Hi all. Hope someone can assist in the diagnosis of this issue.
Target Vehicle:
1993 Subaru Legacy LS AWD Wagon
I have been having the following problem with my brakes.
_____
Part A- Description of the problem - Mostly I'm concerned about the mush
pedal
A) my brake pedal seems quite mushy. BUT, if I quickly pump once, then
pump again and hold, it engages much higher and is as firm as ever. What
gives batman? Is this a bad vacuum booster? A bad master cylinder?
B) sometimes, when I apply the brake at a slow-normal speed (and DON'T do
the double-pump thing) in a gradual stopping situation (where my foot goes
unusually close to the floor), during the last 20 feet or so I hear a faint
grinding noise. I kind of figure the grinding noise is a brake shoe
wearking low, but it only occasionally makes the noise (usually after
braking a lot- Pittsburgh is all hills). I'm going to pull the wheel to
check, but if you have anything to add, lemme know.
C) Just this morning, and I don't know if it is related or not, I started
the car and drove around and there was a faint 'beep/buzzing' sound from
what might have been behind the dashboard. It sounded like it was some
type of electronic buzzing. No idiot lights were on and there were no
other problems.
_____
Part B- what I have done /checked:
There is adequate fliud in the reservoir (right below -max-) and the
fluid looks clear.
I bled the front brakes a good bit (maybe 1/2 the total volume) but no
bubbles came out. Some kind of K-Y jellish looking spooge did come out
when I checked the catch tube from the front right line.
When I checked the fluid reservoir, the weird black rubber boot that
usually is recessed in the brake reservoir cap was 3/4 sucked out of its
recessed position and had apparently been sitting in fluid at some point.
The front pads (where the sound is coming from) are fine, though the
anti-squeal shims are not centered correctly on the pads. I don't think
this is the problem though, as there is nowhere for them to touch anything
rotating.
All assistance is appreciated!
Thanks,
Chris
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Advice on brake problem...
Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators
-
Josh Colombo
Advice on brake problem...
Hey Chris,
From what you've described, it really sounds like you have air in the brakes, and they need to be bled.
I had a similar problem after I painted my calipers, I had the lines off, and even after initial bleading they were mushy.
There is a specific sequence you need to do when bleading the brakes. I don't know it off hand, I'm at work, I will post when I get home, if you don't have it. You need to do all four wheels, not just the front, or rear. The way the braking system is setup, opposite corners are on the same "channel" So if one fails, the other still works.
Other thing to make note of is your bleading procedure. For very stubborn brake bleading problems. What you'll have to do is get two people, have one person just pump the brakes really hard like 20 times, hold it, then have the other open the blead screw on the caliper, and then close it when the pedal goes to the floor. I normally get a piece of clear tubing run put it in a bottle and put a little brake fluid in the bottom so the line doesn't suck any air back in. I would suggest doing the 20 brake pump thing at least twice per wheel. When you get all the way done...maybe go around one more time. After that...drive the car, if it feels fine, problem is solved. If it's still mushy, drive the car for a couple days and repeat the process. That was the ONLY way I was able to fix my mushy brake problem after doing my calipers.
The grinding noise, or just excess brake noise is probably ok. My front pads make a little excess weird noise. If the pad has enough material on it....it should be fine. I personally don't use the shims.....I got more squealing with the shims on then when I just put the orange no squeal stuff directly on the back of the pads.
The little black rubber thing in the master cylinder is supposed to expand down as fluid level drops a tad or even pushing on the pedal.
Got any more questions, just holler.
Josh
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Chirdon [mailto:chirdon+@pitt.edu]
Sent: Mon 3/25/2002 105 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on brake problem...
Hi all. Hope someone can assist in the diagnosis of this issue.
Target Vehicle:
1993 Subaru Legacy LS AWD Wagon
I have been having the following problem with my brakes.
_____
Part A- Description of the problem - Mostly I'm concerned about the mush
pedal
A) my brake pedal seems quite mushy. BUT, if I quickly pump once, then
pump again and hold, it engages much higher and is as firm as ever. What
gives batman? Is this a bad vacuum booster? A bad master cylinder?
B) sometimes, when I apply the brake at a slow-normal speed (and DON'T do
the double-pump thing) in a gradual stopping situation (where my foot goes
unusually close to the floor), during the last 20 feet or so I hear a faint
grinding noise. I kind of figure the grinding noise is a brake shoe
wearking low, but it only occasionally makes the noise (usually after
braking a lot- Pittsburgh is all hills). I'm going to pull the wheel to
check, but if you have anything to add, lemme know.
C) Just this morning, and I don't know if it is related or not, I started
the car and drove around and there was a faint 'beep/buzzing' sound from
what might have been behind the dashboard. It sounded like it was some
type of electronic buzzing. No idiot lights were on and there were no
other problems.
_____
Part B- what I have done /checked:
There is adequate fliud in the reservoir (right below -max-) and the
fluid looks clear.
I bled the front brakes a good bit (maybe 1/2 the total volume) but no
bubbles came out. Some kind of K-Y jellish looking spooge did come out
when I checked the catch tube from the front right line.
