H6 swap - anyone have a feel for the fuel mileage?

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Fri May 30, 2008 11:36 am

Does anyone have a feel for what the fuel mileage would be like with a swap to the H6 from the 01 outback? It would be going into a sedan with either a 3.90 or 4.111 final g/r.

I see numbers that would suggest that the LL bean would get 27 mpg on the highway. I think the weight of the Outback vs BC is pretty significant (on the order of 500+ lbs).

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Fri May 30, 2008 1:06 pm

I'd guess at least the stock rated MPGs if everything is running properly.
Are you sure of the 500lb weight difference, my SS weighs 3340lbs with me in it (I'm skinny) & I can't see an Outback weighing 38-3900lbs.

Some of these engines are drive by wire / "chip keyed" make sure you get everything you'll need to swap it in if you get one.

94SS_Canada · Post by **94SS_Canada** » Fri May 30, 2008 6:39 pm

keep in mind, your not doing this swap for mileage but for 6 boxxer cylinders!

SubaruNation · Post by **SubaruNation** » Fri May 30, 2008 6:53 pm

outbacks are HEAVY.

your car is alot lighter so you might even get better mileage than the stock outback.

good luck if you swap it, that would be sweet

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Fri May 30, 2008 7:09 pm

I vote for boosted EZ30R...

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:00 pm

BXSS wrote:I'd guess at least the stock rated MPGs if everything is running properly.
Are you sure of the 500lb weight difference, my SS weighs 3340lbs with me in it (I'm skinny) & I can't see an Outback weighing 38-3900lbs.

Some of these engines are drive by wire / "chip keyed" make sure you get everything you'll need to swap it in if you get one.

I spec sheet online. I won't quote the exact weight, but it was somewhere around 3700lbs. I assume this to be a dry weight.

As for the key I believe your correct. This would be a complete swap with wire harness.

Thanks for including your SS weight *BONUS*. I was estimating mine at 3200 lbs with me in it. I think I can use your number pretty reliably...I'm skinny as well.

As for the mileage I am getting 25MPG with my EJ22T at around IIRC 160 CHP. I would much rather have a reliable 212 HP at 27-30MPG.

Where the rubber hits the road is weighing the value of my EJ22T and old tranny on the subaru market vs. the price I'll have to pay for the H6 swap.

Plus I LOVE NA power.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:12 pm

You also probably have about the same cd, but with smaller frontal area so you should do better in that regard as well. If you're concerned about mileage, get the tallest ratio you can which would be easier since you'd keep your 3.9.

Murphy · Post by **Murphy** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:26 pm

ive heard people are having problems with the immobilizer in the EZ30R ECUs
i think it was nabisco i was reading up on it a while back, i believe they just used a new standalone instead

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:29 pm

Actually right now I'm running an old 5sp from a NA wagon with 4.111 final. It seems to be holding up nicely with the EJ22T. I'm not sure I would attempt pushing the 212HP from the H6 though. I have a feeling I would break something pretty quickly.

I haven't done much research with the WRX 5sp but I think there is a 3.90 version isn't there?

The ultimate dream is the 6sp w/ DCCD, but I don't have that kind of money just yet.

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:32 pm

Murphy, thats good to know.

I am going to talk to a few of the local shops to see if I can find FSM info on the inhibitor. I might be able to put some of my engineering skills and my jobs test lab into figuring out the complexities of the inhibitor. Might be a good project while the old legacy sits in winter storage.

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:34 pm

IIRC there are two versions of the 3.0 H6 correct?

The EZ30 and the EZ30R that Dan and Murphy mention above. Anyone know where each of the two engines were used?

I see a few 01 LL Beans. I'm pretty sure thats the EZ30.

Post by **DLC** » Fri May 30, 2008 11:13 pm

turboleg is correct, the 01 LL Bean is NOT an EZ30R.

It's the basic EZ30, single port heads, 212BHP and not drive-by-wire.

The EZ30R was introduced first in the 05 Legacy models, to the best of my knowledge.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Sat May 31, 2008 1:24 am

IIRC the EZ30 is has the same feature as the EJ series where you can remove pistons and such without cracking the block in half where the EZ30R requires the block to be separated to remove them.

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Sat May 31, 2008 2:24 am

The H6 makes 214hp but at 6000rpms.

The EJ22T makes 160hp at like 3600rpms.

