'91 Legacy SS 5M/T CEL

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:57 pm

Just bought this car and the CEL comes on. The previous owner said he ran the codes(not sure how he did this), and something about the EGR valve came up. Any idea what he might be referring to, or what the problem and fix is? Thank you in advance.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:44 pm

Uh... I'm pretty sure your car has no EGR system.

Try doing a "read memory" procedure to find the code: http://www.xmission.com/~dac/library/codes.htm

boostjunkie · Post by **boostjunkie** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:47 pm

Yeah, I read the egr thing and was like, "how come mine doesn't have one?" If we do, it's not in the location where my GT's was.

boostjunkie · Post by **boostjunkie** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:48 pm

Is it an intermittant light or is it always on? Intermittant CE lights (especially under acceleration) usually mean misfires.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:51 pm

I didn't think our ECUs could detect misfires. As far as I can tell there is no ECU trouble code for a misfire...

I remember when the OBD II standard started requiring cars to be able to detect misfires in each cylinder automakers had to come up with practical and reliable methods for doing so electronically.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 1:33 am

There are many posts and links on here about how to get codes. Keep looking you'll find em...

There is a misfire code, but I was having misfiring all the time thanks to arcing spark plug wires, and I don't have any codes, so I've come to the conclusion our OBDI ECU's aren't very sensitive...

And, no, there is no EGR system on 90-94 Legacies...

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 3:45 am

What is the misfire code?

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 6:05 am

Um, I'm a dum-ass, never mind, I could have sworn I saw a misfire code for OBD1...

Nope, I'm not embarrased now...

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 6:59 am

I thought he said it was an EGR valve problem, maybe he didn't say that. Any way the light is always on. I looked at the referenced website to find out about CEL codes and it didn't continue with a report. I will keep looking for ann answer. Just got this car and will fix what is broke first then start modifications. Rear window defoger does not work , fuse is OK. Fix for this is?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 3:34 pm

You did the read memory procedure (connecting the black connectors and then switching the ignition to ON without starting) and the CEL didn't flash out a code? I thought that if the CEL was on when driving it always stored a code in memory...

Maybe try the D-Check procedure, where you connect the green connectors and run the car a bit.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 7:15 pm

That's what I do is D-check, the green wires and start the engine and drive it...

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Sun Jan 26, 2003 9:54 pm

Thanks vrg3. The first time I looked at your site the How To Read... portion did not come up. I printed it ,so now I can try it out. Maybe I can do it before Oakland loses the Super Bowl today.

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 9:23 am

Changed out the knock sensor, and the purge solenoid valve. Not a picnic! The codes still appear after doing the battery disconnect. When the green connectors are hooked up the electric fan cycles on and off and a clicking sound comes from the duty solenoid valve. The car will not start with these connectors hooked up.Would like to get the light to go off and fix anything that is not right. Any suggestions?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:21 pm

Well, what codes did the read memory procedure turn up? That'd be where to start...

It's really weird that your car won't start in D-check mode. The fan and solenoid cycling is normal; the ECU is just constantly testing them.

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 8:57 pm

When the black connectors were hooked up the codes showing were22,23, and 35. The car starts right up(except when green connectors are hooked up), and generally runs OK. 174,000 miles and the car is in good condition. Keep diognosing and I will keep checking and trying things. Thanks.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:18 pm

22 and 35 are common and easy.

22 is the knock sensor which should be replaced with updated part 22060aa031.

35 can be fixed with a resistor or by purchasing a somewhat expensive part, the CEL for this problem should RARELY illuminate, fix it last.

49 however could be bad news.

You should connect both the green and black wires then drive around for a while. Watch the CEL, it should blink in a constant fashion. If it starts to display codes then you know you have a problem.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:56 pm

If his car won't start in D-check mode, it probably won't start in clear memory mode either, since a clear memory procedure is basically a D-check with the added "if-there-aren't-any-detected-problems-then-clear-the-memory" instruction.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:36 pm

ciper wrote:22 and 35 are common and easy.

22 is the knock sensor which should be replaced with updated part 22060aa031.

