The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 9:38 am

Aight Sam......you ready to hear the solution to your braking dillema.......thought so.

I too believe the braking system of the first gen legacies is a little lacking.....the main cause IMO is due to the small stock OEM wheel size. You can only fit so large of brakes in a smaller wheel. The newer subarus are better. I'm on my 3rd set of rotors for the front since I've got my car in 95.....one set was cross-drilled.

Some precursors to what I think is the best upgrade bang for your buck. Some info.

Not sure if you read my write-up about cross-drilled vs. slotted rotors, www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/brake.html It's worth the read.

Also, here is a link to a thread on i-club with links to tons of braking info

<http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855> http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855

Ok......now for the best bang for your buck braking upgrade.

I am assuming you have 16" wheels....or larger. That's pretty much what you need for this upgrade. Buy a set of used WRX calipers from someone off i-club who has upgraded their brakes to something larger. Sometimes you can get someone that upgraded everything and you might be able to get a decent set of rotors as well.

Here is what I'm doing for my current brake project.

Front WRX calipers $175
Rear turbo legacy calipers I think $150 or around there....not positive.
Slotted OEM WRX rotors $210
Slotted brembro rear turbo legacy rotors $200
Cryo treating all 4 rotors $100 (the place I used is in Puyallup, $25 a rotor www.onecryo.com )
Mintex 1155 pads front and rear ~$200 for front and rear
Goodridge SS lines $128
Motul 600 brake fluid (second highest wet boiling point temp brake fluid that is non-silicone based) like $12 a bottle.

So all said and done......I'm goin to be just a little over $1000 for all that stuff. I did get some deals on upgrade parts and such, but snagging braking parts from newer gen subies is the best bang for your buck. Other option some have been doin is snagging the rear brake setup from the H6 legacy wagon. The rears are 11.4" solid disc rotors.

I did a bit of research in the previous months on what to choose and why....pads were the ones I took the longest to choose. I have yet to put all this stuff on......I'm still slowly getting parts in. Plus I need to paint the calipers still.

If you want any more detailed info on reasons why I chose what I did. Let me know and I'll do my best to give you my reasoning and such.

Hope this helps.

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:28 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc: smartservice@aol.com; paul.brunson@attws.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long)

So, turns out I did have spark in my #1 cylinder... but my injector went south. $240 later, she's all fixed up. By the way, if you live in the Puget Sound (Washington state if anyone is wondering) and you are within reasonable distance to Lake Forest Park - Smart Service Subaru (www.smartservice4u.com) is the way to go, and they are MRT certified now. Thanks again Mike! <end plug>

But... I have a new, and much more interesting dilemma...

For some time now I've known that my driving style is incompatible with the standard brake system on the first gen Legacy. As if that wasn't bad enough, I drive a wagon (extra weight) and hence, I have never owned a legacy I haven't warped the rotors on.

AND to top that, it's time for new struts. YUMMY! (can you say DMS? Knew you could...)

Smart Service informed me my pads are looking thin (25% up front, 30% in the rear) and I ought to think about getting them "done".

I've been waiting for this day since I've owned the car.

I have a new set of wheels I'm ready to get mounted (off an outback), I have a tire picked out: Kumho Ecsta 712 (but I don't know what size I want, and yes, I know it's the same rubber Dave has). They're my front running choice because Dave's review was so favorable - however I'm open to other people's opinions(??). Otherwise I'm satisfied with being labeled a copy-cat. Sue me. And FINALLY I can upgrade my brake system - which is what this e-mail is all about: What should I get?

The rims will accept almost anything, including 4pots but I'm not sure if I want to go that far - but since I can't find an accurate price anywhere on the web; can someone tell me how much they cost? If you know the answer to that, hold on to it and keep reading...

Jason G. told me (BTW, thanks again Jason for the 411 and the rims) that the best brake you can put on the rear is the 90-94 vented discs off the turbos, then upgrade the pads. Bam! 1/2 of the car is figured out - right? Those are the biggest/best for the rear ever made correct? But the real issue is what should I balance them with up front...

Everyone I talk to tells me the 4 pots are expensive, but no one can quote me a price either. Those same people will tell me in the one breath how phenomenal they are too. So naturally, it makes you want to look into getting them...but....

I know for sure I don't want x-drilled OR slotted. I just don't drive that hard for extended periods of time to where I need to defend against the pad glazing over, etc... And, I drive a white car. I'm not real hyper about washing the car, but let's face it - no one likes to have a car that looks like it just drove through a brake dust tornado. It's not like there's a formula that says if you have 4pots you have to have slotted/x-drilled brakes... Well, just follow me through my next point with that in mind K? On we go...

So, then should I just get the biggest vented stock rotor made and just upgrade my pads? Or is there something between a 4 pot/larger, vented rotor and stock pots/larger vented rotor? (I'm assuming upgraded pads AND stainless lines on both setups are a given). AND most importantly, is it worth it? What's the bang-for-buck scale on the different choices? If I'm not on the tracks every month, or chasing Jason around in the mud (meaning: I'm an aggressive driver going to the grocery store), does that automatically mean I should forget about the 4 pots? One other question: what about balance? If I'm gripping proportionally much harder up front than in the back by adding a larger rotor and additional pressure (proportionally speaking), how will that change the handling characteristics under braking?

BTW, I've read a million posts about how brakes don't make a bit of difference until you've reached the grip limit of the tires etc. I'm hoping to avoid that flame war... I am putting new rubber on. I'm not squealing my rubber at every stop sign so what everyone says about 99% of the drivers are never crossing the grip limit of the whole system prolly applies to me too. So I'll say it's a valid part of the overall picture so maybe worth discussing on a limited basis...

Last component of this question: Pads. Too close to stock and they heat up too quickly, henceforth contributing to conditions that produce warped rotors. Too close to performance and they generate a lot of dust and can be dangerous when braking when cold because the performance pads are designed to operate best under frequent load, which generates heat... Or are pads like tires, you just have to go through a few of them to know what you like, and figure out what matches your driving style best?

Holler back!

-Sambo
'91Auto-Wagon, 2.2L with warped rotors...
(I love ellipses, can you tell?)

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
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To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 9:48 am

The link for the rotor comparison should be www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/brakes.html

************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Colombo
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 8:35 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

Aight Sam......you ready to hear the solution to your braking dillema.......thought so.

I too believe the braking system of the first gen legacies is a little lacking.....the main cause IMO is due to the small stock OEM wheel size. You can only fit so large of brakes in a smaller wheel. The newer subarus are better. I'm on my 3rd set of rotors for the front since I've got my car in 95.....one set was cross-drilled.

Some precursors to what I think is the best upgrade bang for your buck. Some info.

Not sure if you read my write-up about cross-drilled vs. slotted rotors, www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/brake.html It's worth the read.

Also, here is a link to a thread on i-club with links to tons of braking info

<http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855> http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855

Ok......now for the best bang for your buck braking upgrade.

I am assuming you have 16" wheels....or larger. That's pretty much what you need for this upgrade. Buy a set of used WRX calipers from someone off i-club who has upgraded their brakes to something larger. Sometimes you can get someone that upgraded everything and you might be able to get a decent set of rotors as well.

Here is what I'm doing for my current brake project.

Front WRX calipers $175
Rear turbo legacy calipers I think $150 or around there....not positive.
Slotted OEM WRX rotors $210
Slotted brembro rear turbo legacy rotors $200
Cryo treating all 4 rotors $100 (the place I used is in Puyallup, $25 a rotor www.onecryo.com )
Mintex 1155 pads front and rear ~$200 for front and rear
Goodridge SS lines $128
Motul 600 brake fluid (second highest wet boiling point temp brake fluid that is non-silicone based) like $12 a bottle.

