric glass, etc), and very rare with manual transmission
- RS = top of the line sedan, turbo, also in "type R" and "type RA
(STI built rally homolugation), and always manual transmission
- GT = top of the line sedan with auto transmission, or wagon with
auto or manual transmission, and very rare variants of GTS2
(predecessor to the "GT-B spec" and GT-B) and apparently there were
some STI specials
IMO, the models to buy are the RS sedan or GT wagon with manual
transmission, or the type R / RA. Wagons are easier to get than
sedans due to popularity of wagons in Japan. Be aware that a turbo
will drink 50% to 100% more fuel, more frequent oil changes, general
maintenance, and I would have concerns for operation in high ambient
temperatures that you get in Kenya?
On the downside, turbo manual cars tend to have had "harder" owners,
and the Japanese do not maintain their vehicles very well... if at
all!
Keep away from auto transmission, as they they have inherently flawed
design unless rebuilt and modified.
Mileage authenticity is a "hot" issue, and the Japanese auction
system is starting to regulate in an attempt to prevent odometer
fraud, but it is almost impossible to be certain that someone in the
distribution chain has not "flicked" the speedo.
I suggest that you test-drive a few, get to know what a good tight
vehicle feels like... inspect the obvious major wear indicators, such
as engine blow-by, suspension bounce, disk rotor wear, control pedal
rubbers, etc. There is no real indicative mileage to expect for 91/92
age vehicles ex Japan... it could be anywhere between 50,000kms or
250,000 kms. With JUVs, it is better to learn how to determine a
vechicle milage by these wear indicators, and then check the odometer
to verify whether it most like to have been flicked or not.
John Gillon
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Kimani Njonjo" <knjonjo@h...>
wrote:
> I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now and
> have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
> sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
>
> I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of secondhand
> Japanese market Legacy's available.
>
> I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so on)
> and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well as
what
> to avoid.
>
> I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but would
like
> to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
> several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers and
> would not want this to happen to me.
>
> What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
>
> I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners
before
> the end of the year.
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
eLerts
It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/2/_/_/_/972481907/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
-
Kimani Njonjo
Advice on Legacy Sedan
Thanks John,
I have already test driven a few and have fallen in love with the RS
Sedan. They are harder to come by than wagons, but I know of a few
more on the market.
I live in Nairobi where the temperatures typically range between 10
to 30 degrees Celcius throughout the year. Would an intercooler be
advisable for the turbo?
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon" <grilla@i...>
wrote:
> It sounds like Kenya has a similar market to New Zealand, as we
have
> many JUV (Japan Used Vehicles) imported for over 10 years.
>
> The Japanese model names vary somewhat from other markets. For 89-
93
> (90-94 in the USA), the models that you mention are...
>
> - VZ = top of the line options in sedan and wagon, normally-
> aspirated, also available in "type R" variant (rally strip-out...
no
> electric glass, etc), and very rare with manual transmission
>
> - RS = top of the line sedan, turbo, also in "type R" and "type RA
> (STI built rally homolugation), and always manual transmission
>
> - GT = top of the line sedan with auto transmission, or wagon with
> auto or manual transmission, and very rare variants of GTS2
> (predecessor to the "GT-B spec" and GT-B) and apparently there were
> some STI specials
>
> IMO, the models to buy are the RS sedan or GT wagon with manual
> transmission, or the type R / RA. Wagons are easier to get than
> sedans due to popularity of wagons in Japan. Be aware that a turbo
> will drink 50% to 100% more fuel, more frequent oil changes,
general
> maintenance, and I would have concerns for operation in high
ambient
> temperatures that you get in Kenya?
>
> On the downside, turbo manual cars tend to have had "harder"
owners,
> and the Japanese do not maintain their vehicles very well... if at
> all!
>
> Keep away from auto transmission, as they they have inherently
flawed
> design unless rebuilt and modified.
