Update- Rough idle Fully cured!

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afterthisnap
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Update- Rough idle Fully cured!

Post by afterthisnap »

My newly acquired 90 legacy ran great cold, but when it warmed up the rpms dropped to ~400 and the idle got lumpy and irregular.
It only got this way after warming up, so when I initially test drove it I didn't really catch it.
It ran like a top on the highway, and when I came to stop I thought the car had died because it was idling so smoothly. Then, about 10 seconds into sitting at a light, the rpms dropped just a hair and the car would get all burbly again. It got so bad sometimes that I probably couldn't have held a cup of coffee without spilling it.

My HVAC system is on the fritz, but when the AC does kick on it totally kills the lumpy idle and becomes smooth as glass. The car ran though an emissions test with flying colors. Oddly enough, during the 5 minutes of the test after I shut the AC off, the car idled fine. Normally the burbly idle comes back as soon as I turn off AC. My CEL never came on.

*I changed the spark plugs- the old ones looked fine if but a little worn- No change
*I checked for spark by pulling the wires at the plugs with the engine running- they shot huge sparks out of each end.
*I used enough propane to BBQ a buffalo in searching for vacuum leaks- none found
*Did the grounding mod- no change in idle, but the car runs better in some way I can't pinpoint.
*Changed the coolant temp sensor with cpu reset- immediate change, but the idle still got intermittently lumpy at stoplights. Watching the tailpipe, the exhaust would burble noticeably every 5-15 seconds at random (as opposed to burbling constantly)
*PVC valve replaced- no change
*Air filter and MAF cleaning- no change.
*I replaced the fuel filter and filled the new one with seafoam before installing it. The gas coming out of the old filter inlet looked like dirty coolant. There was an immediate change in the idle, but it still burbled at random every 15 seconds or so but less "hard" than before.
*I read that leaky intake manifold gaskets may be a culprit. Even though I searched with propane I couldn't find a leak, but If I manually revved the engine I could hear a hiss open up somewhere around the front pass side of the valve cover. So I took out an intake manifold bolt out one at a time, lubed it with anti-sieze, and reinstalled at 1/2 torque, then went around and did a final torque to spec.
That pretty much gave me a 90% improvement overall in the idle smoothness. It's still doesn't hold that "smooth as glass" sensation after 10 seconds at a light, but it doesn't feel like the engine is trying to shake itself apart.

Curiously, the front pass side manifold bolt was oil drenched at the threads. All the other bolts were dry.


While I was poking around the engine (waiting for paint to dry), I found that the engine leaked 2 or 3 oz of oil over 3 days. There is engine oil dripping down the passenger exhaust, and the exhaust bolts are dripping with oil. The skid/crossmember between the engine and tranny are thoroughly oil-drenched too. The driver side doesn't have a leak.
The valve covers were caked over in grime, so I cleaned them up and ran a rag around the gasket. I didn't find any leakage that would lead to this much oil dripping onto the exhaust. There is also some oil resting on the bottom of the passenger side of the timing cover.

The service records show the oil was changed about 1k ago, and it seems like the engine is at least a half-quart overfilled. The receipt has a note of a leak at the rear of the oil pan, but it actually doesn't appear to be leaking from there, and a pan leak wouldn't explain oil dripping from the exhaust bolts.

I'm hoping excess oil is just being shot out somewhere as opposed to say, a rear main seal leaking. Is this a common leak?
I'm about to drive this thing 2k miles so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Here are some pics:
Image
Image
Last edited by afterthisnap on Tue May 15, 2012 8:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
wtdash
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Re: Rough idle partially cured / Oil leak ID.

Post by wtdash »

Hi,
RE: the idle - search on here for IAC cleaning...it may help.

RE: oil leak...when I read you had oil on the front pass. IM bolt I immediately thought 'Oil sender'. ...did you notice it leaking there behind/near the PS pump? Then the next thought was PS pump....they seem to leak somewhat regularly, and you can buy a rebuild kit. I'd also suspect the cam seal and/or crank seal causing the extra oil you see.

