My ej22t build.....Hopefully

[jyrine]

So as greenhorn as I might be about messing with the inner working of my Legacy, I already have sugarplums dancing in my head of what I want to do to it.

For starters, I'm going to simply install my new transmission and rear diff (blew out my stock trans at 260,XXX miles and going to a JDM RS 4.11 gearbox so getting a 4.11 LSD to go along) and then keeping my engine as is, which is:
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Hallman Pro RX boost controller
Group N engine mounts
KYB GR2 struts and new top mounts
Full 3" custom turbo-back exhaust. Helix catless bellmouth downpipe
TD05-16g turbo
2007 WRX intercooler installed with Samco hoses
JECS MAF
440cc injectors, cleaned and flowtested with new o-rings
RevTronix Stage II chip, tuned for up to 17psi of boost
Exedy WRX clutch
EvoScan USB datalogging cable and RevScan software

Now the reason I say that it's staying the way it is, is because I want to build a separate drivetrain to "simply" swap in, so I can work on my new drivetrain while I still drive my Legacy. The composition of which is going to be:
1. STI 6 speed with matching half-shafts, rear diff, clutch and flywheel.
2. Auto legacy Driveshaft.
3. STI brakes
4. STI hubs (to change 5x114.3 bolt pattern)

As for the engine, I've been reading some threads:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... hp#p353031
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... ge#p206708
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... rt#p294345
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... ng#p239966
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38247
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=41519url

And I've come to the conclusion, I have no idea what to do.

My goal for the motor is a safe, responsive, and usable 400whp....And maybe sorta ok MPG (if possible).
This is what I was thinking:
1. EJ22T (boiled, machined, blueprinted and balanced with everything mentioned)
2. Wiseco forged Pistons and Rods (cosworth forged pistons IF the stroker 2.0L [thus 2.2L] pistons work)
3. EJ20G or EJ20K heads (I don't know if either of these are non-interface, I'd like to keep the motor non-interface but if I can't with either then I'd go EJ20K heads).
4. Delta Cams (cosworth WRX cams if they work, since the EJ20G/K heads are designed for 2.0L cams anyway)
5. Forged crankshaft (Cosworth STI crankshaft 79mm stroke - Light weight Billet Steel if it fits)
6. Cosworth Kevlar Timing Belt
7. Cosworth Cylinder Head Stud (if they fit)
8. Cosworth Dry Sump Kit
9. Cosworth Oil filler cap
10. Cosworth Billet Timing Belt Guide
11. Cosworth Billet Cam Angle Sensor Bracket
12. Cosworth 2.0L Valve Springs
13. Cosworth High Volume Inlet Manifold
14. Cosworth Front-Mount Intercooler System
15. Megasquirt ECU tuned for 20-25psi of boost
16. TD05-20G turbo at least (or Garrett turbo, preferably but not necessarily something twinscroll)
17. 1000cc injectors (unless I don't need anything that big for this build)
18. Perrin Lightweight Crank Pulley
19. Group N Motor Mounts
20. Group N Transmission Mount
21. Group N Pitch Stop Mount
22. end thrust bearing conversion as opposed to center thrust (and I guess its fitting this is item 22...lol)


I THINK that covers everything I want to do. Mind you I don't know at all if all these things can work with each other, or if there are better options, or equal options for less. This is just my imaginary list of what if, and its here for you guys to dissect and judge.

One final thing:
I don't want to just get a WRX or an STI. I like my little legacy, its a good trooper, and even if its the same cost as an STI (tuned or stock), I'd rather make this little thing as strong as possible to both blow the doors off WRX's and STI's and to just have fun with it.

[wtdash]

HI,
You've got a nice stable of cars (in your Sig).

I'm not much help on the engine build, other than to point out the crankshaft and rods are forged on the stock EJ22T - but can understand upgrading w/it torn apart anyway. And if you want to really make a solid short block talk to Dan Benson. He's got a good rep and knows Subarus - 600+ HP.