>
> Mileage authenticity is a "hot" issue, and the Japanese auction
> system is starting to regulate in an attempt to prevent odometer
> fraud, but it is almost impossible to be certain that someone in
the
> distribution chain has not "flicked" the speedo.
>
> I suggest that you test-drive a few, get to know what a good tight
> vehicle feels like... inspect the obvious major wear indicators,
such
> as engine blow-by, suspension bounce, disk rotor wear, control
pedal
> rubbers, etc. There is no real indicative mileage to expect for
91/92
> age vehicles ex Japan... it could be anywhere between 50,000kms or
> 250,000 kms. With JUVs, it is better to learn how to determine a
> vechicle milage by these wear indicators, and then check the
odometer
> to verify whether it most like to have been flicked or not.
>
> John Gillon
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Kimani Njonjo" <knjonjo@h...>
> wrote:
> > I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now
and
> > have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
> > sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
> >
> > I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of
secondhand
> > Japanese market Legacy's available.
> >
> > I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so
on)
> > and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well as
> what
> > to avoid.
> >
> > I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but would
> like
> > to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
> > several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers
and
> > would not want this to happen to me.
> >
> > What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
> >
> > I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners
> before
> > the end of the year.
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
eGroups eLerts
It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/2/_/_/_/972538293/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
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BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
I have already test driven a few and have fallen in love with the RS
Sedan. They are harder to come by than wagons, but I know of a few
more on the market.
I live in Nairobi where the temperatures typically range between 10
to 30 degrees Celcius throughout the year. Would an intercooler be
advisable for the turbo?
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon" <grilla@i...>
wrote:
> It sounds like Kenya has a similar market to New Zealand, as we
have
> many JUV (Japan Used Vehicles) imported for over 10 years.
>
> The Japanese model names vary somewhat from other markets. For 89-
93
> (90-94 in the USA), the models that you mention are...
>
> - VZ = top of the line options in sedan and wagon, normally-
> aspirated, also available in "type R" variant (rally strip-out...
no
> electric glass, etc), and very rare with manual transmission
>
> - RS = top of the line sedan, turbo, also in "type R" and "type RA
> (STI built rally homolugation), and always manual transmission
>
> - GT = top of the line sedan with auto transmission, or wagon with
> auto or manual transmission, and very rare variants of GTS2
> (predecessor to the "GT-B spec" and GT-B) and apparently there were
> some STI specials
>
> IMO, the models to buy are the RS sedan or GT wagon with manual
> transmission, or the type R / RA. Wagons are easier to get than
> sedans due to popularity of wagons in Japan. Be aware that a turbo
> will drink 50% to 100% more fuel, more frequent oil changes,
general
> maintenance, and I would have concerns for operation in high
ambient
> temperatures that you get in Kenya?
>
> On the downside, turbo manual cars tend to have had "harder"
owners,
> and the Japanese do not maintain their vehicles very well... if at
> all!
>
> Keep away from auto transmission, as they they have inherently
flawed
> design unless rebuilt and modified.
>
> Mileage authenticity is a "hot" issue, and the Japanese auction
> system is starting to regulate in an attempt to prevent odometer
> fraud, but it is almost impossible to be certain that someone in
the
> distribution chain has not "flicked" the speedo.
>
> I suggest that you test-drive a few, get to know what a good tight
> vehicle feels like... inspect the obvious major wear indicators,
such
> as engine blow-by, suspension bounce, disk rotor wear, control
pedal
> rubbers, etc. There is no real indicative mileage to expect for
91/92
> age vehicles ex Japan... it could be anywhere between 50,000kms or
> 250,000 kms. With JUVs, it is better to learn how to determine a
> vechicle milage by these wear indicators, and then check the
odometer
> to verify whether it most like to have been flicked or not.
>
> John Gillon
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Kimani Njonjo" <knjonjo@h...>
> wrote:
> > I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now
and
> > have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
> > sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
> >
> > I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of
secondhand
> > Japanese market Legacy's available.