Also torque is 181ft-lbs at only 2800rpms

Then again the H6

# 210 lb.-ft. of peak torque @ 4,400 rpm
# 174 lb.-ft of torque @ 2,200 rpm

I am sure a intercooler could get you closer to the 200hp and still get over 20mpg.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat May 31, 2008 2:44 am

Over 20mpg? Have you seen gas recently? My brother-in-law's Colorado gets 23 and he's ditching it. Truthfully, all cars today have abysmal mileage. It's all the safety gear to satisfy the pansies.

Then again, how much would an H6 swap cost and how long would that take to make up in gas savings? I'm going with an EJ22 over an EE20 in my project vehicle as the projected instal cost differences took 660k miles (55mpg vs. 85mpg @ current gas prices) to make up and figuring biodiesel mfg was still too much.

Arctic Assassian · Post by **Arctic Assassian** » Sat May 31, 2008 10:43 pm

I'll tell you from experiance that the h6 outbacks got better real world mileage than the N/A four cylinders due to more availble power to get you to cruising speed. I would assume that you would have better MPG witha 3.90 rather than the 4.11, due to a lower cruising rpm.
Our dealership has the last brand new EG33 on the shelf, (that I know of) and I won't let my boss get rid of it because I am going to build a boost monster with it in a year or so. I say go for it.

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:34 pm

Arctic,
I agree with you on the real world gas mileage. I always seem to get better than rated fuel mileage out of my subarus. Every subaru that I have owned has gotten 2-3 mpg better than rated. I am not extremely nice to the gas pedal either.

Evolutionmovement,
I have seen a few ppl posting on here talking about 50-80 mpg. If you don't mind me asking, how are you guys getting that high? Sorry for my lack of knowledge on this subject. I have spent the last 10 years learning ways of making millions of horse power

Only recently with rising gas prices have I found it entertaining to get higher MPGs.

Thanks!

internetautomart · Post by **internetautomart** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:00 pm

to go faster (or for better MPG) Add lightness!

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:12 pm

Reducing weight gives me an extra 40 mpg?

Arctic Assassian · Post by **Arctic Assassian** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:07 pm

50-80 seems rediculous with our motor technology.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:53 pm

50 is with an EJ22 mounted into a Cessna 152 fuselage with a single rear wheel and two outrigger fronts running a 2.83 FD. By figuring out the errors in the common math for mpg calcs, I'm easily into the 50's. 80's is with the diesel. That's highway speed. I'm over 100 mpg with the diesel at around 30 mph. This is what I'm building.

Aerodynamics and less weight require less power to move, less fuel, less accessories (no power steering, less water pump use when installation circumstances allow an electric pump). You can't get that from dinosaur cars with marketing lead aerodynamically inefficient styling and weight from all the safety crap for all the pussies out there that had the government mandate it. To drive anything intelligent nowadays, you'll have to build your own car unless you live in CA, where you might be able to buy an Aptera if that turns out to be for real.

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:20 am

Evolution,
Sounds like a fun project. Cessnas are pretty easy to find around here. There are a lot of little airports that are rarely used anymore. I laughed my ass off when I read the comment about the safety crap...you sound an awful lot like me.

Although NY likes to follow the lead of Cali, custom built cars are not required to meet any type of emmissions standards. So there's a plus for me.

Thanks guys!

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:04 am

Dead Cessnas? I'm looking for just a fuselage (and doors), no nose, stabilizers, wings, and no certification (so it's only good to a whack-o like me as it will likely never fly again). Let me know if you see any cheap. I missed one in MI on ebay for $100. I was quite pissed, but at least heartened that it went so cheap. The Prowler front suspension will cost me the most. I hope.

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:46 am

It's been a while but I had a friend that was a beginner pilot. He flew nothing but cessnas. It sounded as if he was in really tight with the mechanics at the local air field. I'll see if I can drop him a line. He might be able to find something more immediate.

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:15 am

I sent an email out this morning. If he gets back to me I will let you know.

Hopefully all of the Cessnas that I saw when I was at the airport bone yard are still there. I fear high scrap values are going to kill every dead and dormant car and plane. It's unfortunate, but people have been going crazy for scrap lately. I just heard on the news the other night that a church carnaval had been raided for all of the high current capacity copper wire. Someones going to hell.

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H6 swap - anyone have a feel for the fuel mileage?

H6 swap - anyone have a feel for the fuel mileage?