So all said and done......I'm goin to be just a little over $1000 for all that stuff. I did get some deals on upgrade parts and such, but snagging braking parts from newer gen subies is the best bang for your buck. Other option some have been doin is snagging the rear brake setup from the H6 legacy wagon. The rears are 11.4" solid disc rotors.

I did a bit of research in the previous months on what to choose and why....pads were the ones I took the longest to choose. I have yet to put all this stuff on......I'm still slowly getting parts in. Plus I need to paint the calipers still.

If you want any more detailed info on reasons why I chose what I did. Let me know and I'll do my best to give you my reasoning and such.

Hope this helps.

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:28 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc: smartservice@aol.com; paul.brunson@attws.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long)

So, turns out I did have spark in my #1 cylinder... but my injector went south. $240 later, she's all fixed up. By the way, if you live in the Puget Sound (Washington state if anyone is wondering) and you are within reasonable distance to Lake Forest Park - Smart Service Subaru (www.smartservice4u.com) is the way to go, and they are MRT certified now. Thanks again Mike! <end plug>

But... I have a new, and much more interesting dilemma...

For some time now I've known that my driving style is incompatible with the standard brake system on the first gen Legacy. As if that wasn't bad enough, I drive a wagon (extra weight) and hence, I have never owned a legacy I haven't warped the rotors on.

AND to top that, it's time for new struts. YUMMY! (can you say DMS? Knew you could...)

Smart Service informed me my pads are looking thin (25% up front, 30% in the rear) and I ought to think about getting them "done".

I've been waiting for this day since I've owned the car.

I have a new set of wheels I'm ready to get mounted (off an outback), I have a tire picked out: Kumho Ecsta 712 (but I don't know what size I want, and yes, I know it's the same rubber Dave has). They're my front running choice because Dave's review was so favorable - however I'm open to other people's opinions(??). Otherwise I'm satisfied with being labeled a copy-cat. Sue me. And FINALLY I can upgrade my brake system - which is what this e-mail is all about: What should I get?

The rims will accept almost anything, including 4pots but I'm not sure if I want to go that far - but since I can't find an accurate price anywhere on the web; can someone tell me how much they cost? If you know the answer to that, hold on to it and keep reading...

Jason G. told me (BTW, thanks again Jason for the 411 and the rims) that the best brake you can put on the rear is the 90-94 vented discs off the turbos, then upgrade the pads. Bam! 1/2 of the car is figured out - right? Those are the biggest/best for the rear ever made correct? But the real issue is what should I balance them with up front...

Everyone I talk to tells me the 4 pots are expensive, but no one can quote me a price either. Those same people will tell me in the one breath how phenomenal they are too. So naturally, it makes you want to look into getting them...but....

I know for sure I don't want x-drilled OR slotted. I just don't drive that hard for extended periods of time to where I need to defend against the pad glazing over, etc... And, I drive a white car. I'm not real hyper about washing the car, but let's face it - no one likes to have a car that looks like it just drove through a brake dust tornado. It's not like there's a formula that says if you have 4pots you have to have slotted/x-drilled brakes... Well, just follow me through my next point with that in mind K? On we go...

So, then should I just get the biggest vented stock rotor made and just upgrade my pads? Or is there something between a 4 pot/larger, vented rotor and stock pots/larger vented rotor? (I'm assuming upgraded pads AND stainless lines on both setups are a given). AND most importantly, is it worth it? What's the bang-for-buck scale on the different choices? If I'm not on the tracks every month, or chasing Jason around in the mud (meaning: I'm an aggressive driver going to the grocery store), does that automatically mean I should forget about the 4 pots? One other question: what about balance? If I'm gripping proportionally much harder up front than in the back by adding a larger rotor and additional pressure (proportionally speaking), how will that change the handling characteristics under braking?

BTW, I've read a million posts about how brakes don't make a bit of difference until you've reached the grip limit of the tires etc. I'm hoping to avoid that flame war... I am putting new rubber on. I'm not squealing my rubber at every stop sign so what everyone says about 99% of the drivers are never crossing the grip limit of the whole system prolly applies to me too. So I'll say it's a valid part of the overall picture so maybe worth discussing on a limited basis...

Last component of this question: Pads. Too close to stock and they heat up too quickly, henceforth contributing to conditions that produce warped rotors. Too close to performance and they generate a lot of dust and can be dangerous when braking when cold because the performance pads are designed to operate best under frequent load, which generates heat... Or are pads like tires, you just have to go through a few of them to know what you like, and figure out what matches your driving style best?

Holler back!

-Sambo
'91Auto-Wagon, 2.2L with warped rotors...
(I love ellipses, can you tell?)

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Sam & Beth Barrett · Post by **Sam & Beth Barrett** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:01 am

Josh (et. al.),

Well after a long day of surfing and making some calls... I think you got this thing nailed my man. But I got one question for you. I have a buddy with slotted rotors. When he throws the brakes on, the machine vibrates on account of the slots - which in my opinion, jacks up the feel of the ride. Not a lot, but enough that the guy riding in the passenger seat is going to look at you and ask a stupid question.

Am I wrong? Do you get that vibe at all?

-Sambo

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Colombo [mailto:josh@surrealmirage.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:35 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

Aight Sam......you ready to hear the solution to your braking dillema.......thought so.

I too believe the braking system of the first gen legacies is a little lacking.....the main cause IMO is due to the small stock OEM wheel size. You can only fit so large of brakes in a smaller wheel. The newer subarus are better. I'm on my 3rd set of rotors for the front since I've got my car in 95.....one set was cross-drilled.

Some precursors to what I think is the best upgrade bang for your buck. Some info.

Not sure if you read my write-up about cross-drilled vs. slotted rotors, www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/brake.html It's worth the read.

Also, here is a link to a thread on i-club with links to tons of braking info

<http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855> http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855

Ok......now for the best bang for your buck braking upgrade.

I am assuming you have 16" wheels....or larger. That's pretty much what you need for this upgrade. Buy a set of used WRX calipers from someone off i-club who has upgraded their brakes to something larger. Sometimes you can get someone that upgraded everything and you might be able to get a decent set of rotors as well.

Here is what I'm doing for my current brake project.

Front WRX calipers $175
Rear turbo legacy calipers I think $150 or around there....not positive.
Slotted OEM WRX rotors $210
Slotted brembro rear turbo legacy rotors $200
Cryo treating all 4 rotors $100 (the place I used is in Puyallup, $25 a rotor www.onecryo.com )
Mintex 1155 pads front and rear ~$200 for front and rear
Goodridge SS lines $128
Motul 600 brake fluid (second highest wet boiling point temp brake fluid that is non-silicone based) like $12 a bottle.

So all said and done......I'm goin to be just a little over $1000 for all that stuff. I did get some deals on upgrade parts and such, but snagging braking parts from newer gen subies is the best bang for your buck. Other option some have been doin is snagging the rear brake setup from the H6 legacy wagon. The rears are 11.4" solid disc rotors.

I did a bit of research in the previous months on what to choose and why....pads were the ones I took the longest to choose. I have yet to put all this stuff on......I'm still slowly getting parts in. Plus I need to paint the calipers still.

If you want any more detailed info on reasons why I chose what I did. Let me know and I'll do my best to give you my reasoning and such.

Hope this helps.

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:28 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc: smartservice@aol.com; paul.brunson@attws.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long)

So, turns out I did have spark in my #1 cylinder... but my injector went south. $240 later, she's all fixed up. By the way, if you live in the Puget Sound (Washington state if anyone is wondering) and you are within reasonable distance to Lake Forest Park - Smart Service Subaru ( www.smartservice4u.com) is the way to go, and they are MRT certified now. Thanks again Mike! <end plug>

But... I have a new, and much more interesting dilemma...

For some time now I've known that my driving style is incompatible with the standard brake system on the first gen Legacy. As if that wasn't bad enough, I drive a wagon (extra weight) and hence, I have never owned a legacy I haven't warped the rotors on.

