Good or bad idea?

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:28 am

I noticed in some of the pictures from Aussie land that the RS has what look to be driving lights ( or maybe they are fogs) where the fog lamps would be on the 92-94 turbo bumper. On back roads at night I find my brights lacking a bit and want really bright lights without having rally style
assemblies on the front bumper. So here's my idea, I doubt it's legal. What about mounting some Hella 90 mm brights in the fog lamp holes and wire them to a switch like fog lamps?
http://www.susquehanna.com/susq/hella/90mm.htm

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:02 am

I believe it would be legal in most states, actually, as long as the auxiliary lights were used only when high beams were on (and that the high beams were on legally).

I have a 92-94 bumper and some Hella 90mm high beams, so let me see how they fit and report back my findings.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure those are fog lights on all the non-US cars.

Dave G · Post by **Dave G** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:14 pm

Sounds like just the ticket. I installed some Blazer fogs in those spots, set back in the bumper. Mine are closer to 100mm, and it was a tight fit with the bracket (I used 3/16" bar stock to mount the bracket and get the light set back an appropriate amount. It sure looks better than the blanks that go there. I also got better lighting after cleaning the inside of the headlight lens housing and using polishing compound on the outside.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:12 pm

I was thinking about some buggers behind the grille. I have the 90 L grille so theres lots of space to let light out. Totally stealth lookin

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:53 am

vrg3 wrote:
I have a 92-94 bumper and some Hella 90mm high beams, so let me see how they fit and report back my findings.

Did you have a chance to look at that yet?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:57 am

Yeah, I took a look today... I have some small fog lights in there now, and I was able to remove them but not the brackets, so I couldn't tell for sure, but it does look like the 90mm high beams will fit in there with a little massaging and a little bracket fabrication.

I may put more effort into figuring this out... The 90mm low beams would actually be decent fog lights, I think... Maybe I could put a 90mm low beam in one side and a 90mm high beam in the other...

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:25 am

Cool, thanks. I may try this. How durable are the lenses on them vrg3? Pretty good or do you think they would need some kind of cover?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:37 am

I dunno... they seem rather lightweight to me, though that may just be because the metal housings are magnesium. It would probably be best to protect them at least with a clear film. I don't know if you can purchase replacement lenses or not.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:46 pm

vrg3: Thats backwards, the lights have to be on when the normal lights are on and turn off when the high beams are active. The strange thing is that you have to completely remove them if they dont work, at least in CA.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:10 pm

ciper, what you said is true of fog lights. Driving lights are a different matter. In most states, driving lights can only be on when the high beams are already on. I don't know about California's laws in particular. It may be possible that driving lights are illegal on California roads.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:08 am

yeah my driving lights had some fancy wiring and how you're supposed to wire them.....i threw that shit out and wired them up how I wanted

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:35 am

Well, Josh, it really doesn't make any sense to wire them in any way other than to make them work only when the high beams are on... Driving lights are auxiliary high beams by definition, and you do want them to cut off if for any reason you dim your headlights.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:13 am

On my old GL sedan i had it wired so the fogs (Hella 550s) were completely independent of the other lights. I could drive in the rain at night with just the fogs. Sometimes this was useful due to weather other times to mess up people who were riding my a$$. Could see pretty well up to around 90 with them (I eat my carrots).

Steve

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:56 am

If your fog lights alone allow you to travel safely above about 15 miles per hour, they're either not fog lights (the 550s were also made as driving lights) or they're aimed way wrong.

The way I usually wire fog lights is so they'll come on only if the parking lights are on (so they turn off if you turn your lights completely off, but you can still use them in situations where your headlights would cause too much glare). Optionally I'll have them cut off automatically when high beams come on, but that's only if the inspection guy makes me.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:22 am

not sure I follow you vrg3.....

these are the ones I have http://fet-usa.com/products/xlo.html

I may have them aimed improperly.....but they are aimed to throw light directly in front of the car.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:44 am

First let me tell you I'm biased against Catz, just like I'm biased against PIAA. Both manufacturers generally cater to the market segment with too much money and not enough knowledge. Most Catz products are really crappy but very well marketed.

Anyway...

That page is a little unclear about these lights... All the ones except CZL-168 are driving lights, but the CZL-168 description says both driving and fog.