The DOHC heads are all interference - valves can collide, AFAIK. I'm not sure about valve/piston interference w/the EJ20/EJ25D heads....probably depends on the pistons used??

The 20G turbo might be undersized for 400hp (as you stated - "at least"), based on a quick looksee over on NASIOC, but will depend on the tune. This LIST shows some ratings for different turbos.

Sounds like a cool project - Have Fun,
Td

[randomiam]

Hmm. I would start off with a higher displacement block like a 257.. or if you really are gonna go full standalone- and rebuild a motor entirely to that extent; Why not a EG33?

I'm pretty sure our rods aren't forged (EJ22T), but STI ones are (I don't know the details down to a T).

[jyrine]

Hmm. I would start off with a higher displacement block like a 257.. or if you really are gonna go full standalone- and rebuild a motor entirely to that extent; Why not a EG33?

I'm pretty sure our rods aren't forged (EJ22T), but STI ones are (I don't know the details down to a T).

An EJ22T is closed deck, a 257 is not. If I got a cosworth STI block I'd go that route, but no reason to put 14K into a shortblock when I can get an entire 22T for like $600. Also an EJ22T block can handle 30PSI, whereas I can't imagine that a 257 without sleeves at least could do that. Anyways, .3 Liters isn't exactly a massive difference, I might go the 2.35L stroker route if need be, and that'd close the gap between displacement even more.

And an EG33 isn't closed deck either. I've thought about it, but finding those blocks are harder than a 22T, are open deck, and were never factory designed for boost. On top of the fact I couldn't get a forged crank or really good heads. There is more aftermarket availability for an EJ.

And I believe you are correct stock ej22t rods are not forged, but the pistons are, just not nearly enough to handle 20PSI+

HI,
You've got a nice stable of cars (in your Sig).

I'm not much help on the engine build, other than to point out the crankshaft and rods are forged on the stock EJ22T - but can understand upgrading w/it torn apart anyway. And if you want to really make a solid short block talk to Dan Benson. He's got a good rep and knows Subarus - 600+ HP.

The DOHC heads are all interference - valves can collide, AFAIK. I'm not sure about valve/piston interference w/the EJ20/EJ25D heads....probably depends on the pistons used??

The 20G turbo might be undersized for 400hp (as you stated - "at least"), based on a quick looksee over on NASIOC, but will depend on the tune. This LIST shows some ratings for different turbos.

Sounds like a cool project - Have Fun,
Td

Well thanks, and I'll definitely look into contacting Dan. See if he can help me with some of this.

In that case, I'll probably use EJ20K heads, if it isn't noticeable yet, I am going for a pseudo EJ22G motor.

The 20G might not, I guess it will depend on how much HP the block puts out without boost. But I definitely see some other options in that list you provided. That's a great start to figuring out what parts I need.

[randomiam]

Well, some of the information is still a bit off. The EJ22T Pistons are cast & coated, not forged. The EJ257 is not an open deck block but instead a semi closed. There are way more EJ257 blocks out there making this kind of power than there are EJ22T.

I think I would ask, what kind of power band do you want from the engine?

The EJ22T DOHC combo would require a larger turbo than a EJ257 longblock option to make similar power--> larger turbo - more spool -- more power in the higher rpms etc.

[jyrine]

Well, some of the information is still a bit off. The EJ22T Pistons are cast & coated, not forged. The EJ257 is not an open deck block but instead a semi closed. There are way more EJ257 blocks out there making this kind of power than there are EJ22T.

I think I would ask, what kind of power band do you want from the engine?

The EJ22T DOHC combo would require a larger turbo than a EJ257 longblock option to make similar power--> larger turbo - more spool -- more power in the higher rpms etc.

Thank you for the correction on the pistons, I wasn't 100% on that.
I never said the 257 was open, I know its semi-closed, still not fully closed.
Yes there are but those have a habit of blowing up, but a lot of 22T's with the DOHC swap are making 300whp-ish without using anything much bigger than a stock turbo.
A 257 longblock is still more expensive than a 22T with a head swap.