AND to top that, it's time for new struts. YUMMY! (can you say DMS? Knew you could...)

Smart Service informed me my pads are looking thin (25% up front, 30% in the rear) and I ought to think about getting them "done".

I've been waiting for this day since I've owned the car.

I have a new set of wheels I'm ready to get mounted (off an outback), I have a tire picked out: Kumho Ecsta 712 (but I don't know what size I want, and yes, I know it's the same rubber Dave has). They're my front running choice because Dave's review was so favorable - however I'm open to other people's opinions(??). Otherwise I'm satisfied with being labeled a copy-cat. Sue me. And FINALLY I can upgrade my brake system - which is what this e-mail is all about: What should I get?

The rims will accept almost anything, including 4pots but I'm not sure if I want to go that far - but since I can't find an accurate price anywhere on the web; can someone tell me how much they cost? If you know the answer to that, hold on to it and keep reading...

Jason G. told me (BTW, thanks again Jason for the 411 and the rims) that the best brake you can put on the rear is the 90-94 vented discs off the turbos, then upgrade the pads. Bam! 1/2 of the car is figured out - right? Those are the biggest/best for the rear ever made correct? But the real issue is what should I balance them with up front...

Everyone I talk to tells me the 4 pots are expensive, but no one can quote me a price either. Those same people will tell me in the one breath how phenomenal they are too. So naturally, it makes you want to look into getting them...but....

I know for sure I don't want x-drilled OR slotted. I just don't drive that hard for extended periods of time to where I need to defend against the pad glazing over, etc... And, I drive a white car. I'm not real hyper about washing the car, but let's face it - no one likes to have a car that looks like it just drove through a brake dust tornado. It's not like there's a formula that says if you have 4pots you have to have slotted/x-drilled brakes... Well, just follow me through my next point with that in mind K? On we go...

So, then should I just get the biggest vented stock rotor made and just upgrade my pads? Or is there something between a 4 pot/larger, vented rotor and stock pots/larger vented rotor? (I'm assuming upgraded pads AND stainless lines on both setups are a given). AND most importantly, is it worth it? What's the bang-for-buck scale on the different choices? If I'm not on the tracks every month, or chasing Jason around in the mud (meaning: I'm an aggressive driver going to the grocery store), does that automatically mean I should forget about the 4 pots? One other question: what about balance? If I'm gripping proportionally much harder up front than in the back by adding a larger rotor and additional pressure (proportionally speaking), how will that change the handling characteristics under braking?

BTW, I've read a million posts about how brakes don't make a bit of difference until you've reached the grip limit of the tires etc. I'm hoping to avoid that flame war... I am putting new rubber on. I'm not squealing my rubber at every stop sign so what everyone says about 99% of the drivers are never crossing the grip limit of the whole system prolly applies to me too. So I'll say it's a valid part of the overall picture so maybe worth discussing on a limited basis...

Last component of this question: Pads. Too close to stock and they heat up too quickly, henceforth contributing to conditions that produce warped rotors. Too close to performance and they generate a lot of dust and can be dangerous when braking when cold because the performance pads are designed to operate best under frequent load, which generates heat... Or are pads like tires, you just have to go through a few of them to know what you like, and figure out what matches your driving style best?

Holler back!

-Sambo
'91Auto-Wagon, 2.2L with warped rotors...
(I love ellipses, can you tell?)

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Sam & Beth Barrett · Post by **Sam & Beth Barrett** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:45 am

That sucks. Mebbe you buy a new one - it's just one caliper after all. There must be some rubber compound you can put on there... That leads my to my counter questions:

How much for the WRX front calipers? Since you are back in the market for one, do you know?
What are the rotor dimensions you are using? Perhaps Subaru made the same rotors without the slots...
Are the rotors your going with vented as well?

Best,

-Sambo

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Colombo [mailto:josh@surrealmirage.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 10:40 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

honestly.....I can't tell ya......I don't have them on yet.

But since we're talking brakes and such......the guy I bought the calipers from.....well he ended up nicking the rubber boot around the piston on the one caliper. I went to a shop....bummed some compressed air from them to blow the pistons out. Well the boots are pressed in there.....they won't come out. Soooo....now I have a dust boot that has a hole in it.........I really don't know if anything will seal it........should I just grease it up real good and put the sucker back together? I'd sooner not get another caliper.....I'm a little pissed at that SOB......those calipers were BEAT.....I've cleaned them.....and everything.....he used them pretty hard. Should've got some that were less worn and stuff......oh well.

Any suggestions...?

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 121 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

Josh (et. al.),

Well after a long day of surfing and making some calls... I think you got this thing nailed my man. But I got one question for you. I have a buddy with slotted rotors. When he throws the brakes on, the machine vibrates on account of the slots - which in my opinion, jacks up the feel of the ride. Not a lot, but enough that the guy riding in the passenger seat is going to look at you and ask a stupid question.

Am I wrong? Do you get that vibe at all?

-Sambo

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Colombo [mailto:josh@surrealmirage.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:35 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

Aight Sam......you ready to hear the solution to your braking dillema.......thought so.

I too believe the braking system of the first gen legacies is a little lacking.....the main cause IMO is due to the small stock OEM wheel size. You can only fit so large of brakes in a smaller wheel. The newer subarus are better. I'm on my 3rd set of rotors for the front since I've got my car in 95.....one set was cross-drilled.

Some precursors to what I think is the best upgrade bang for your buck. Some info.

Not sure if you read my write-up about cross-drilled vs. slotted rotors, www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/brake.html It's worth the read.

Also, here is a link to a thread on i-club with links to tons of braking info

<http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855> http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855

Ok......now for the best bang for your buck braking upgrade.

I am assuming you have 16" wheels....or larger. That's pretty much what you need for this upgrade. Buy a set of used WRX calipers from someone off i-club who has upgraded their brakes to something larger. Sometimes you can get someone that upgraded everything and you might be able to get a decent set of rotors as well.

Here is what I'm doing for my current brake project.

Front WRX calipers $175
Rear turbo legacy calipers I think $150 or around there....not positive.
Slotted OEM WRX rotors $210
Slotted brembro rear turbo legacy rotors $200
Cryo treating all 4 rotors $100 (the place I used is in Puyallup, $25 a rotor www.onecryo.com )
Mintex 1155 pads front and rear ~$200 for front and rear
Goodridge SS lines $128
Motul 600 brake fluid (second highest wet boiling point temp brake fluid that is non-silicone based) like $12 a bottle.

So all said and done......I'm goin to be just a little over $1000 for all that stuff. I did get some deals on upgrade parts and such, but snagging braking parts from newer gen subies is the best bang for your buck. Other option some have been doin is snagging the rear brake setup from the H6 legacy wagon. The rears are 11.4" solid disc rotors.

I did a bit of research in the previous months on what to choose and why....pads were the ones I took the longest to choose. I have yet to put all this stuff on......I'm still slowly getting parts in. Plus I need to paint the calipers still.

If you want any more detailed info on reasons why I chose what I did. Let me know and I'll do my best to give you my reasoning and such.

Hope this helps.

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:28 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc: smartservice@aol.com; paul.brunson@attws.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long)

So, turns out I did have spark in my #1 cylinder... but my injector went south. $240 later, she's all fixed up. By the way, if you live in the Puget Sound (Washington state if anyone is wondering) and you are within reasonable distance to Lake Forest Park - Smart Service Subaru ( www.smartservice4u.com) is the way to go, and they are MRT certified now. Thanks again Mike! <end plug>

But... I have a new, and much more interesting dilemma...

For some time now I've known that my driving style is incompatible with the standard brake system on the first gen Legacy. As if that wasn't bad enough, I drive a wagon (extra weight) and hence, I have never owned a legacy I haven't warped the rotors on.

