All-motor?

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 9:55 pm

I was sitting on my couch watching Speed Channel Touring, with the little Integras and Proteges and BMWs, and I started wondering if there was a way to make a fast all-motor car out of a BC-BF...

I have two options at the end of the year: 1) Go get one of those gorgeous new Impreza or Legacy Turbos and leave it alone, or 2) dump a crapload of money into my car...

Does STi make engine parts for NA EJ22's? Pistons, cranks, heads, I was thinkin put all that fancy stuff in there, maybe get about 11:1 compression, make some serious non-turbo numbers... I love turbo cars, but I also admire a fast all-motor car...

Think it can be done?

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 10:12 pm

Ill tell you my dream scenario.

First I have heard of a couple wrx ej20 with increased discplacement, even up to 2.4+liter.

I would get a used twin turbo ej20, they are supposed to have far greater turned internals.

I would increased the displacement on this engine. Convert it over to the single twin scroll turbo. Perhaps add a combination of both nitrous and propane injection.

With a good tuner helping you could have this engine at relativly low stress and still get well over 400 crank HP. Match this with a strengthened 4eat and modified TC and a lightened vehicle and it would fly.

Problem with modifying you current vehicle is little insurance coverage. Say you spend 10k on it. If some stupid hits it while parked on the street the insurance company gives you 2500.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 10:21 pm

Actually, the insurance wouldn't give me one red penny... Don't have comprehensive on my car

, I just don't think it's really worth it on a car of this vintage, even after someone hit me...

Not an auto fan, so whatever I would do would be with a good ole stickshift...

If I'd had $3k at the time, I would have bought that JDM B4 on Ebay, body a mess but 30k on factory EJ20TT...

I think I'll just stick to the beautiful new Subies comin out in 10 months time...

vypa · Post by **vypa** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 10:34 pm

take a look around on http://www.b-specusa.com

vypa · Post by **vypa** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 10:47 pm

while were kinda on the subject... would a stroker kit for an EJ22T work in the N/As?

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 2:10 am

400 hp is very attainable on a built EJ22T. Buddy is working on one right now.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 2:57 am

Sounds to me like the only way to do serious engine work is to forge pistons, conrods, etc. yourself...that's okay, my grandparents aren't giving me my inheritance just yet

...

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 3:29 am

Start here http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 1876873969

Legacy777: In my scenario the engine could pass smog, idle smooth and have the power band of a daily driver that could last 150k miles. You would still have room to improve.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:48 am

Ciper.....tell ya what......I'll have my buddy take ya for a ride when he gets his motor in and such. He lives around San Fran.

It's an EJ22T motor, been bored and stroked to 2.4 I believe. Peaco is doin the cams. valves, guides and such are titanium. not exactly sure on the internals, but I'm sure they're good. Runnin the stock 380cc injectors for now.....has the stage 3 turbo from forced air tech, intercooler, alcohol injection, borla headers, prob will eventually run a nitrous intercooler system to cool the intake charge more. Dis 2 igntion, the higher one where you can program timing vs. boost, not sure if he's decided on whether to do a unichip or smaller piggy back. Motor was designed to run 30 psi of boost....and make about 400 hp.

Shitty octane in that area, ie. nothing higher then 91 has sorta prohibited that. So he's possibly looking at a dual stage fuel system & running methanol once boost gets above 20 psi.

But for the time being....I think he's goin to just leave boost around 15-20 or so for 10,000 mi, until engine is broken in, and then he will have everything tuned and setup for the type of fuel delivery he decides on.

The motor is setup to be a torque motor, basically a pretty instantaneous & flat torque band all through the rev range.

The car is a 93 legacy wagon w/ 4EAT, upgraded torque converter from level 10, I think he's doin a TB boring too. It has the 3.90 ratio too.....

This will be one mean mofo when he's done.