In other words a 257 longblock is simply out of the question. I don't care for them and the initial expense for engine is almost the same price as my car. Why waste money on a lesser block?

[Legacy777]

I guess my first question is what kind of budget do you have or do you have a ballpark that you'd like to stay in? Are you including tuning costs in this budget and are you planning to build the motor and do all the work yourself?

With a goal of 400 whp, your motor is very close to making 450 crank hp. I know it's dyno dependent, but at the dyno I had my Legacy tuned, stock STi's rated at 300 chp were putting down 250 hp. I guess the point I'm making is to build a 400 whp engine, you should aim to build a 450 chp motor. I'm not saying an ej22t can't be built to make that kind of power, but I honestly doubt there are that many people running the ej22t and making 400 whp.

I guess one other question, what are your plans for this car? Is it going to be raced or rallied? I ask because to make that kind of power, you're going to need a good sized turbo. It will likely have a decent amount of lag and your power band is going to be all in the top end. If this is going to be a street driven car it may not have the power characteristics you're looking for.

I'm not trying to poo poo on your plans, but rather asking questions to ensure you've thought about some of these obsticles.

[jyrine]

I guess my first question is what kind of budget do you have or do you have a ballpark that you'd like to stay in? Are you including tuning costs in this budget and are you planning to build the motor and do all the work yourself?

With a goal of 400 whp, your motor is very close to making 450 crank hp. I know it's dyno dependent, but at the dyno I had my Legacy tuned, stock STi's rated at 300 chp were putting down 250 hp. I guess the point I'm making is to build a 400 whp engine, you should aim to build a 450 chp motor. I'm not saying an ej22t can't be built to make that kind of power, but I honestly doubt there are that many people running the ej22t and making 400 whp.

I guess one other question, what are your plans for this car? Is it going to be raced or rallied? I ask because to make that kind of power, you're going to need a good sized turbo. It will likely have a decent amount of lag and your power band is going to be all in the top end. If this is going to be a street driven car it may not have the power characteristics you're looking for.

I'm not trying to poo poo on your plans, but rather asking questions to ensure you've thought about some of these obsticles.

I have a "do steps as I go" philosophy. As in, I'm going to do all the driveline setup before I start the motor, then, i'm going to get the motor. Then, the stuff that's considered bolt on, then the rest. That way if the project comes to the point where I can't finish it financially, physically, or for some other reason, I can just run with what I have, and sell what I can't use anymore.

I agree many aren't. But many are running EJ22T's at 300whp-350whp. Same for the EJ20G's and EJ20K's. a tuned STI runs similar numbers, so really either could make the 400whp I want, I'd just rather use the older block (because cheaper and imo better).

The car is going to be 70% street, 25% rally, and 5% auto/circuit/drag. Basically like any daily driven performance car, just with a little focus on its rally heritage.
You're right about the power characteristics. Right now my car is probably making 280bhp and 220whp. It feels like full boost is around 3500rpm, which for a TD05-16g is about right. With the correct engine mods I figure I can get a TD05-20g to perform similarly. Part of the reason I want a twin scroll is to avoid the lag, but I'd rather make less WHP and have a better powerband, I'm also not against doing a Twin charge and strapping a supercharger into the mix in a parallel system to help responsiveness.
Basically, I'd rather have both responsive driving characteristics and 400whp, but am willing to drop the power to keep a similar driving characteristic to what I have now.

[Legacy777]

Ok, I agree that finishing all the other stuff before the motor is a good process, that's what I did as well. That too will give you time to work out the details on the motor.

[jyrine]

Ok, I agree that finishing all the other stuff before the motor is a good process, that's what I did as well. That too will give you time to work out the details on the motor.

Yeah I figured that would be best too. And if my priorities change it will allow me to just tune my motor without going into a full new build.

But I'm still curious on what people think of the list, how it'd work, and what'd they change.....So.....Anyone else got input.