No check engine light with speedo disconnected?

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:34 am

hey guys it seems there is only one oem fuel pump. My walbro fuel pump is wining and i do not like how my pump relays are hot. So i figured since i have a na pump might as well try it. Will it work ? Thanks

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vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:44 pm

Don't do it! I don't know where you got the idea that there's only one OEM fuel pump, but it's not true. The NA pump does not flow enough for a turbo.

Walbro pumps do tend to be a bit loud, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Do you have multiple pump relays? Our cars only come with one from the factory. If it's hot to the touch it probably should be replaced because the contacts are wearing out.

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:14 pm

ok thanks. There does appear to be two relays. One is metal the other is plastic and both are hot to the touch. Going to get a price on the relays.

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:39 am

These are the two relays I found warm or HOT per say.

I believe the brown relay is a ignition relay and the other is the pump relay. Any ideas regarding what is creating the issue?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:12 am

Hmm, they're both hot?

You're right that the brown plastic one is the ignition relay and the metal one is the fuel pump relay. I don't think they should be too hot but now that I think of it I haven't really felt any after the car's been on for a while. Maybe that's normal.

Did they start becoming hot only after you swapped in the Walbro pump? How long does it take for them to get that hot?

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:52 pm

when i bought the car had the pump. Doesnt really get very hot its warm i guess just suspicious these two relays were floating and not on there bracket.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:57 pm

Huh. That's probably normal. Next time I'm out for a drive I'll try to remember to check to see how warm mine get. Those relays are kind of hard to reach so if the previous owner had to replace one of them he or she probably never bothered putting them back on the bracket. I know I did that on my car.

Walbro pumps do whine fairly loudly compared to OEM pumps, so it sounds like your car's actually behaving normally. If you want to go back to a stock pump, I believe xbn377 is selling one in the Parts Shed:

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=39606

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:37 am

if its normal ill leave it. It was just bothering me if i plan to take a long trip. Next issue is finding out why my fans will not cycle off after the engine has warmed up and the needle stays just below the half mark. Also tried 3 different temp sensors one used oem one new non oem and now new oem.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:17 am

This may be a dumb question, but are you running the air conditioner? Because the fans stay on if the A/C is on.

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:56 am

nope sounds like a relay is getting stuck. I hear something in the dash but i cant see the relay. Is there some fan relay in the dash ?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:40 pm

Yes, one of the relays in the passenger-compartment fuse box is the main fan relay. I believe it's the one that's closest to the front of the car (so if you stick your head down in the footwell and look at the fusebox it'll be on the right). The other two are for the rear defroster and the parking lights. All three relays are the same, so you could try swapping them around.

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:12 pm

already tried those its not just the main fan spinning the sub is as well.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:57 am

You honestly think the Walbro is that loud? I only over hear it when it primes.

How hot are we talking? Like frying eggs hot, or hold your finger for 30 seconds hot? Remember, paper ignites at 451 degrees.

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:27 am

hold finger 30 seconds... I guess it is normal. Still have this fan issue thing in my head. How important are the lines going through the iac and tb ? Think i can get at them easily to clean them im sure they are clogged with stop leak.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:07 pm

The lines? The coolant lines?

The IAC valve needs coolant running through it to properly regulate idle at varying engine temperatures.

The lines are awkward to get to but you can do it. You might have to remove the IAC valve because the turbo IAC valve's inlet fitting is a long pipe that snakes upward and blocks some access to things underneath it.

Don't know about the fan issue... I didn't think there was another relay involved. So the fans turn on only after the engine is warmed up but they don't turn off after that? That could just be a problem with the coolant temperature sensor. If the ECU thinks the coolant's above 200 degrees it'll run the fan, but the thermostat won't really allow it to be cooled below about 180 degrees. It's not uncommon for these sensors to slowly start reading slightly off with age, so if you don't know how old yours is you might just want to replace it.

I don't suppose you can run my scan tool?

Hey, you wanna edit the title of this thread so it reflects that the discussion is about the pumps, the relays, and the fans?

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:28 pm

I tried 3 different CTS. stock, brand new non oem, brand new oem. Same thing... EXACT same thing lol. No check engine light and the light does work. If I let it warm up till it cycles the fan its fine. If I start driving around for a bit like 10-30mins they won't start cycling unless I shut off the car for 10 minutes, but again the same thing happens after driving not idling, actually driving around for more then 10 minutes.

New items: tried two new rad caps, thermostat, replaced the rad, alot of rad hoses. Also did my belt recently and pump and idlers. ALL OEM.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:12 pm

Wait. Now I'm very confused about what the symptoms are. I thought you said the fans won't cycle off. But you're saying they work fine if the engine warms up now? Does that mean your cooling fans are running even when the engine's cold?

What do you mean when you say they won't start cycling?

Please explain the symptoms very clearly for me.

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:24 pm

ok lets say the engine is cold and i let it idle till it is at operating temperature the fans will cycle on and off. After i actually drive the car around and come to a stop with ac off the fans will NOT cycle.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:28 pm

By "not cycle" you mean they turn on but won't go back off?

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:32 pm

Correct. Waiting for my evoscan cable to check out everything. I got new suspension though so I think when I go to the dealer for alignment ill ask if they can just plug in there select monitor tool and make sure the car is not overheating.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:27 am

Yup, worth a look. It's an odd problem, but one few people would notice. It's possible a lot of us have the same thing going on with our fans. Keep us posted.

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:21 pm

my dad seems to think it might be normal to keep the heat down under the hood. I still believe its odd. Also found something interesting under the rear seat with the fuel pump wiring. Ill post pics later.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:26 pm

I don't believe it is normal. When testing out my scan tool I definitely noticed a pattern of the fan turning off after it brought coolant temperature down below 200 degrees.

The fuel pump connector under the rear seat is a common failure point; the pins that carry the current for the pump eventually corrode a little and make a high-resistance connection that scorches the plastic and eventually fails completely; the previous owner probably just spliced around it or something.

Post by **Legacy777** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:41 pm

The cooling fans turn on around 202-203, and they turn off around 188-189 deg F.

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:42 pm

lol that was exactly what happened didn't think it was normal since my N/A car didn't do it.

whats with the burn marks on the floor though?

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No check engine light with speedo disconnected?

No check engine light with speedo disconnected?