When I checked the fluid reservoir, the weird black rubber boot that
usually is recessed in the brake reservoir cap was 3/4 sucked out of its
recessed position and had apparently been sitting in fluid at some point.
The front pads (where the sound is coming from) are fine, though the
anti-squeal shims are not centered correctly on the pads. I don't think
this is the problem though, as there is nowhere for them to touch anything
rotating.
All assistance is appreciated!
Thanks,
Chris
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From what you've described, it really sounds like you have air in the brakes, and they need to be bled.
I had a similar problem after I painted my calipers, I had the lines off, and even after initial bleading they were mushy.
There is a specific sequence you need to do when bleading the brakes. I don't know it off hand, I'm at work, I will post when I get home, if you don't have it. You need to do all four wheels, not just the front, or rear. The way the braking system is setup, opposite corners are on the same "channel" So if one fails, the other still works.
Other thing to make note of is your bleading procedure. For very stubborn brake bleading problems. What you'll have to do is get two people, have one person just pump the brakes really hard like 20 times, hold it, then have the other open the blead screw on the caliper, and then close it when the pedal goes to the floor. I normally get a piece of clear tubing run put it in a bottle and put a little brake fluid in the bottom so the line doesn't suck any air back in. I would suggest doing the 20 brake pump thing at least twice per wheel. When you get all the way done...maybe go around one more time. After that...drive the car, if it feels fine, problem is solved. If it's still mushy, drive the car for a couple days and repeat the process. That was the ONLY way I was able to fix my mushy brake problem after doing my calipers.
The grinding noise, or just excess brake noise is probably ok. My front pads make a little excess weird noise. If the pad has enough material on it....it should be fine. I personally don't use the shims.....I got more squealing with the shims on then when I just put the orange no squeal stuff directly on the back of the pads.
The little black rubber thing in the master cylinder is supposed to expand down as fluid level drops a tad or even pushing on the pedal.
Got any more questions, just holler.
Josh
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Chirdon [mailto:chirdon+@pitt.edu]
Sent: Mon 3/25/2002 105 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on brake problem...
Hi all. Hope someone can assist in the diagnosis of this issue.
Target Vehicle:
1993 Subaru Legacy LS AWD Wagon
I have been having the following problem with my brakes.
_____
Part A- Description of the problem - Mostly I'm concerned about the mush
pedal
A) my brake pedal seems quite mushy. BUT, if I quickly pump once, then
pump again and hold, it engages much higher and is as firm as ever. What
gives batman? Is this a bad vacuum booster? A bad master cylinder?
B) sometimes, when I apply the brake at a slow-normal speed (and DON'T do
the double-pump thing) in a gradual stopping situation (where my foot goes
unusually close to the floor), during the last 20 feet or so I hear a faint
grinding noise. I kind of figure the grinding noise is a brake shoe
wearking low, but it only occasionally makes the noise (usually after
braking a lot- Pittsburgh is all hills). I'm going to pull the wheel to
check, but if you have anything to add, lemme know.
C) Just this morning, and I don't know if it is related or not, I started
the car and drove around and there was a faint 'beep/buzzing' sound from
what might have been behind the dashboard. It sounded like it was some
type of electronic buzzing. No idiot lights were on and there were no
other problems.
_____
Part B- what I have done /checked:
There is adequate fliud in the reservoir (right below -max-) and the
fluid looks clear.
I bled the front brakes a good bit (maybe 1/2 the total volume) but no
bubbles came out. Some kind of K-Y jellish looking spooge did come out
when I checked the catch tube from the front right line.
When I checked the fluid reservoir, the weird black rubber boot that
usually is recessed in the brake reservoir cap was 3/4 sucked out of its
recessed position and had apparently been sitting in fluid at some point.
The front pads (where the sound is coming from) are fine, though the
anti-squeal shims are not centered correctly on the pads. I don't think
this is the problem though, as there is nowhere for them to touch anything
rotating.
All assistance is appreciated!
Thanks,
Chris
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-
jason grahn
Advice on brake problem...
Bleed your brakes completely. Start with the passenger rear, then driver
rear, then passenger front, driver front brake is last.
If you have a gold or yellowish brake fluid in there now, you might want to
use ATE Super Blue brake fluid. Since the fluid is blue, you'll know when
the line has been completely bled.
-Jason
>From: Chris Chirdon <chirdon+@pitt.edu>
>
>Hi all. Hope someone can assist in the diagnosis of this issue.
>
>Target Vehicle:
>1993 Subaru Legacy LS AWD Wagon
>
>I have been having the following problem with my brakes.
>_____
<<SNIP>>
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rear, then passenger front, driver front brake is last.
If you have a gold or yellowish brake fluid in there now, you might want to
use ATE Super Blue brake fluid. Since the fluid is blue, you'll know when
the line has been completely bled.
-Jason
>From: Chris Chirdon <chirdon+@pitt.edu>
>
>Hi all. Hope someone can assist in the diagnosis of this issue.
>
>Target Vehicle:
>1993 Subaru Legacy LS AWD Wagon
>
>I have been having the following problem with my brakes.
