CEL Doesn't Work.

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:50 am

I tried to run the "D-check" diagnostics today on my car. I warmed it up, turned it off, plugged the green connectors together, turned ignition on, and instead of the CEL flashing on, I kept hearing this relay sounding click from down by the ECU. And, even though I've been having some engine problems, I haven't seen a CEL since I've owned the car.

I want to pull the codes from my ECU, but if the CEL won't come on, i'm SOL.

Somebody reccommended checking the bulb. How does one go about checking this bulb?

Ideas?

tahiti350 · Post by **tahiti350** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:33 am

to change the bulb you'll probably have to pull the instument cluster. there is no way to reach up from behind to get it that I have found.

94SS_Canada · Post by **94SS_Canada** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:03 am

If your not into pulling the whole Cluster, hook up an external bulb. Find the wright ECU pin and ground and you should be good to go.

glennda5id · Post by **glennda5id** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:10 pm

You need to connect the black connectors. Not the green ones.

smh0101 · Post by **smh0101** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:13 pm

glennda5id wrote:You need to connect the black connectors. Not the green ones.

Exactly

asc_up · Post by **asc_up** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:05 pm

smh0101 wrote:
glennda5id wrote:You need to connect the black connectors. Not the green ones.
Exactly

He said he was trying to use the D-check mode, which is what you use the green connectors for. That way you can see codes that are being thrown, even though they don't usually throw a CEL.

n2x4 · Post by **n2x4** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:30 pm

asc_up wrote:

He said he was trying to use the D-check mode, which is what you use the green connectors for. That way you can see codes that are being thrown, even though they don't usually throw a CEL.

Exactly.

glennda5id · Post by **glennda5id** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:33 pm

If you are in D-Check mode it won't throw the codes unless you are driving the car. He needs to connect the black connectors.

asc_up · Post by **asc_up** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:08 pm

glennda5id wrote:If you are in D-Check mode it won't throw the codes unless you are driving the car. He needs to connect the black connectors.

Yeah I know that.

Anyways, in D-check mode it activates and deactivates a few relays in your car so that's the clicking noise you're hearing. No worries there. Just replace your bulb and then check your CEL using the black connectors or do the D-check mode. Your choice.

bmxkelowna · Post by **bmxkelowna** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:52 pm

does the cel turn on with the key in the on position?

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:07 am

glennda5id wrote:If you are in D-Check mode it won't throw the codes unless you are driving the car. He needs to connect the black connectors.

I actually wasn't running the D-check to get codes, I was just trying to see if my CEL worked. This is based on the following information about test modes (which is found both on legacy central and surrealmirage):

"Start with both connectors disconnected, start the engine, allow it to warm up, then turn it off. Next, connect the test mode connectors (green T-shape). Turn ignition to ON position without turning on engine. At this point if the check engine light does not come on, it is faulty and must be fixed before continuing."

Yeah, that last part is what I was going for. Just testing to see if the CEL is faulty. (which it seems to be)

Anyways, no the CEL doesn't come on when I turn the key on. But if those relays were supposed to be clicking in D-check mode and don't indicate an electrical problem, then my next guess would be the bulb. I could use the external bulb idea for the time being, just to pull the codes, but I would just rather fix the problem all together, so that if I'm driving and another problem occurs and throws a CEL, I will know right away from the proper CEL.

So if anybody knows the easiest way to replace that particular bulb, please throw some info my way.

Thank you everybody for the help!

asc_up · Post by **asc_up** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:04 am

Ok. Yeah you have a bad bulb if the CEL doesn't come on with the key in the "ON" position (not started).

The only way to replace it is to remove the cluster, which isn't super fun. You have to remove the whole trim piece around it (the big black thing that has the vents on it and the HVAC controls).

It's not hard, just tedious and time consuming if all you want to do is replace a bulb. That said, it is worth it if you're replacing the CEL bulb, because that is somewhat important.

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:16 pm

OK Cool, thanks. I was just reading in the ol Chiltons about how to take the cluster out. Sounds like you're right, not hard just tedious. I'll replace the bulb and post results. Thanks!

glennda5id · Post by **glennda5id** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:49 pm

To test the bulb, forget connecting the green or black wires. Just turn the ignition to on without starting the car. The light should come on.

You have never seen the light come on. Did you buy the vehicle used? If so, the previous owner probably removed it to pass an emissions test.

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:46 am

Nope, it's never come on. I bet you're right about the emissions test, they're pretty strict here in Utah. If that's the case, I wonder if they went to the trouble to actually remove the bulb or if they just clipped a wire somewhere. Or are there any places under the dash where the CEL wire has a connector that can be disconnected? Maybe they just yanked the wire out of the ECU. I'll have to do some more contorting and peek up under the dash some more. Should probably do that before I remove the cluster to change the bulb; might save me some time.

glennda5id · Post by **glennda5id** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:24 pm

I'm sure they removed the bulb. Clipping a wire would require knowledge of the pin outs and wiring diagrams to the ECU. If they were that technically inclined, they would probably have fixed the problem, rather then try to mask it.

Be careful when removing the dash, my father pulled this stunt (removing bulb) on their subaru without telling me. Somehow he damaged the coolant temp gauge. I think those gauges are delicate.

I was annoyed, because after it failed the sniff test, he calls me to check it out I had to reinstall the bulb so I could read the codes.

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:34 pm

FIXED!

Ok so I ripped the dash out, pulled the bulb, and sure enough it was blown. Replaced it and now my CEL is officially working again! Pulled the codes from the ECU, and I only got 1. Code 13- Camshaft Position Sensor. I just wish they weren't so spendy. But yeah, the old cam sensor is all rusty and corroded. Just glad I only got 1 code! Next, I'm gonna run the D-check and see what other problems I might have been missing.

Thanks for the help everybody!!

glennda5id · Post by **glennda5id** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:05 pm

Car won't run without the CAM sensor. If you car does run, then i would go through the procedure to reset the codes. Then only replace the sensor if the code comes back.

asc_up · Post by **asc_up** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:08 pm

glennda5id wrote:Car won't run without the CAM sensor. If you car does run, then i would go through the procedure to reset the codes. Then only replace the sensor if the code comes back.

+1

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CEL Doesn't Work.

CEL Doesn't Work.

FIXED!!!