Yet another head question please

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:51 pm

I would probably use 1/2" for the oil return. You don't want oil backing up in the turbo.

The coolant return on the stock system goes to the expansion tank. But yeah you should be able to run the coolant return to the heater hose. My only concern with that would be the pressure coming out of the turbo vs the pressure in the heater hose so coolant flows through the turbo readily. If you hook up the turbo coolant return after the heater core that'd probably be fine.

iluvdrt · Post by **iluvdrt** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:39 am

As far as determining where the buckets go on which valve, do I just treat this like a tiedious valve job?

And will the rocker style t-belt tensioner work on the ej 22t block?(I dont think it will)

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:43 am

Did you take out all the buckets without marking where they were from? If so you'll need to check each one to make sure your valve lash is correct. Otherwise you can burn up valves or a shim can pop out and tear everything up.

Yes the tensioner works with the 22T block. It should bolt the the little bracket/plate that goes behind it.

iluvdrt · Post by **iluvdrt** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:50 am

93forestpearl wrote:Did you take out all the buckets without marking where they were from? If so you'll need to check each one to make sure your valve lash is correct. Otherwise you can burn up valves or a shim can pop out and tear everything up.

Yes the tensioner works with the 22T block. It should bolt the the little bracket/plate that goes behind it.

No, they came that way in a box from a salvage yard. The shims are just 1 big shim that "clips" in the bucket. I guess we will just have to take some time, assembling and disassembling the top end to perform a valve adj....darn it.

Cool, that will save a lot of $$ those things are pricey. (tensioners)

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:37 pm

Yeah, it is a pain the re-adjust the valves, but its necessary.

I'm actually debating going to shimless buckets on mine. I want to, but it will run me about $300 for a full set of shimless buckets.

iluvdrt · Post by **iluvdrt** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:50 pm

What are those from? an STi??

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:46 pm

They are from the '04 and newer WRX and what not. My price is about $17-18 each. So times 16 is kinda spendy. Its worth it though if you ever plan on using launch control or anything that can introduce big missfires and a little float, which can cause the shim to pop out and tear things up.

dropdfocus · Post by **dropdfocus** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:50 pm

Do they have different thicknesses to order from since they are shimless?

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:11 pm

Yup. You can use a micrometer to measure the total thickness of the shim and bucket, then order a matching shimless bucket. It may be a good idea to measure the valve lash to accomodate for any wear, since you are spending the money on buckets.

dropdfocus · Post by **dropdfocus** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:28 pm

Is $17-18 a standard going price for the shimless buckets? Are the offered anywhere other than through the Subaru Parts Dept.?

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:38 pm

I haven't really looked around to see if anyone else makes them.

You could hunt around on the forums and find people with extras laying around.

$17-18 is the rate you get if you know someone at a shop, or if you have a discount somehow like I do through a club or something. We started our little MNSOC(Minnesota Subi Owners Club) and get a discount.

dropdfocus · Post by **dropdfocus** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:52 pm

The only reason I ask is because this would be a good addition to my parts list for my winter motor build. Having a good solid valve train would make me feel a bit safer at high revs.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:19 pm

Same thought process going on here. I'd like to rap it out to 7k or 7500, but the shim-over-buckets make me nervous.

dropdfocus · Post by **dropdfocus** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:23 pm

I'll have a strong bottom end (balanced & blue printed) so making sure the top end is up to par would be a very good thing. I love the fact that Subaru parts are so damn interchangable!

It makes this high HP build stuff much easier...

iluvdrt · Post by **iluvdrt** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:19 am

My Legacy sees the rev limiter often when I am auto-xing and my shims havnt fallen out.

Couldnt you secure them in there with a strong epoxy, or solder?

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:08 am

Neither would hold up to the abuse, and stay stuck to the bucket itself in that kind of environment.

I actually though about tacking the shims on with the TIG welder, but I decided against it because that would mess up the heat treatment and nitriding of the material. That and getting the shim to sit perfectly flat on the bucket is pretty much impossible. You could clamp it, but you will end up with stresses between the two and the weld would most likely crack.