Post by **DLC** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 11:01 pm

All-Motor is super nice, and i have more fun driving a 130hp RX-7 on the auto-x course than an AWD turbo car. I bet it's faster too, even stock.

That said, Cobb builds heads and short blocks for very high-revving and powerful all-motor applications. This page has info on their Stage 2 short block, which is their best N/A application: http://cobbtuning.com/impreza/engineblock2.html

Here's some details:

Our Stage 2 short block is built specifically for high-end Naturally Aspirated use. Engineered for high RPM racing applications, this short block incorporates many sophisticated features to allow for maximum power delivery without sacrificing reliability. All components are designed to maintain a delicate balance between weight, cost, and life cycle.

The Stage 2 Short Blocks consist of a carefully chosen set of components engineered to be used together. A must for any high revving engine are strong, lightweight components – and we take full advantage of the newest technologies available. Our Stage 2 Short Block features:

EJ25 Phase II Short Block (2.5L Displacement)
Ultra-Lightweight Billet 4340 Steel Connecting Rods
Custom Designed Lightweight High-Compression Forged Aluminum Pistons (11:1 CR)
Exotic Titanium Piston Pins
Anti-Friction Piston Skirt Coating
Ceramic Piston Crown Coating
NA Specific Piston Rings
Lightened Crankshaft (79mm Stroke)
Semi-Closed Deck modification
Computerized Balance of rotating assembly
8500 RPM Recommended Rev Limit

Nice...

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 11:42 pm

legacy777: an ej22 bored to 2.4 sounds good, I say to grab the ej20 twin turbo because they are common and have higher flowing heads out of the box.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 12:41 am

is there anything specific on the ej20tt motors that would limit there use in US cars if you swap to a single turbo setup?

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 2:16 am

Hmmmm... I like that Stage 2 motor... The EJ25 fits in our engine bay? I was gonna say it fits in the BG-BD models, but those could have been designed for EJ25 which means EJ22 would fit no problem...

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 3:27 am

From what I know the EJ25 is the same engine, just with a factory "bore/Stroke" kit. So no reason they wouldnt be interchangable.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 5:24 am

The EJ25 is just a bored-and-stroked EJ22? Didn't know that... Now, do I buy that motor for my car, or buy a new B4? Geez, the decisions we have to make in life...

But the other problem is how well my tranny, etc. would hold up under the new stress...

totech · Post by **totech** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 4:04 pm

Don't touch the EJ25 unless you like replacing head gaskets.

Even my 2000 blew one.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 4:08 pm

Even the Phase II's?

totech · Post by **totech** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 4:27 pm

Yep.

Mine was a phase 2 - there is a new gasket kit out - but, I am not holding my breath.

I guess that is why the new 2.5T has a new block

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:32 pm

I would think with this built motor that they would have put some better gaskets on there, but it doesn't make any mention of them...

That semi-closed deck modification sounds half-assed, unless it's the new EJ25 semi-cloed block w/out a turbo...

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:22 pm

for the millionth time!!!! the 2.5 in the sti is a completely different motor!!!

Probably about the only thing in common between the two is the displacement.....

You guys need to chill.....subaru....and sti....for that matter is not going to just take a 2.5 block....jimmy rig it.....and call it an sti.....You know how much they would loose in warranty work!!!

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:31 pm

We's talkin about the old EJ25 open-block, the built one CobbTuning has at the beginning of this topic, the stuff Dave pasted in, it says it has a semi-closed block mod, I was wondering if they had swiped the new block...

Don't worry, we know the two engines have sh!t in common and that this new one is a real beast...

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:36 am

subyluvr2212 wrote:We's talkin about the old EJ25 open-block, the built one CobbTuning has at the beginning of this topic, the stuff Dave pasted in, it says it has a semi-closed block mod, I was wondering if they had swiped the new block...

Don't worry, we know the two engines have sh!t in common and that this new one is a real beast...

My bad....didn't know you were talkin about the cobb one.......memory is goin in my old age

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All-motor?

All-motor?