AND to top that, it's time for new struts. YUMMY! (can you say DMS? Knew you could...)

Smart Service informed me my pads are looking thin (25% up front, 30% in the rear) and I ought to think about getting them "done".

I've been waiting for this day since I've owned the car.

I have a new set of wheels I'm ready to get mounted (off an outback), I have a tire picked out: Kumho Ecsta 712 (but I don't know what size I want, and yes, I know it's the same rubber Dave has). They're my front running choice because Dave's review was so favorable - however I'm open to other people's opinions(??). Otherwise I'm satisfied with being labeled a copy-cat. Sue me. And FINALLY I can upgrade my brake system - which is what this e-mail is all about: What should I get?

The rims will accept almost anything, including 4pots but I'm not sure if I want to go that far - but since I can't find an accurate price anywhere on the web; can someone tell me how much they cost? If you know the answer to that, hold on to it and keep reading...

Jason G. told me (BTW, thanks again Jason for the 411 and the rims) that the best brake you can put on the rear is the 90-94 vented discs off the turbos, then upgrade the pads. Bam! 1/2 of the car is figured out - right? Those are the biggest/best for the rear ever made correct? But the real issue is what should I balance them with up front...

Everyone I talk to tells me the 4 pots are expensive, but no one can quote me a price either. Those same people will tell me in the one breath how phenomenal they are too. So naturally, it makes you want to look into getting them...but....

I know for sure I don't want x-drilled OR slotted. I just don't drive that hard for extended periods of time to where I need to defend against the pad glazing over, etc... And, I drive a white car. I'm not real hyper about washing the car, but let's face it - no one likes to have a car that looks like it just drove through a brake dust tornado. It's not like there's a formula that says if you have 4pots you have to have slotted/x-drilled brakes... Well, just follow me through my next point with that in mind K? On we go...

So, then should I just get the biggest vented stock rotor made and just upgrade my pads? Or is there something between a 4 pot/larger, vented rotor and stock pots/larger vented rotor? (I'm assuming upgraded pads AND stainless lines on both setups are a given). AND most importantly, is it worth it? What's the bang-for-buck scale on the different choices? If I'm not on the tracks every month, or chasing Jason around in the mud (meaning: I'm an aggressive driver going to the grocery store), does that automatically mean I should forget about the 4 pots? One other question: what about balance? If I'm gripping proportionally much harder up front than in the back by adding a larger rotor and additional pressure (proportionally speaking), how will that change the handling characteristics under braking?

BTW, I've read a million posts about how brakes don't make a bit of difference until you've reached the grip limit of the tires etc. I'm hoping to avoid that flame war... I am putting new rubber on. I'm not squealing my rubber at every stop sign so what everyone says about 99% of the drivers are never crossing the grip limit of the whole system prolly applies to me too. So I'll say it's a valid part of the overall picture so maybe worth discussing on a limited basis...

Last component of this question: Pads. Too close to stock and they heat up too quickly, henceforth contributing to conditions that produce warped rotors. Too close to performance and they generate a lot of dust and can be dangerous when braking when cold because the performance pads are designed to operate best under frequent load, which generates heat... Or are pads like tires, you just have to go through a few of them to know what you like, and figure out what matches your driving style best?

Holler back!

-Sambo
'91Auto-Wagon, 2.2L with warped rotors...
(I love ellipses, can you tell?)

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

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To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

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zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:49 am

honestly.....I can't tell ya......I don't have them on yet.

But since we're talking brakes and such......the guy I bought the calipers from.....well he ended up nicking the rubber boot around the piston on the one caliper. I went to a shop....bummed some compressed air from them to blow the pistons out. Well the boots are pressed in there.....they won't come out. Soooo....now I have a dust boot that has a hole in it.........I really don't know if anything will seal it........should I just grease it up real good and put the sucker back together? I'd sooner not get another caliper.....I'm a little pissed at that SOB......those calipers were BEAT.....I've cleaned them.....and everything.....he used them pretty hard. Should've got some that were less worn and stuff......oh well.

Any suggestions...?

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 121 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

Josh (et. al.),

Well after a long day of surfing and making some calls... I think you got this thing nailed my man. But I got one question for you. I have a buddy with slotted rotors. When he throws the brakes on, the machine vibrates on account of the slots - which in my opinion, jacks up the feel of the ride. Not a lot, but enough that the guy riding in the passenger seat is going to look at you and ask a stupid question.

Am I wrong? Do you get that vibe at all?

-Sambo

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Colombo [mailto:josh@surrealmirage.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:35 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

Aight Sam......you ready to hear the solution to your braking dillema.......thought so.

I too believe the braking system of the first gen legacies is a little lacking.....the main cause IMO is due to the small stock OEM wheel size. You can only fit so large of brakes in a smaller wheel. The newer subarus are better. I'm on my 3rd set of rotors for the front since I've got my car in 95.....one set was cross-drilled.

Some precursors to what I think is the best upgrade bang for your buck. Some info.

Not sure if you read my write-up about cross-drilled vs. slotted rotors, www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/brake.html It's worth the read.

Also, here is a link to a thread on i-club with links to tons of braking info

<http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855> http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855

Ok......now for the best bang for your buck braking upgrade.

I am assuming you have 16" wheels....or larger. That's pretty much what you need for this upgrade. Buy a set of used WRX calipers from someone off i-club who has upgraded their brakes to something larger. Sometimes you can get someone that upgraded everything and you might be able to get a decent set of rotors as well.

Here is what I'm doing for my current brake project.

Front WRX calipers $175
Rear turbo legacy calipers I think $150 or around there....not positive.
Slotted OEM WRX rotors $210
Slotted brembro rear turbo legacy rotors $200
Cryo treating all 4 rotors $100 (the place I used is in Puyallup, $25 a rotor www.onecryo.com )
Mintex 1155 pads front and rear ~$200 for front and rear
Goodridge SS lines $128
Motul 600 brake fluid (second highest wet boiling point temp brake fluid that is non-silicone based) like $12 a bottle.

So all said and done......I'm goin to be just a little over $1000 for all that stuff. I did get some deals on upgrade parts and such, but snagging braking parts from newer gen subies is the best bang for your buck. Other option some have been doin is snagging the rear brake setup from the H6 legacy wagon. The rears are 11.4" solid disc rotors.

I did a bit of research in the previous months on what to choose and why....pads were the ones I took the longest to choose. I have yet to put all this stuff on......I'm still slowly getting parts in. Plus I need to paint the calipers still.

If you want any more detailed info on reasons why I chose what I did. Let me know and I'll do my best to give you my reasoning and such.

Hope this helps.

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:28 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc: smartservice@aol.com; paul.brunson@attws.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long)

So, turns out I did have spark in my #1 cylinder... but my injector went south. $240 later, she's all fixed up. By the way, if you live in the Puget Sound (Washington state if anyone is wondering) and you are within reasonable distance to Lake Forest Park - Smart Service Subaru (www.smartservice4u.com) is the way to go, and they are MRT certified now. Thanks again Mike! <end plug>

But... I have a new, and much more interesting dilemma...

For some time now I've known that my driving style is incompatible with the standard brake system on the first gen Legacy. As if that wasn't bad enough, I drive a wagon (extra weight) and hence, I have never owned a legacy I haven't warped the rotors on.

AND to top that, it's time for new struts. YUMMY! (can you say DMS? Knew you could...)

Smart Service informed me my pads are looking thin (25% up front, 30% in the rear) and I ought to think about getting them "done".

I've been waiting for this day since I've owned the car.

I have a new set of wheels I'm ready to get mounted (off an outback), I have a tire picked out: Kumho Ecsta 712 (but I don't know what size I want, and yes, I know it's the same rubber Dave has). They're my front running choice because Dave's review was so favorable - however I'm open to other people's opinions(??). Otherwise I'm satisfied with being labeled a copy-cat. Sue me. And FINALLY I can upgrade my brake system - which is what this e-mail is all about: What should I get?