> >
> > I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so
on)
> > and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well as
> what
> > to avoid.
> >
> > I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but would
> like
> > to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
> > several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers
and
> > would not want this to happen to me.
> >
> > What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
> >
> > I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners
> before
> > the end of the year.
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
eGroups eLerts
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http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/2/_/_/_/972538293/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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-
Kimani Njonjo
Advice on Legacy Sedan
Hi Sam,
Right now the price is not so significant. The main function of the
car will be as a daily driver commuting to work coupled with 200-
300km trips during weekends.
I commute with one passenger during the week, but weekends may
include up to four adults with minimal luggage (sedan?).
I would like to modify the vehicle, but over a period of time and not
initially after purchase. I would therefore like it to perform well
from the word go (turbo?).
Also it must be a 5 speed manual as I have heard that auto's are not
so reliable, plus the cost of parts and labour in Kenya would be
crazy.
Thanks
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Barrett, Sam" <samb@v...> wrote:
> Hmmm... Buying a car. Yummy.
>
> Firstly you have to ask yourself some questions.
>
> How much $ do you have to blow.
> What function is the car going to perform. (daily driver, weekend
rally
> racer, second car, etc)
> How much stuff (people) do you haul around
> Do you want to modify it or just run it stock
> The answer to these questions will decide a few things. Wagon vs
sedan, GT
> vs RS, To modify or not to modify and if so should you get one with
a stock
> turbo etc.
>
> -Sambo
>
> P.S. we are always here to help out where we can!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kimani Njonjo [mailto:knjonjo@h...]
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:45 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on Legacy Sedan
>
>
> I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now and
> have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
> sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
>
> I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of secondhand
> Japanese market Legacy's available.
>
> I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so on)
> and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well as
what
> to avoid.
>
> I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but would
like
> to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
> several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers and
> would not want this to happen to me.
>
> What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
>
> I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners
before
> the end of the year.
>
>
>
> eGroups Sponsor
> <http://click.egroups.com/1/9663/2/_/_/_/972366310/>
>
>
>
<http://adimg.egroups.com/img/9663/2/_/_ ... Shopping46
8x602E
> .gif>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
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---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
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BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Right now the price is not so significant. The main function of the
car will be as a daily driver commuting to work coupled with 200-
300km trips during weekends.
I commute with one passenger during the week, but weekends may
include up to four adults with minimal luggage (sedan?).
I would like to modify the vehicle, but over a period of time and not
initially after purchase. I would therefore like it to perform well
from the word go (turbo?).
Also it must be a 5 speed manual as I have heard that auto's are not
so reliable, plus the cost of parts and labour in Kenya would be
crazy.
Thanks
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Barrett, Sam" <samb@v...> wrote:
> Hmmm... Buying a car. Yummy.
>
> Firstly you have to ask yourself some questions.
>
> How much $ do you have to blow.
> What function is the car going to perform. (daily driver, weekend
rally
> racer, second car, etc)
> How much stuff (people) do you haul around
> Do you want to modify it or just run it stock
> The answer to these questions will decide a few things. Wagon vs
sedan, GT
> vs RS, To modify or not to modify and if so should you get one with
a stock
> turbo etc.
>
> -Sambo
>
> P.S. we are always here to help out where we can!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kimani Njonjo [mailto:knjonjo@h...]
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:45 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on Legacy Sedan
>
>
> I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now and
> have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
> sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
>
> I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of secondhand
> Japanese market Legacy's available.
>
> I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so on)
> and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well as
what
> to avoid.
>
> I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but would
like
> to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
> several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers and
> would not want this to happen to me.
>
> What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
>
> I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners
before
> the end of the year.