I'm probably just going to put this set of heads on as is since they have less than 60k on them. I just won't use launch control or antilag.

iluvdrt · Post by **iluvdrt** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:27 pm

Well the new style tensioner does not fit on the EJ22T block. Any ideas as to what can be done about this? I am guessing I have to get the plate that bolts to the block intended for the new style tensioner.

I also installed the shims for the cams, they are a little tight, but should be OK I hope.

I also need a coolant flow chart for the EJ22T if anyone has one (no, the cornell university diagrams dont work, I found those searching). We need to re-route the lines because we are relocating the coolant expansion tank. I also have no idea where how to hook up the turbo lines because I didnt tap into the heads (I didnt feel comfy doing this).

Thanks.

iluvdrt · Post by **iluvdrt** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:32 pm

Also, does the stock boost control solnoid need to be hooked up anywhere? I dont know what any of that stuff is around that thing (boost control)

dropdfocus · Post by **dropdfocus** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:33 pm

I can post up Vikash's images that were linked on the Cornell University site some time tonight.

iluvdrt · Post by **iluvdrt** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:20 pm

None all of the Cornell links work anymore, unless you saved the image and use something else to host it.

dropdfocus · Post by **dropdfocus** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:29 pm

I did just that. I knew this day would come so I took it upon myself to save them to rehost.

iluvdrt · Post by **iluvdrt** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:10 am

Awesome, Your the man, LOL.

I too find myself doing things like that.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:22 am

93forestpearl wrote:Well, the '96 25D heads used HLA's, which aren't the best for going over the stock redline.

bullshit! There were a number of JDM engines from the factory that used that shim design and had a 7200rpm redline in stock form. A stock Ej22T has a 6500 rpm redline and with the turbos that have been discussed in this thread there's not a single one of them that will be worth a damn on an Ej22 above 7000rpm anyway!!!

Furthermore, you cannot just plop the 03+ shimless buckets into an old set of Ej25D heads. They aren't the same size. All of the phase II buckets are different than the phase I buckets found in the Ej20G, Ej20D, Ej20H, EJ20K and Ej25D series of engines.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:57 am

Matt Monson wrote:bullshit! There were a number of JDM engines from the factory that used that shim design and had a 7200rpm redline in stock form. A stock Ej22T has a 6500 rpm redline and with the turbos that have been discussed in this thread there's not a single one of them that will be worth a damn on an Ej22 above 7000rpm anyway!!!

I was talking about USDM motors, which are readily available for cheap. JDM stuff can be a much different ballgame.

Again, I'm not talking about redline capability, but more of higher abuse, like launch control and antilag, both of which contribute to serious misfires and possible valve float, which enable the shim-over-buckets to pop out and wreak havoc. It has nothing to do with redline.

I've been running a turbo more than capable of flowing air over the stock redline, and yet theHLA's still seem to be a bottleneck. My fuel map is butter smooth at and over 6500rpm, actually it tapers off, and yet the afr's still tank down to rich as hell. This tells me there is a problem with the HLA's maintaining valve lift over 6500rpm. It's not a smooth run down to rich. It's rather abrupt. Like a negative exponential.

Furthermore, you cannot just plop the 03+ shimless buckets into an old set of Ej25D heads. They aren't the same size. All of the phase II buckets are different than the phase I buckets found in the Ej20G, Ej20D, Ej20H, EJ20K and Ej25D series of engines.

I'm going off a friend who is a very experienced hotrod subaru engine builder. He may be wrong, and me too. If you give me an exterior dimension of a shimless bucket I can tell you on friday if they are the same. Matt(Bikerboy) says they are the same, and looking from the castings, they are. My '98 25D heads look exactly the same externally as any other modern DOHC Subaru head, aside from the camshaft thrust design. Internally they are different. Cripes, the ports on my 25D's make those of WRX heads look small.

Anyways, if you have a decent caliper and can give me an external dimention, we can get to the bottom of this.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:50 pm

Are you kidding me?

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Yet another head question please