The rims will accept almost anything, including 4pots but I'm not sure if I want to go that far - but since I can't find an accurate price anywhere on the web; can someone tell me how much they cost? If you know the answer to that, hold on to it and keep reading...

Jason G. told me (BTW, thanks again Jason for the 411 and the rims) that the best brake you can put on the rear is the 90-94 vented discs off the turbos, then upgrade the pads. Bam! 1/2 of the car is figured out - right? Those are the biggest/best for the rear ever made correct? But the real issue is what should I balance them with up front...

Everyone I talk to tells me the 4 pots are expensive, but no one can quote me a price either. Those same people will tell me in the one breath how phenomenal they are too. So naturally, it makes you want to look into getting them...but....

I know for sure I don't want x-drilled OR slotted. I just don't drive that hard for extended periods of time to where I need to defend against the pad glazing over, etc... And, I drive a white car. I'm not real hyper about washing the car, but let's face it - no one likes to have a car that looks like it just drove through a brake dust tornado. It's not like there's a formula that says if you have 4pots you have to have slotted/x-drilled brakes... Well, just follow me through my next point with that in mind K? On we go...

So, then should I just get the biggest vented stock rotor made and just upgrade my pads? Or is there something between a 4 pot/larger, vented rotor and stock pots/larger vented rotor? (I'm assuming upgraded pads AND stainless lines on both setups are a given). AND most importantly, is it worth it? What's the bang-for-buck scale on the different choices? If I'm not on the tracks every month, or chasing Jason around in the mud (meaning: I'm an aggressive driver going to the grocery store), does that automatically mean I should forget about the 4 pots? One other question: what about balance? If I'm gripping proportionally much harder up front than in the back by adding a larger rotor and additional pressure (proportionally speaking), how will that change the handling characteristics under braking?

BTW, I've read a million posts about how brakes don't make a bit of difference until you've reached the grip limit of the tires etc. I'm hoping to avoid that flame war... I am putting new rubber on. I'm not squealing my rubber at every stop sign so what everyone says about 99% of the drivers are never crossing the grip limit of the whole system prolly applies to me too. So I'll say it's a valid part of the overall picture so maybe worth discussing on a limited basis...

Last component of this question: Pads. Too close to stock and they heat up too quickly, henceforth contributing to conditions that produce warped rotors. Too close to performance and they generate a lot of dust and can be dangerous when braking when cold because the performance pads are designed to operate best under frequent load, which generates heat... Or are pads like tires, you just have to go through a few of them to know what you like, and figure out what matches your driving style best?

Holler back!

-Sambo
'91Auto-Wagon, 2.2L with warped rotors...
(I love ellipses, can you tell?)

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Brett Middleton · Post by **Brett Middleton** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 7:59 am

the dba rotors dont do this

and neither should any other brand
something is wrong

regards,

Brett Middleton

MRT Performance
We Rally, You Win.
www.MRTrally.com.au/forums Something to say?
www.EcuTek.com.au Tune / Data log your Subaru ECU

..>-----Original Message-----
..>From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
..>Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2002 31 PM
..>To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
..>Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has
..>arrived...(long) (solution)
..>
..>
..>Josh (et. al.),
..>
..>Well after a long day of surfing and making some calls... I
..>think you got this thing nailed my man. But I got one
..>question for you. I have a buddy with slotted rotors. When
..>he throws the brakes on, the machine vibrates on account of
..>the slots - which in my opinion, jacks up the feel of the
..>ride. Not a lot, but enough that the guy riding in the
..>passenger seat is going to look at you and ask a stupid question.
..>
..>Am I wrong? Do you get that vibe at all?
..>
..>-Sambo
..>
..>-----Original Message-----
..>From: Josh Colombo [mailto:josh@surrealmirage.com]
..>Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:35 AM
..>To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
..>Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has
..>arrived...(long) (solution)
..>
..>
..>Aight Sam......you ready to hear the solution to your
..>braking dillema.......thought so.
..>
..>I too believe the braking system of the first gen legacies
..>is a little lacking.....the main cause IMO is due to the
..>small stock OEM wheel size. You can only fit so large of
..>brakes in a smaller wheel. The newer subarus are better.
..>I'm on my 3rd set of rotors for the front since I've got my
..>car in 95.....one set was cross-drilled.
..>
..>Some precursors to what I think is the best upgrade bang
..>for your buck. Some info.
..>
..>Not sure if you read my write-up about cross-drilled vs.
..>slotted rotors, www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/brake.html
..>It's worth the read.
..>
..>Also, here is a link to a thread on i-club with links to
..>tons of braking info
..>
..>http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855
..>
..>Ok......now for the best bang for your buck braking upgrade.
..>
..>I am assuming you have 16" wheels....or larger. That's
..>pretty much what you need for this upgrade. Buy a set of
..>used WRX calipers from someone off i-club who has upgraded
..>their brakes to something larger. Sometimes you can get
..>someone that upgraded everything and you might be able to
..>get a decent set of rotors as well.
..>
..>Here is what I'm doing for my current brake project.
..>
..>Front WRX calipers $175
..>Rear turbo legacy calipers I think $150 or around
..>there....not positive.
..>Slotted OEM WRX rotors $210
..>Slotted brembro rear turbo legacy rotors $200
..>Cryo treating all 4 rotors $100 (the place I used is in
..>Puyallup, $25 a rotor www.onecryo.com )
..>Mintex 1155 pads front and rear ~$200 for front and rear
..>Goodridge SS lines $128
..>Motul 600 brake fluid (second highest wet boiling point
..>temp brake fluid that is non-silicone based) like $12 a bottle.
..>
..>So all said and done......I'm goin to be just a little over
..>$1000 for all that stuff. I did get some deals on upgrade
..>parts and such, but snagging braking parts from newer gen
..>subies is the best bang for your buck. Other option some
..>have been doin is snagging the rear brake setup from the H6
..>legacy wagon. The rears are 11.4" solid disc rotors.
..>
..>I did a bit of research in the previous months on what to
..>choose and why....pads were the ones I took the longest to
..>choose. I have yet to put all this stuff on......I'm still
..>slowly getting parts in. Plus I need to paint the calipers still.
..>
..>If you want any more detailed info on reasons why I chose
..>what I did. Let me know and I'll do my best to give you my
..>reasoning and such.
..>
..>Hope this helps.
..>
..>Josh
..>
..>************************************
..>Josh Colombo
..>Josh@surrealmirage.com
..>
..>"Life, an ever-changing melody
..> of beats and rhythm" - ME
..>************************************
..>
..>-----Original Message-----
..>From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
..>Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:28 AM
..>To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
..>Cc: smartservice@aol.com; paul.brunson@attws.com
..>Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long)
..>
..>
..>So, turns out I did have spark in my #1 cylinder... but my
..>injector went south. $240 later, she's all fixed up. By the
..>way, if you live in the Puget Sound (Washington state if
..>anyone is wondering) and you are within reasonable distance
..>to Lake Forest Park - Smart Service Subaru (
..>www.smartservice4u.com) is the way to go, and they are MRT
..>certified now. Thanks again Mike! <end plug>
..>
..>But... I have a new, and much more interesting dilemma...
..>
..>For some time now I've known that my driving style is
..>incompatible with the standard brake system on the first
..>gen Legacy. As if that wasn't bad enough, I drive a wagon
..>(extra weight) and hence, I have never owned a legacy I
..>haven't warped the rotors on.
..>
..>AND to top that, it's time for new struts. YUMMY! (can you
..>say DMS? Knew you could...)
..>
..>Smart Service informed me my pads are looking thin (25% up
..>front, 30% in the rear) and I ought to think about getting
..>them "done".
..>
..>I've been waiting for this day since I've owned the car.
..>
..>I have a new set of wheels I'm ready to get mounted (off an
..>outback), I have a tire picked out: Kumho Ecsta 712 (but I
..>don't know what size I want, and yes, I know it's the same
..>rubber Dave has). They're my front running choice because
..>Dave's review was so favorable - however I'm open to other
..>people's opinions(??). Otherwise I'm satisfied with being
..>labeled a copy-cat. Sue me. And FINALLY I can upgrade my
..>brake system - which is what this e-mail is all about: What
..>should I get?
..>
..>The rims will accept almost anything, including 4pots but
..>I'm not sure if I want to go that far - but since I can't
..>find an accurate price anywhere on the web; can someone
..>tell me how much they cost? If you know the answer to that,
..>hold on to it and keep reading...
..>
..>Jason G. told me (BTW, thanks again Jason for the 411 and
..>the rims) that the best brake you can put on the rear is
..>the 90-94 vented discs off the turbos, then upgrade the
..>pads. Bam! 1/2 of the car is figured out - right? Those are
..>the biggest/best for the rear ever made correct? But the
..>real issue is what should I balance them with up front...
..>
..>Everyone I talk to tells me the 4 pots are expensive, but
..>no one can quote me a price either. Those same people will
..>tell me in the one breath how phenomenal they are too. So
..>naturally, it makes you want to look into getting them...but....
..>
..>I know for sure I don't want x-drilled OR slotted. I just
..>don't drive that hard for extended periods of time to where
..>I need to defend against the pad glazing over, etc... And,
..>I drive a white car. I'm not real hyper about washing the
..>car, but let's face it - no one likes to have a car that
..>looks like it just drove through a brake dust tornado. It's
..>not like there's a formula that says if you have 4pots you
..>have to have slotted/x-drilled brakes... Well, just follow
..>me through my next point with that in mind K? On we go...
..>
..>So, then should I just get the biggest vented stock rotor
..>made and just upgrade my pads? Or is there something
..>between a 4 pot/larger, vented rotor and stock pots/larger
..>vented rotor? (I'm assuming upgraded pads AND stainless
..>lines on both setups are a given). AND most importantly, is
..>it worth it? What's the bang-for-buck scale on the
..>different choices? If I'm not on the tracks every month, or
..>chasing Jason around in the mud (meaning: I'm an aggressive
..>driver going to the grocery store), does that automatically
..>mean I should forget about the 4 pots? One other question:
..>what about balance? If I'm gripping proportionally much
..>harder up front than in the back by adding a larger rotor
..>and additional pressure (proportionally speaking), how will
..>that change the handling characteristics under braking?
..>
..>BTW, I've read a million posts about how brakes don't make
..>a bit of difference until you've reached the grip limit of
..>the tires etc. I'm hoping to avoid that flame war... I am
..>putting new rubber on. I'm not squealing my rubber at every
..>stop sign so what everyone says about 99% of the drivers
..>are never crossing the grip limit of the whole system
..>prolly applies to me too. So I'll say it's a valid part of
..>the overall picture so maybe worth discussing on a limited basis...
..>
..>Last component of this question: Pads. Too close to stock
..>and they heat up too quickly, henceforth contributing to
..>conditions that produce warped rotors. Too close to
..>performance and they generate a lot of dust and can be
..>dangerous when braking when cold because the performance
..>pads are designed to operate best under frequent load,
..>which generates heat... Or are pads like tires, you just
..>have to go through a few of them to know what you like, and
..>figure out what matches your driving style best?
..>
..>Holler back!
..>
..>-Sambo
..>'91Auto-Wagon, 2.2L with warped rotors...
..>(I love ellipses, can you tell?)
..>
..>
..>
..>To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
..>BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
..>
..>
..>
..>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
..>Service.
..>
..>
..>
..>To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
..>BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
..>
..>
..>
..>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
..>Service.
..>
..>