>_____
<<SNIP>>
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-
Josh Colombo
Advice on brake problem...
Jason,
You want to work from the wheel that is the closest to the master cylinder for that particular "channel" and then do the one that is furthest away. The Chilton's manual says the same thing. I believe it is drivers front, then passenger rear, then passenger front, then driver's rear. I will double check this when I get home, but pretty sure this is correct.
Josh
-----Original Message-----
From: jason grahn [mailto:jgrahn555@hotmail.com]
Sent: Mon 3/25/2002 11:43 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on brake problem...
Bleed your brakes completely. Start with the passenger rear, then driver
rear, then passenger front, driver front brake is last.
If you have a gold or yellowish brake fluid in there now, you might want to
use ATE Super Blue brake fluid. Since the fluid is blue, you'll know when
the line has been completely bled.
-Jason
>From: Chris Chirdon <chirdon+@pitt.edu>
>
>Hi all. Hope someone can assist in the diagnosis of this issue.
>
>Target Vehicle:
>1993 Subaru Legacy LS AWD Wagon
>
>I have been having the following problem with my brakes.
>_____
<<SNIP>>
_________________________________________________________________
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You want to work from the wheel that is the closest to the master cylinder for that particular "channel" and then do the one that is furthest away. The Chilton's manual says the same thing. I believe it is drivers front, then passenger rear, then passenger front, then driver's rear. I will double check this when I get home, but pretty sure this is correct.
Josh
-----Original Message-----
From: jason grahn [mailto:jgrahn555@hotmail.com]
Sent: Mon 3/25/2002 11:43 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on brake problem...
Bleed your brakes completely. Start with the passenger rear, then driver
rear, then passenger front, driver front brake is last.
If you have a gold or yellowish brake fluid in there now, you might want to
use ATE Super Blue brake fluid. Since the fluid is blue, you'll know when
the line has been completely bled.
-Jason
>From: Chris Chirdon <chirdon+@pitt.edu>
>
>Hi all. Hope someone can assist in the diagnosis of this issue.
>
>Target Vehicle:
>1993 Subaru Legacy LS AWD Wagon
>
>I have been having the following problem with my brakes.
>_____
<<SNIP>>
_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.hotmail.com
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Josh Colombo
Advice on brake problem...
Here is the procedure
Front Right
Rear Left
Front Left
Rear Right
The secondary cylinder is connected to the front right and rear left. The primary cylinder is connected to the front left and rear right. I guess you want to start with the secondary cylinder first, and like I said earlier you want to do the wheel that is closer to the brake cylinders.
Josh
************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com **NEW**
"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Colombo
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 12:48 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on brake problem...
Jason,
You want to work from the wheel that is the closest to the master cylinder for that particular "channel" and then do the one that is furthest away. The Chilton's manual says the same thing. I believe it is drivers front, then passenger rear, then passenger front, then driver's rear. I will double check this when I get home, but pretty sure this is correct.
Josh
-----Original Message-----
From: jason grahn [mailto:jgrahn555@hotmail.com]
Sent: Mon 3/25/2002 11:43 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on brake problem...
Bleed your brakes completely. Start with the passenger rear, then driver
rear, then passenger front, driver front brake is last.
If you have a gold or yellowish brake fluid in there now, you might want to
use ATE Super Blue brake fluid. Since the fluid is blue, you'll know when
the line has been completely bled.
-Jason
>From: Chris Chirdon <chirdon+@pitt.edu>
>
>Hi all. Hope someone can assist in the diagnosis of this issue.
>
>Target Vehicle:
>1993 Subaru Legacy LS AWD Wagon
>
>I have been having the following problem with my brakes.
>_____
<<SNIP>>
_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.hotmail.com
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Front Right
Rear Left
Front Left
Rear Right
The secondary cylinder is connected to the front right and rear left. The primary cylinder is connected to the front left and rear right. I guess you want to start with the secondary cylinder first, and like I said earlier you want to do the wheel that is closer to the brake cylinders.
Josh
************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com **NEW**
"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Colombo
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 12:48 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on brake problem...
Jason,
You want to work from the wheel that is the closest to the master cylinder for that particular "channel" and then do the one that is furthest away. The Chilton's manual says the same thing. I believe it is drivers front, then passenger rear, then passenger front, then driver's rear. I will double check this when I get home, but pretty sure this is correct.
Josh
-----Original Message-----
From: jason grahn [mailto:jgrahn555@hotmail.com]
Sent: Mon 3/25/2002 11:43 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Advice on brake problem...
Bleed your brakes completely. Start with the passenger rear, then driver
rear, then passenger front, driver front brake is last.
If you have a gold or yellowish brake fluid in there now, you might want to
use ATE Super Blue brake fluid. Since the fluid is blue, you'll know when
the line has been completely bled.
-Jason
>From: Chris Chirdon <chirdon+@pitt.edu>
>
>Hi all. Hope someone can assist in the diagnosis of this issue.
>
>Target Vehicle:
>1993 Subaru Legacy LS AWD Wagon
>
>I have been having the following problem with my brakes.
>_____
<<SNIP>>
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
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