>
>
>
> eGroups Sponsor
> <http://click.egroups.com/1/9663/2/_/_/_/972366310/>
>
>
>
<http://adimg.egroups.com/img/9663/2/_/_ ... Shopping46
8x602E
> .gif>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
eLerts
It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/2/_/_/_/972538694/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
-
Barrett, Sam
Advice on Legacy Sedan
You need a turbo sedan manual tranny.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kimani Njonjo [mailto:knjonjo@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 10:38 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: Advice on Legacy Sedan
Hi Sam,
Right now the price is not so significant. The main function of the
car will be as a daily driver commuting to work coupled with 200-
300km trips during weekends.
I commute with one passenger during the week, but weekends may
include up to four adults with minimal luggage (sedan?).
I would like to modify the vehicle, but over a period of time and not
initially after purchase. I would therefore like it to perform well
from the word go (turbo?).
Also it must be a 5 speed manual as I have heard that auto's are not
so reliable, plus the cost of parts and labour in Kenya would be
crazy.
Thanks
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Barrett, Sam" <samb@v...> wrote:
> Hmmm... Buying a car. Yummy.
>
> Firstly you have to ask yourself some questions.
>
> How much $ do you have to blow.
> What function is the car going to perform. (daily driver, weekend
rally
> racer, second car, etc)
> How much stuff (people) do you haul around
> Do you want to modify it or just run it stock
> The answer to these questions will decide a few things. Wagon vs
sedan, GT
> vs RS, To modify or not to modify and if so should you get one with
a stock
> turbo etc.
>
> -Sambo
>
> P.S. we are always here to help out where we can!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kimani Njonjo [mailto:knjonjo@h...]
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:45 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on Legacy Sedan
>
>
> I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now and
> have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
> sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
>
> I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of secondhand
> Japanese market Legacy's available.
>
> I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so on)
> and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well as
what
> to avoid.
>
> I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but would
like
> to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
> several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers and
> would not want this to happen to me.
>
> What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
>
> I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners
before
> the end of the year.
>
>
>
> eGroups Sponsor
> < http://click.egroups.com/1/9663/2/_/_/_/972366310/>
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>
>
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> .gif>
>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Kimani Njonjo [mailto:knjonjo@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 10:38 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: Advice on Legacy Sedan
Hi Sam,
Right now the price is not so significant. The main function of the
car will be as a daily driver commuting to work coupled with 200-
300km trips during weekends.
I commute with one passenger during the week, but weekends may
include up to four adults with minimal luggage (sedan?).
I would like to modify the vehicle, but over a period of time and not
initially after purchase. I would therefore like it to perform well
from the word go (turbo?).
Also it must be a 5 speed manual as I have heard that auto's are not
so reliable, plus the cost of parts and labour in Kenya would be
crazy.
Thanks
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Barrett, Sam" <samb@v...> wrote:
> Hmmm... Buying a car. Yummy.
>
> Firstly you have to ask yourself some questions.
>
> How much $ do you have to blow.
> What function is the car going to perform. (daily driver, weekend
rally
> racer, second car, etc)
> How much stuff (people) do you haul around
> Do you want to modify it or just run it stock
> The answer to these questions will decide a few things. Wagon vs
sedan, GT
> vs RS, To modify or not to modify and if so should you get one with
a stock
> turbo etc.
>
> -Sambo
>
> P.S. we are always here to help out where we can!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kimani Njonjo [mailto:knjonjo@h...]
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:45 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on Legacy Sedan
>
>
> I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now and
> have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
> sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
>
> I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of secondhand
> Japanese market Legacy's available.
>
> I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so on)
> and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well as
what
> to avoid.
>
> I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but would
like
> to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
> several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers and
> would not want this to happen to me.
>
> What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
>
> I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners
before
> the end of the year.
>
>
>
> eGroups Sponsor
> < http://click.egroups.com/1/9663/2/_/_/_/972366310/>
>
>
>
< http://adimg.egroups.com/img/9663/2/_/_ ... Shopping46
8x602E
> .gif>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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-
John Gillon
Advice on Legacy Sedan
Hiya Kimani,
OK, you have your sights on an RS ...good choice!