I dunno... I haven't seen these lights in person, and haven't seen their beam pattern, but even if I didn't know the manufacturer I'd say they don't look like well-engineered pieces to me. For one thing, the confusion about the CZL-168s... for another, it doesn't make any sense to make driving lights in any color other than clear, unless you're marketing to people who don't know what they're buying. Also the claim that "70W = 90W" is always dubious... it may be true that they're using freeform reflectors to get more light out there, but that doesn't mean marketing like equating different wattage numbers is sound.

I do like, though, that they include relays with the installation kit... so many aftermarket lights don't include this important part of the wiring.

Unless you have the CZL-168s, you need to treat them as driving lights, even if they're not great ones. They supplement your high beams. They're meant to be used only when there is no other traffic (in the same or in the opposite direction) present. If you have the CZL-168s I don't know what to think.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:31 am

I have the xlo's.

They are not setup to only run with high beams......I got them quite a while ago......and they serve the purpose I got them for.

I will make one other comment......being an engineer....we typically want to design everything to last forever, be as close to perfect, and be as robust as possible. Using that in an automotive analogy......if that were the case, we'd all be driving around in vehicles that cost several million dollars

Then reality steps in and compromises must be made. I'm not saying the catz are the best, but they are certainly better then no additional lighting with the crappy headlights provided on the car. Untill myself or someone else decides to design and build a different setup using better lights......this will have to hold me over.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:04 am

Legacy777 wrote:I have the xlo's.

Yeah, but which ones? The page you linked to lists 8 different XLO lamps.

They are not setup to only run with high beams......I got them quite a while ago......and they serve the purpose I got them for.

What purpose is that?

I will make one other comment......being an engineer....we typically want to design everything to last forever, be as close to perfect, and be as robust as possible. Using that in an automotive analogy......if that were the case, we'd all be driving around in vehicles that cost several million dollars ;)

Heh, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Perfect engineering is an ideal, not a practice.

Then reality steps in and compromises must be made. I'm not saying the catz are the best, but they are certainly better then no additional lighting with the crappy headlights provided on the car. Untill myself or someone else decides to design and build a different setup using better lights......this will have to hold me over.

Yes, almost anything is better than relying on the piss-poor stock lamps alone.

But if you're using these lights in traffic, you're probably blinding a lot of your poor fellow drivers...

There are many better lights (fog and driving) available for similar amounts of money, though. You do already own these, though, so that's kind of a sunk cost...

But what you really need is neither a fog light nor a driving light. You need an auxiliary low beam. There's only one good one that I know of: the Hella XL.

http://www.rapidparts.com/Pages/vwc030p.html

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:42 am

I've got these CL-165 XLO Driving Lamps Hyper White

purpose was to provide more light directly in front of the car.....I'd say most of the light is probably 10-20 ft or so from the bumper......not positive on distance....I'm a bad judge by just looking at something.

Most likely I'm improperly aiming these.....but as you said....if I aim the bastards up real far, I'll blind on-coming traffic.

Maybe I should've picked up a different setup of lights, but money is spent and I'm not spending more on another set of lights.

These work....al-beit eventhough they are probably mis-adjusted.....they do what I wanted them to do, shine light directly in front of the car.

I think I have some pics of the beam pattern in front of the car.....lemme look.

These aren't the best pics.....however they're pics http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... ages/catz/

I have adjusted them since those pics, The housing on the one was fubared. I contacted catz and they sent me a new one. I'd have to get current new pics to see how everything is now.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:57 am

Ah, okay, I see what you're doing... You have driving lights but aimed them low enough that they won't directly blind people... that's not too bad. It still probably causes a lot of glare, but probably not worse than OEM GM headlamps. :)

Be aware that it can be actually detrimental rather than beneficial to throw too much light directly in front of the car. It makes things that are further away harder to see, while at the same time tricking your visual system into believing it can see better than it can. That's one of the reasons it's not recommended to cruise at night with fog lights on in good weather.

It's hard to argue with the fact that it would cost you $0 to keep these lights... but, dude, just hawk these Catz lights on eBay and save up like $30 more for Hella XLs... the XLs are quite nice. They're basically like having an extra set of headlights.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 12:40 am

ehh....I'll keep what I got.....It's not so much the money issue as it is just having to screw around with everything again.....

If I do anything I will get a set of europeon (sp) lights with the better projector.....or will look into custom fabbing something to use better lights.

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Good or bad idea?

Good or bad idea?