35 can be fixed with a resistor or by purchasing a somewhat expensive part, the CEL for this problem should RARELY illuminate, fix it last.

My knock sensor was bad, and I never got a 22 code, but my CEL lit for the purge valve, 35, and others have had it too, those are as problematic on these cars as the knock sensor...

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:23 am

As I said earlier I did change out the knock sensor(code22) with part 22060AA031 and the valve assy-sol(purge solenoid valve), code35, with part 14774AA351. As you know this was not a really fun thing to do. Even with these parts replaced the codes reappear(22,23,35). The car will not start with the green connectors hooked up at any time. The only time I got a code 49 was when I disconnected the air flow sensor. The car had to have throttle to stay running with the MAF disconnected. Hooked it back up and the car was its normal. Did not erase the codes again yet so assume the 49 would go away if I did. Josh has been sending me some things to try and he suggested that I let you guys help also. Think the car may be running better since these parts have been replaced,but it might be the same. The car starts right up and runs OK. Its for sale also. Just trying to learn some things and try to make it better. Would be a good car for a Subaru enthusiast to play with. I really don't have room for it.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:23 pm

Without actually seeing what the values are for those particular sensors at the ECU......it's hard to specifically point a finger.

However at this point I would say there is a wiring issue/short possibility some where. Or your ECU is on the fritz.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:45 pm

I'd have to agree with Josh; it looks like there's a good chance your ECU or its wiring are flaky.

If you can manage to get a friend or two to help you with it, try checking the lines from the ECU connectors to each of the sensors (or at least the few that you're getting codes for), and have a friend jiggle the harnesses. Make sure the connections are good and have zero ohms of resistance.

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:01 am

My feeling now is that there are some wiring issues also. I am taking the car to a Stellar Performer dealer(Peninsula Subaru, Gorst Wa.) in a couple of weeks for a used car inspection, because I should sell this car(no room for it). Some interested parties have asked about having this check done before they would buy it. I didn't before I bought it, but it might turn up a fix for this issue. Am having fun making it better though. I will let you know what turns up. Thanks Josh and vrg3.

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:31 am

UPDATE: I figured out why the car would not start with the black and green connectors hooked up. You need to depress the clutch pedal. Hah, Hah,Hah... Sometimes I forget which car I am in. Anyway, the knock sensor code is still there. It looks like I will need to run a new wire for it because there is a nick in the wire a couple of inches before where the harness connector plugs into the connector from the knock sensor.
I will use info from this thread http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=32050

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:58 am

I started this thread several years ago when I was new here. It should be in electrical, I think. Anyway, I got a harness side pig tail with about six inches of wire, to plug into the knock sensor female end. I stripped a 1/2", and got the shield wire separated from the signal wire, cut off the original male pig tail past where the wire was damaged on it. I used bullet splice connectors and plugged it in. I left the ends that go to the ECU alone. I had already checked those and they seem to be ok.
Start the car up and let it warm up. Turned it off and mated up the green and black connectors. Looks good, get five 1/2 second flashes. Go for a drive with them connected and after about a mile I get two long and two short flashes. 22 for knock sensor.
Kind of a hassle. Had to pull the IC off to do the work and still get the code.
I loosened the bolt on the knock sensor, I had changed it out several years ago, and it was very tight. I wonder if the knock sensor is broke? Maybe I damaged it by using too much torque to install it.
Think I'll buy a new knock sensor, and try that.

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:21 am

I purchased a new knock sensor, $54.00 Peninsula Subaru. Left the IC on, removed the old knock sensor, cleaned the surface it mates to on the block real well, installed the new one using 12ft./lbs. torque on the bolt. The CEl did not come back on. The old sensor did not look damaged, but I am very happy there is not a CEL anymore. Got used to seeing that red glow in the corner of the dash.
Haven't driven it much yet, but will take it out this evening for a more spirited test drive. It sure seems like the car runs better, especially at higher rpm's.

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'91 Legacy SS 5M/T CEL

'91 Legacy SS 5M/T CEL

91 Legacy SS CEL

CEL code 22,23,35

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MODERATOR: please move to electrical, thx.

new knock sensor=CEL gone