Nairobi temperatures are lower than I assumed, and you won't have a
problem.
If it is a Japan origin turbo, it already has an intercooler. On the
BC-BF the intercooler is a water cooled unit with it's pump and tank
seperate to the engine cooling system. The hood scoop provides
cooling air to the intake side of the turbo housing, and does not
cool the intercooler.
The air cooled type used on the WRX or Legacy BG-BH models is more
efficient, but signifcant modifications are needed to fit to a BC-BF
Legacy. It would probably be easier to make your own air-air type
intercooler, if you really wanted to perform such a modification.
An RS has about 200hp in stock form, and performance gains to achieve
250hp are reasonably easy to do... albeit that you should have a
clear idea of what your end target should be. Implementing
performance modifications should be done in a specific order, and
care taken to ensure that the overall balance of engine management is
maintained. eg. a 2 1/2" exhaust sytem on a target 250hp engine is
more efficient that a 3" system
As far as watching for warning signs on your prospective purchase of
an RS... check the common BC-BF weaknesses as follows...
- engine oil contamination (sludge)
Turbos are very hard on oil temperatures, and the Japanese generally
do not change their oil frequently enough.
Check the PCV breather hoses for signs of sludge, as the dealer will
most likely have already changed the oil, and wiped out the filler
cap.
- hydraulic lifter noise and oil volume
The oil pump wears with oil contamination, and when outside the
design limit and with cold oil, it does not supply sufficient volume
to the lifters... and the rest of the engine! ie. the lifers are
quite OK, but the engine oil pressure is reduced, indicating a worn
oil pump.
Start the engine from dead-cold, and listen for "significant"
noise... don't worry about the "background rumble" as Subbies always
sound fairly "boney" from cold, but listen for stand-out percussion
sounds from the lifers.
- cooling system condition
Alloy engines should have glycol changes at a minimum of 2 years.
Again, the Japanese tend not to maintain this frequency, and aged
coolant becomes corrosive (PH changes),... and as the EJ20 does not
have a large amount of alloy casting (particularly in the head gasket
area), the head gaskets blow, coolant is ejected from the overflow
reservoir, the engine coolant level lowers, and the engine overheats.
The BC-BF heads are also a little susceptible to cracking, possibly
from overheating or by encumbent design.
If this coolant system failure occurs, the temperature sensor and
gauge will provide little warning... due to where the sensor is
mounted on the engine block, and as the coolant lowers past the
sensor, there will only be the briefest of gauge increase then the
gauge resumes it's normal position. ie. the sensor is not positioned
in the coolant any longer, so as far as it is concerned everything is
OK!
It is messy and dangerous, but CAREFULLY remove the header tank cap
on a DEAD-COLD engine, and check the coolant for good clean glycol,
start the engine, monitor the header tank fill neck for air bubbles
(ongoing large bubbles or a continuous fine stream indicate a
pressure leak). Whilst running the engine up to temperature, raise
the engine rpm sporadically, and continue monitoring... coolant will
be expelled from the filler neck as the temperature rises. Very
carefully, slowly and intermittently replace and remove the filler
cap a couple of times in order to pressurise the cooling system...
continue monitoring til you feel it is about time that things are
getting too hot to handle... then finally replace the filler cap and
replace the lost coolant via the overflow reservoir.
If practical, monitor the overflow reservoir level throughout a
complete deadcold - to hot with revs - then cooldown cycle. The level
should increase with temperature, then be returned to the cooling
system, with no loss of coolant.
Other than the above check of fluid integrity, other known weaknesses
of the RS are...