Most likely need to clean it real well to tell the source, since you said it was 'caked over in grime'...BTW, you can buy a new valve cover gasket most anywhere...sounds like it's needed, too.

On the back of the engine the rear cam seals and the separator/baffle plate are known 'leakers'....the main seal - not so much.

GL<
Td
Turbo Subies:
'87 GL-10 Turbo - SOLD
'90 BJ EJ22T/DOHC & 5speed swap - SOLD
'04 FXT, Forged internals, VF39, STI TMIC, Cobb AP- SOLD
'93 Legacy SS - 5-speed, SOLD :-(
'02 WRX -SOLD
'96 BD-turbo'd-SOLD
'98 SF - NA-T
afterthisnap
In Neutral
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Re: Rough idle partially cured / Oil leak ID.

Post by afterthisnap »

Word.
Thanks for the tips. I'll take a peek for leaks behind the PS pump this afternoon.

I forgot that I already tried cleaning the IAC, first with carb cleaner and then with Seafoam. Plenty of smoke but no improvement in the way the engine ran.
I did 160 highway miles last night and it ran great, idle was a little rough when I got back to the city but at least it was consistent.
SiCkSTi04
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Re: Rough idle partially cured / Oil leak ID.

Post by SiCkSTi04 »

Yea, hit the underside with some brake cleaner, plastic putty knife (for the cakes on stuff) and rags. only then you're really know where the leaks are coming from.
-04 WRX STi - Java Black Pearl - Cobb Stage 2
-02 Forester Type S premium - Platinum Silver Metallic - Stock
-92 Legacy Sport Sedan - Onyx Black Pearl - Stock
afterthisnap
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Re: Rough idle partially cured / Oil leak ID.

Post by afterthisnap »

It was definitely the valve cover gaskets. The old ones were pulled today and they broke apart like twigs.
No leakage from the sender or the PS pump.

I drove ~3100 miles in about 4 days and the car was a champ on the highway. The thin mountain air in Utah sucked the pep out of the engine though. I forgot about the need for ultra low octane here. I filled up at 400 miles into a tank and generally put 12 gallons in before the tank topped out. Is that unusually good gas mileage?

Thanks for the help.
afterthisnap
In Neutral
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:21 pm

Re: Rough idle partially cured / Oil leak ID.

Post by afterthisnap »

Update- it was the driver side injectors. The poor idling is now 100% fixed.

All winter the idle was OK but never totally smooth. When the weather recently warmed into the 70s the engine started to burble really bad at idle. GFs sister borrowed the car and complained that it was "death-shaky".

Another fuel filter full of seafoam helped for a few days but even then the idle was still bad and I was afraid I bought a lemon.I checked the TPS and adjusted according the FSM. Then I checked the resistance at the injectors and the 2 pass side were both ok at ~12ohms, the driver sides were both in the 40 ohm range.

I bought 2 remanufactured injectors from Ebay for $45 a piece (instead of $179 locally), checked the resistance and (after 3 hours trying to pop the old ones out) popped them into the fuel rail.

The car has never idled so well! My girlfriend initially kept thinking the engine died at stoplights because the engine holds a glass smooth idle.

For good measure I switched out the Bosch platinum single tips for some NGK power Vs and wires (The platinum tips on the Bosch plugs looked like they had already "blown out" after 15k miles.
jp233
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Re: Update- Rough idle Fully cured!

Post by jp233 »

Good job, great you found the real root cause of the problem, and thanks for posting back.

Yeah, getting old injectors out of the rails that have been in there for 20 years and gone through a million heat cycles, can be a real peach.

Curious -- what mileage was on this car when it started idling so bad w/ the injectors going awry?
12 Outback 3.6R Limited
94 Leg LS wag AWD, sold
93 Leg L wag FWD, sold
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afterthisnap
In Neutral
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:21 pm

Re: Update- Rough idle Fully cured!

Post by afterthisnap »

The car was purchased with ~155k and only idled poorly when the engine warmed. I didn't really notice it when I took it for a test drive.

It was at 175k when things were rumbly at any temp/octane.



I'm glad someone shares my pain in getting the old injectors out!
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