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Brett Middleton · Post by **Brett Middleton** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 7:59 am

this will help you

all the rotor dimensions!

http://www.mrtrally.com.au/forums/topic ... PIC_ID=135

regards,

Brett Middleton

MRT Performance
We Rally, You Win.
www.MRTrally.com.au/forums Something to say?
www.EcuTek.com.au Tune / Data log your Subaru ECU

..>-----Original Message-----
..>From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
..>Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2002 3:45 PM
..>To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
..>Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has
..>arrived...(long) (solution)
..>
..>
..>That sucks. Mebbe you buy a new one - it's just one caliper
..>after all. There must be some rubber compound you can put
..>on there... That leads my to my counter questions:
..>
..>How much for the WRX front calipers? Since you are back in
..>the market for one, do you know?
..>What are the rotor dimensions you are using? Perhaps Subaru
..>made the same rotors without the slots...
..>Are the rotors your going with vented as well?
..>
..>Best,
..>
..>-Sambo
..>
..>-----Original Message-----
..>From: Josh Colombo [mailto:josh@surrealmirage.com]
..>Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 10:40 PM
..>To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
..>Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has
..>arrived...(long) (solution)
..>
..>
..>honestly.....I can't tell ya......I don't have them on yet.
..>
..>But since we're talking brakes and such......the guy I
..>bought the calipers from.....well he ended up nicking the
..>rubber boot around the piston on the one caliper. I went
..>to a shop....bummed some compressed air from them to blow
..>the pistons out. Well the boots are pressed in
..>there.....they won't come out. Soooo....now I have a dust
..>boot that has a hole in it.........I really don't know if
..>anything will seal it........should I just grease it up
..>real good and put the sucker back together? I'd sooner
..>not get another caliper.....I'm a little pissed at that
..>SOB......those calipers were BEAT.....I've cleaned
..>them.....and everything.....he used them pretty hard.
..>Should've got some that were less worn and stuff......oh well.
..>
..>Any suggestions...?
..>
..>Josh
..>
..>************************************
..>Josh Colombo
..>Josh@surrealmirage.com
..>
..>"Life, an ever-changing melody
..> of beats and rhythm" - ME
..>************************************
..>
..>-----Original Message-----
..>From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
..>Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 121 AM
..>To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
..>Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has
..>arrived...(long) (solution)
..>
..>
..>Josh (et. al.),
..>
..>Well after a long day of surfing and making some calls... I
..>think you got this thing nailed my man. But I got one
..>question for you. I have a buddy with slotted rotors. When
..>he throws the brakes on, the machine vibrates on account of
..>the slots - which in my opinion, jacks up the feel of the
..>ride. Not a lot, but enough that the guy riding in the
..>passenger seat is going to look at you and ask a stupid question.
..>
..>Am I wrong? Do you get that vibe at all?
..>
..>-Sambo
..>
..>-----Original Message-----
..>From: Josh Colombo [mailto:josh@surrealmirage.com]
..>Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:35 AM
..>To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
..>Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has
..>arrived...(long) (solution)
..>
..>
..>Aight Sam......you ready to hear the solution to your
..>braking dillema.......thought so.
..>
..>I too believe the braking system of the first gen legacies
..>is a little lacking.....the main cause IMO is due to the
..>small stock OEM wheel size. You can only fit so large of
..>brakes in a smaller wheel. The newer subarus are better.
..>I'm on my 3rd set of rotors for the front since I've got my
..>car in 95.....one set was cross-drilled.
..>
..>Some precursors to what I think is the best upgrade bang
..>for your buck. Some info.
..>
..>Not sure if you read my write-up about cross-drilled vs.
..>slotted rotors, www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/brake.html
..>It's worth the read.
..>
..>Also, here is a link to a thread on i-club with links to
..>tons of braking info
..>
..>http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855
..>
..>Ok......now for the best bang for your buck braking upgrade.
..>
..>I am assuming you have 16" wheels....or larger. That's
..>pretty much what you need for this upgrade. Buy a set of
..>used WRX calipers from someone off i-club who has upgraded
..>their brakes to something larger. Sometimes you can get
..>someone that upgraded everything and you might be able to
..>get a decent set of rotors as well.
..>
..>Here is what I'm doing for my current brake project.
..>
..>Front WRX calipers $175
..>Rear turbo legacy calipers I think $150 or around
..>there....not positive.
..>Slotted OEM WRX rotors $210
..>Slotted brembro rear turbo legacy rotors $200
..>Cryo treating all 4 rotors $100 (the place I used is in
..>Puyallup, $25 a rotor www.onecryo.com )
..>Mintex 1155 pads front and rear ~$200 for front and rear
..>Goodridge SS lines $128
..>Motul 600 brake fluid (second highest wet boiling point
..>temp brake fluid that is non-silicone based) like $12 a bottle.
..>
..>So all said and done......I'm goin to be just a little over
..>$1000 for all that stuff. I did get some deals on upgrade
..>parts and such, but snagging braking parts from newer gen
..>subies is the best bang for your buck. Other option some
..>have been doin is snagging the rear brake setup from the H6
..>legacy wagon. The rears are 11.4" solid disc rotors.
..>
..>I did a bit of research in the previous months on what to
..>choose and why....pads were the ones I took the longest to
..>choose. I have yet to put all this stuff on......I'm still
..>slowly getting parts in. Plus I need to paint the calipers still.
..>
..>If you want any more detailed info on reasons why I chose
..>what I did. Let me know and I'll do my best to give you my
..>reasoning and such.
..>
..>Hope this helps.
..>
..>Josh
..>
..>************************************
..>Josh Colombo
..>Josh@surrealmirage.com
..>
..>"Life, an ever-changing melody
..> of beats and rhythm" - ME
..>************************************
..>
..>-----Original Message-----
..>From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
..>Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:28 AM
..>To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