- fracture of the overflow revervoir nipple at the coolant system
header tank
- failure of the "over-sparkplug" coils
- weeping of oil from the lower corners of the cam covers
- flawed sun visor design
- failure of central lock door servos
- the clutch, gearbox and brakes are not rugged and do not endure a
lot of abuse
- the headlight design could be better
- the steering and suspension geometry are a compromise, causing
issues with understeer and scrubbing of tyre's inner edges
Otherwise, the RS is a good package. The weaknesses can be addressed
but a good maintenance history is vital.
John Gillon
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Kimani Njonjo" <knjonjo@h...>
wrote:
> Thanks John,
>
> I have already test driven a few and have fallen in love with the
RS
> Sedan. They are harder to come by than wagons, but I know of a few
> more on the market.
>
> I live in Nairobi where the temperatures typically range between 10
> to 30 degrees Celcius throughout the year. Would an intercooler be
> advisable for the turbo?
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon" <grilla@i...>
> wrote:
> > It sounds like Kenya has a similar market to New Zealand, as we
> have
> > many JUV (Japan Used Vehicles) imported for over 10 years.
> >
> > The Japanese model names vary somewhat from other markets. For 89-
> 93
> > (90-94 in the USA), the models that you mention are...
> >
> > - VZ = top of the line options in sedan and wagon, normally-
> > aspirated, also available in "type R" variant (rally strip-out...
> no
> > electric glass, etc), and very rare with manual transmission
> >
> > - RS = top of the line sedan, turbo, also in "type R" and "type
RA
> > (STI built rally homolugation), and always manual transmission
> >
> > - GT = top of the line sedan with auto transmission, or wagon
with
> > auto or manual transmission, and very rare variants of GTS2
> > (predecessor to the "GT-B spec" and GT-B) and apparently there
were
> > some STI specials
> >
> > IMO, the models to buy are the RS sedan or GT wagon with manual
> > transmission, or the type R / RA. Wagons are easier to get than
> > sedans due to popularity of wagons in Japan. Be aware that a
turbo
> > will drink 50% to 100% more fuel, more frequent oil changes,
> general
> > maintenance, and I would have concerns for operation in high
> ambient
> > temperatures that you get in Kenya?
> >
> > On the downside, turbo manual cars tend to have had "harder"
> owners,
> > and the Japanese do not maintain their vehicles very well... if
at
> > all!
> >
> > Keep away from auto transmission, as they they have inherently
> flawed
> > design unless rebuilt and modified.
> >
> > Mileage authenticity is a "hot" issue, and the Japanese auction
> > system is starting to regulate in an attempt to prevent odometer
> > fraud, but it is almost impossible to be certain that someone in
> the
> > distribution chain has not "flicked" the speedo.
> >
> > I suggest that you test-drive a few, get to know what a good
tight
> > vehicle feels like... inspect the obvious major wear indicators,
> such
> > as engine blow-by, suspension bounce, disk rotor wear, control
> pedal
> > rubbers, etc. There is no real indicative mileage to expect for
> 91/92
> > age vehicles ex Japan... it could be anywhere between 50,000kms
or
> > 250,000 kms. With JUVs, it is better to learn how to determine a
> > vechicle milage by these wear indicators, and then check the
> odometer
> > to verify whether it most like to have been flicked or not.
> >
> > John Gillon
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Kimani Njonjo"
<knjonjo@h...>
> > wrote:
> > > I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now
> and
> > > have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
> > > sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
> > >
> > > I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of
> secondhand
> > > Japanese market Legacy's available.
> > >
> > > I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so
> on)
> > > and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well
as
> > what
> > > to avoid.
> > >
> > > I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but
would
> > like
> > > to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
> > > several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers
> and
> > > would not want this to happen to me.
> > >
> > > What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
> > >
> > > I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners
> > before
> > > the end of the year.
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---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
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BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
OK, you have your sights on an RS ...good choice!
Nairobi temperatures are lower than I assumed, and you won't have a
problem.
If it is a Japan origin turbo, it already has an intercooler. On the
BC-BF the intercooler is a water cooled unit with it's pump and tank
seperate to the engine cooling system. The hood scoop provides
cooling air to the intake side of the turbo housing, and does not
cool the intercooler.
The air cooled type used on the WRX or Legacy BG-BH models is more
efficient, but signifcant modifications are needed to fit to a BC-BF
Legacy. It would probably be easier to make your own air-air type
intercooler, if you really wanted to perform such a modification.
An RS has about 200hp in stock form, and performance gains to achieve
250hp are reasonably easy to do... albeit that you should have a
clear idea of what your end target should be. Implementing
performance modifications should be done in a specific order, and
care taken to ensure that the overall balance of engine management is
maintained. eg. a 2 1/2" exhaust sytem on a target 250hp engine is
more efficient that a 3" system
As far as watching for warning signs on your prospective purchase of
an RS... check the common BC-BF weaknesses as follows...
- engine oil contamination (sludge)
Turbos are very hard on oil temperatures, and the Japanese generally
do not change their oil frequently enough.
Check the PCV breather hoses for signs of sludge, as the dealer will
most likely have already changed the oil, and wiped out the filler
cap.
- hydraulic lifter noise and oil volume
The oil pump wears with oil contamination, and when outside the
design limit and with cold oil, it does not supply sufficient volume
to the lifters... and the rest of the engine! ie. the lifers are
quite OK, but the engine oil pressure is reduced, indicating a worn
oil pump.
Start the engine from dead-cold, and listen for "significant"
noise... don't worry about the "background rumble" as Subbies always
sound fairly "boney" from cold, but listen for stand-out percussion
sounds from the lifers.
- cooling system condition
Alloy engines should have glycol changes at a minimum of 2 years.
Again, the Japanese tend not to maintain this frequency, and aged
coolant becomes corrosive (PH changes),... and as the EJ20 does not
have a large amount of alloy casting (particularly in the head gasket
area), the head gaskets blow, coolant is ejected from the overflow
reservoir, the engine coolant level lowers, and the engine overheats.
The BC-BF heads are also a little susceptible to cracking, possibly
from overheating or by encumbent design.
If this coolant system failure occurs, the temperature sensor and
gauge will provide little warning... due to where the sensor is
mounted on the engine block, and as the coolant lowers past the
sensor, there will only be the briefest of gauge increase then the
gauge resumes it's normal position. ie. the sensor is not positioned
in the coolant any longer, so as far as it is concerned everything is
OK!
It is messy and dangerous, but CAREFULLY remove the header tank cap
on a DEAD-COLD engine, and check the coolant for good clean glycol,
start the engine, monitor the header tank fill neck for air bubbles
(ongoing large bubbles or a continuous fine stream indicate a
pressure leak). Whilst running the engine up to temperature, raise
the engine rpm sporadically, and continue monitoring... coolant will
be expelled from the filler neck as the temperature rises. Very
carefully, slowly and intermittently replace and remove the filler
cap a couple of times in order to pressurise the cooling system...
continue monitoring til you feel it is about time that things are
getting too hot to handle... then finally replace the filler cap and
replace the lost coolant via the overflow reservoir.
If practical, monitor the overflow reservoir level throughout a
complete deadcold - to hot with revs - then cooldown cycle. The level
should increase with temperature, then be returned to the cooling
system, with no loss of coolant.
Other than the above check of fluid integrity, other known weaknesses
of the RS are...
- fracture of the overflow revervoir nipple at the coolant system
header tank
- failure of the "over-sparkplug" coils
- weeping of oil from the lower corners of the cam covers
- flawed sun visor design
- failure of central lock door servos
- the clutch, gearbox and brakes are not rugged and do not endure a
lot of abuse
- the headlight design could be better
- the steering and suspension geometry are a compromise, causing
issues with understeer and scrubbing of tyre's inner edges
Otherwise, the RS is a good package. The weaknesses can be addressed
but a good maintenance history is vital.