..>Cc: smartservice@aol.com; paul.brunson@attws.com
..>Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long)
..>
..>
..>So, turns out I did have spark in my #1 cylinder... but my
..>injector went south. $240 later, she's all fixed up. By the
..>way, if you live in the Puget Sound (Washington state if
..>anyone is wondering) and you are within reasonable distance
..>to Lake Forest Park - Smart Service Subaru (
..>www.smartservice4u.com) is the way to go, and they are MRT
..>certified now. Thanks again Mike! <end plug>
..>
..>But... I have a new, and much more interesting dilemma...
..>
..>For some time now I've known that my driving style is
..>incompatible with the standard brake system on the first
..>gen Legacy. As if that wasn't bad enough, I drive a wagon
..>(extra weight) and hence, I have never owned a legacy I
..>haven't warped the rotors on.
..>
..>AND to top that, it's time for new struts. YUMMY! (can you
..>say DMS? Knew you could...)
..>
..>Smart Service informed me my pads are looking thin (25% up
..>front, 30% in the rear) and I ought to think about getting
..>them "done".
..>
..>I've been waiting for this day since I've owned the car.
..>
..>I have a new set of wheels I'm ready to get mounted (off an
..>outback), I have a tire picked out: Kumho Ecsta 712 (but I
..>don't know what size I want, and yes, I know it's the same
..>rubber Dave has). They're my front running choice because
..>Dave's review was so favorable - however I'm open to other
..>people's opinions(??). Otherwise I'm satisfied with being
..>labeled a copy-cat. Sue me. And FINALLY I can upgrade my
..>brake system - which is what this e-mail is all about: What
..>should I get?
..>
..>The rims will accept almost anything, including 4pots but
..>I'm not sure if I want to go that far - but since I can't
..>find an accurate price anywhere on the web; can someone
..>tell me how much they cost? If you know the answer to that,
..>hold on to it and keep reading...
..>
..>Jason G. told me (BTW, thanks again Jason for the 411 and
..>the rims) that the best brake you can put on the rear is
..>the 90-94 vented discs off the turbos, then upgrade the
..>pads. Bam! 1/2 of the car is figured out - right? Those are
..>the biggest/best for the rear ever made correct? But the
..>real issue is what should I balance them with up front...
..>
..>Everyone I talk to tells me the 4 pots are expensive, but
..>no one can quote me a price either. Those same people will
..>tell me in the one breath how phenomenal they are too. So
..>naturally, it makes you want to look into getting them...but....
..>
..>I know for sure I don't want x-drilled OR slotted. I just
..>don't drive that hard for extended periods of time to where
..>I need to defend against the pad glazing over, etc... And,
..>I drive a white car. I'm not real hyper about washing the
..>car, but let's face it - no one likes to have a car that
..>looks like it just drove through a brake dust tornado. It's
..>not like there's a formula that says if you have 4pots you
..>have to have slotted/x-drilled brakes... Well, just follow
..>me through my next point with that in mind K? On we go...
..>
..>So, then should I just get the biggest vented stock rotor
..>made and just upgrade my pads? Or is there something
..>between a 4 pot/larger, vented rotor and stock pots/larger
..>vented rotor? (I'm assuming upgraded pads AND stainless
..>lines on both setups are a given). AND most importantly, is
..>it worth it? What's the bang-for-buck scale on the
..>different choices? If I'm not on the tracks every month, or
..>chasing Jason around in the mud (meaning: I'm an aggressive
..>driver going to the grocery store), does that automatically
..>mean I should forget about the 4 pots? One other question:
..>what about balance? If I'm gripping proportionally much
..>harder up front than in the back by adding a larger rotor
..>and additional pressure (proportionally speaking), how will
..>that change the handling characteristics under braking?
..>
..>BTW, I've read a million posts about how brakes don't make
..>a bit of difference until you've reached the grip limit of
..>the tires etc. I'm hoping to avoid that flame war... I am
..>putting new rubber on. I'm not squealing my rubber at every
..>stop sign so what everyone says about 99% of the drivers
..>are never crossing the grip limit of the whole system
..>prolly applies to me too. So I'll say it's a valid part of
..>the overall picture so maybe worth discussing on a limited basis...
..>
..>Last component of this question: Pads. Too close to stock
..>and they heat up too quickly, henceforth contributing to
..>conditions that produce warped rotors. Too close to
..>performance and they generate a lot of dust and can be
..>dangerous when braking when cold because the performance
..>pads are designed to operate best under frequent load,
..>which generates heat... Or are pads like tires, you just
..>have to go through a few of them to know what you like, and
..>figure out what matches your driving style best?
..>
..>Holler back!
..>
..>-Sambo
..>'91Auto-Wagon, 2.2L with warped rotors...
..>(I love ellipses, can you tell?)
..>
..>
..>
..>To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
..>BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
..>
..>
..>
..>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
..>Service.
..>
..>
..>
..>To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
..>BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
..>
..>
..>
..>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
..>Service.
..>
..>
..>
..>To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
..>BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
..>
..>
..>
..>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
..>Service.
..>
..>

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 10:39 am

Well......i-club is still probably your best bet on picking up WRX calipers for pretty cheap. I think I paid 175.....for the whole kitten caboodle.

The rotor dimensions are 294x24mm That's about 11.55" diameter

All front rotors are vented. The venting are straight vain vents, not the scattered venting. This drawing best describes the dimensions of the rotor http://www.dba.com.au/forum/dba_650.pdf However the venting is not correct.

Subaru doesn't make OEM rotors with slots. You have to get that done aftermarket. You can pickup some US WRX rotors from www.libertysubaru.com for pretty cheap, plus they are not flakey like subaruparts.com.

Here's some pics of my rotors
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... rotor1.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... rotor2.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... rotor3.jpg

I'm not sure what I'm goin to do about the caliper. I really don't want to buy another caliper.......