John Gillon
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Kimani Njonjo" <knjonjo@h...>
wrote:
> Thanks John,
>
> I have already test driven a few and have fallen in love with the
RS
> Sedan. They are harder to come by than wagons, but I know of a few
> more on the market.
>
> I live in Nairobi where the temperatures typically range between 10
> to 30 degrees Celcius throughout the year. Would an intercooler be
> advisable for the turbo?
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "John Gillon" <grilla@i...>
> wrote:
> > It sounds like Kenya has a similar market to New Zealand, as we
> have
> > many JUV (Japan Used Vehicles) imported for over 10 years.
> >
> > The Japanese model names vary somewhat from other markets. For 89-
> 93
> > (90-94 in the USA), the models that you mention are...
> >
> > - VZ = top of the line options in sedan and wagon, normally-
> > aspirated, also available in "type R" variant (rally strip-out...
> no
> > electric glass, etc), and very rare with manual transmission
> >
> > - RS = top of the line sedan, turbo, also in "type R" and "type
RA
> > (STI built rally homolugation), and always manual transmission
> >
> > - GT = top of the line sedan with auto transmission, or wagon
with
> > auto or manual transmission, and very rare variants of GTS2
> > (predecessor to the "GT-B spec" and GT-B) and apparently there
were
> > some STI specials
> >
> > IMO, the models to buy are the RS sedan or GT wagon with manual
> > transmission, or the type R / RA. Wagons are easier to get than
> > sedans due to popularity of wagons in Japan. Be aware that a
turbo
> > will drink 50% to 100% more fuel, more frequent oil changes,
> general
> > maintenance, and I would have concerns for operation in high
> ambient
> > temperatures that you get in Kenya?
> >
> > On the downside, turbo manual cars tend to have had "harder"
> owners,
> > and the Japanese do not maintain their vehicles very well... if
at
> > all!
> >
> > Keep away from auto transmission, as they they have inherently
> flawed
> > design unless rebuilt and modified.
> >
> > Mileage authenticity is a "hot" issue, and the Japanese auction
> > system is starting to regulate in an attempt to prevent odometer
> > fraud, but it is almost impossible to be certain that someone in
> the
> > distribution chain has not "flicked" the speedo.
> >
> > I suggest that you test-drive a few, get to know what a good
tight
> > vehicle feels like... inspect the obvious major wear indicators,
> such
> > as engine blow-by, suspension bounce, disk rotor wear, control
> pedal
> > rubbers, etc. There is no real indicative mileage to expect for
> 91/92
> > age vehicles ex Japan... it could be anywhere between 50,000kms
or
> > 250,000 kms. With JUVs, it is better to learn how to determine a
> > vechicle milage by these wear indicators, and then check the
> odometer
> > to verify whether it most like to have been flicked or not.
> >
> > John Gillon
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com, "Kimani Njonjo"
<knjonjo@h...>
> > wrote:
> > > I've been interested in getting a legacy sedan for a while now
> and
> > > have been following the posts on the site. One thing's for
> > > sure...when I get one, I can count on you guys for help.
> > >
> > > I live in Kenya and recently there are a large number of
> secondhand
> > > Japanese market Legacy's available.
> > >
> > > I have noticed that there are many variants (Vz, GT, RS and so
> on)
> > > and would like advice on what to get (or try and get) as well
as
> > what
> > > to avoid.
> > >
> > > I have been thinking along the lines of a 91/92 turbo, but
would
> > like
> > > to know if there is anything I should look out for. I have had
> > > several friends who have been duped by unscrupulous car dealers
> and
> > > would not want this to happen to me.
> > >
> > > What should the typical mileage for a 91/92 car be?
> > >
> > > I hope to join the ranks of proud and satisfied legacy owners
> > before
> > > the end of the year.
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
eLerts
It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/2/_/_/_/972647484/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
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