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 12:45 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

That sucks. Mebbe you buy a new one - it's just one caliper after all. There must be some rubber compound you can put on there... That leads my to my counter questions:

How much for the WRX front calipers? Since you are back in the market for one, do you know?
What are the rotor dimensions you are using? Perhaps Subaru made the same rotors without the slots...
Are the rotors your going with vented as well?

Best,

-Sambo

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Colombo [mailto:josh@surrealmirage.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 10:40 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

honestly.....I can't tell ya......I don't have them on yet.

But since we're talking brakes and such......the guy I bought the calipers from.....well he ended up nicking the rubber boot around the piston on the one caliper. I went to a shop....bummed some compressed air from them to blow the pistons out. Well the boots are pressed in there.....they won't come out. Soooo....now I have a dust boot that has a hole in it.........I really don't know if anything will seal it........should I just grease it up real good and put the sucker back together? I'd sooner not get another caliper.....I'm a little pissed at that SOB......those calipers were BEAT.....I've cleaned them.....and everything.....he used them pretty hard. Should've got some that were less worn and stuff......oh well.

Any suggestions...?

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 121 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

Josh (et. al.),

Well after a long day of surfing and making some calls... I think you got this thing nailed my man. But I got one question for you. I have a buddy with slotted rotors. When he throws the brakes on, the machine vibrates on account of the slots - which in my opinion, jacks up the feel of the ride. Not a lot, but enough that the guy riding in the passenger seat is going to look at you and ask a stupid question.

Am I wrong? Do you get that vibe at all?

-Sambo

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Colombo [mailto:josh@surrealmirage.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:35 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long) (solution)

Aight Sam......you ready to hear the solution to your braking dillema.......thought so.

I too believe the braking system of the first gen legacies is a little lacking.....the main cause IMO is due to the small stock OEM wheel size. You can only fit so large of brakes in a smaller wheel. The newer subarus are better. I'm on my 3rd set of rotors for the front since I've got my car in 95.....one set was cross-drilled.

Some precursors to what I think is the best upgrade bang for your buck. Some info.

Not sure if you read my write-up about cross-drilled vs. slotted rotors, www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/brake.html It's worth the read.

Also, here is a link to a thread on i-club with links to tons of braking info

<http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855> http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread ... did=192855

Ok......now for the best bang for your buck braking upgrade.

I am assuming you have 16" wheels....or larger. That's pretty much what you need for this upgrade. Buy a set of used WRX calipers from someone off i-club who has upgraded their brakes to something larger. Sometimes you can get someone that upgraded everything and you might be able to get a decent set of rotors as well.

Here is what I'm doing for my current brake project.

Front WRX calipers $175
Rear turbo legacy calipers I think $150 or around there....not positive.
Slotted OEM WRX rotors $210
Slotted brembro rear turbo legacy rotors $200
Cryo treating all 4 rotors $100 (the place I used is in Puyallup, $25 a rotor www.onecryo.com )
Mintex 1155 pads front and rear ~$200 for front and rear
Goodridge SS lines $128
Motul 600 brake fluid (second highest wet boiling point temp brake fluid that is non-silicone based) like $12 a bottle.

So all said and done......I'm goin to be just a little over $1000 for all that stuff. I did get some deals on upgrade parts and such, but snagging braking parts from newer gen subies is the best bang for your buck. Other option some have been doin is snagging the rear brake setup from the H6 legacy wagon. The rears are 11.4" solid disc rotors.

I did a bit of research in the previous months on what to choose and why....pads were the ones I took the longest to choose. I have yet to put all this stuff on......I'm still slowly getting parts in. Plus I need to paint the calipers still.

If you want any more detailed info on reasons why I chose what I did. Let me know and I'll do my best to give you my reasoning and such.

Hope this helps.

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
<mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> Josh@surrealmirage.com

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam & Beth Barrett [mailto:LEVATHIAN@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:28 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc: smartservice@aol.com; paul.brunson@attws.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] The day has arrived...(long)

So, turns out I did have spark in my #1 cylinder... but my injector went south. $240 later, she's all fixed up. By the way, if you live in the Puget Sound (Washington state if anyone is wondering) and you are within reasonable distance to Lake Forest Park - Smart Service Subaru (www.smartservice4u.com) is the way to go, and they are MRT certified now. Thanks again Mike! <end plug>

But... I have a new, and much more interesting dilemma...

For some time now I've known that my driving style is incompatible with the standard brake system on the first gen Legacy. As if that wasn't bad enough, I drive a wagon (extra weight) and hence, I have never owned a legacy I haven't warped the rotors on.

AND to top that, it's time for new struts. YUMMY! (can you say DMS? Knew you could...)

Smart Service informed me my pads are looking thin (25% up front, 30% in the rear) and I ought to think about getting them "done".

I've been waiting for this day since I've owned the car.

I have a new set of wheels I'm ready to get mounted (off an outback), I have a tire picked out: Kumho Ecsta 712 (but I don't know what size I want, and yes, I know it's the same rubber Dave has). They're my front running choice because Dave's review was so favorable - however I'm open to other people's opinions(??). Otherwise I'm satisfied with being labeled a copy-cat. Sue me. And FINALLY I can upgrade my brake system - which is what this e-mail is all about: What should I get?

The rims will accept almost anything, including 4pots but I'm not sure if I want to go that far - but since I can't find an accurate price anywhere on the web; can someone tell me how much they cost? If you know the answer to that, hold on to it and keep reading...

Jason G. told me (BTW, thanks again Jason for the 411 and the rims) that the best brake you can put on the rear is the 90-94 vented discs off the turbos, then upgrade the pads. Bam! 1/2 of the car is figured out - right? Those are the biggest/best for the rear ever made correct? But the real issue is what should I balance them with up front...

Everyone I talk to tells me the 4 pots are expensive, but no one can quote me a price either. Those same people will tell me in the one breath how phenomenal they are too. So naturally, it makes you want to look into getting them...but....

I know for sure I don't want x-drilled OR slotted. I just don't drive that hard for extended periods of time to where I need to defend against the pad glazing over, etc... And, I drive a white car. I'm not real hyper about washing the car, but let's face it - no one likes to have a car that looks like it just drove through a brake dust tornado. It's not like there's a formula that says if you have 4pots you have to have slotted/x-drilled brakes... Well, just follow me through my next point with that in mind K? On we go...

So, then should I just get the biggest vented stock rotor made and just upgrade my pads? Or is there something between a 4 pot/larger, vented rotor and stock pots/larger vented rotor? (I'm assuming upgraded pads AND stainless lines on both setups are a given). AND most importantly, is it worth it? What's the bang-for-buck scale on the different choices? If I'm not on the tracks every month, or chasing Jason around in the mud (meaning: I'm an aggressive driver going to the grocery store), does that automatically mean I should forget about the 4 pots? One other question: what about balance? If I'm gripping proportionally much harder up front than in the back by adding a larger rotor and additional pressure (proportionally speaking), how will that change the handling characteristics under braking?

BTW, I've read a million posts about how brakes don't make a bit of difference until you've reached the grip limit of the tires etc. I'm hoping to avoid that flame war... I am putting new rubber on. I'm not squealing my rubber at every stop sign so what everyone says about 99% of the drivers are never crossing the grip limit of the whole system prolly applies to me too. So I'll say it's a valid part of the overall picture so maybe worth discussing on a limited basis...

Last component of this question: Pads. Too close to stock and they heat up too quickly, henceforth contributing to conditions that produce warped rotors. Too close to performance and they generate a lot of dust and can be dangerous when braking when cold because the performance pads are designed to operate best under frequent load, which generates heat... Or are pads like tires, you just have to go through a few of them to know what you like, and figure out what matches your driving style best?

Holler back!

-Sambo
'91Auto-Wagon, 2.2L with warped rotors...
(I love ellipses, can you tell?)

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
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A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans