to go forged or not to go forged? that is my qtion!

[scruff]

Hey there,

So I resently purchased a 94 ss with 194,plus miles and am set on a rebuild. As of now it runs, I wont say good as i have not accually had the pleasure of driving it because the car needs lots of work, thinking about the motor for now!! So my qtion is: Is there any down falls to forged internals? Im considering wiseco pistons, and eagle rods, or posibley STI rods, acl race barrings and arp studs all new seals, pumps, and anything else to get the ej22t to as close to brand new as possible.

I have read and researched on every forum i can for the last 4 or 5 months, saved money and am now ready to begin my project. Any and all help, suggestions, and critisism welcome!!

Once again any down falls to forged guts in my ej22t short block?

scruff

[wtdash]

Hi and Welcome!

The experts will answer, too...but when I had forged internals installed in my Forester XT the main concerns were noise and longevity. Read a post HERE about the pitfalls of forged pistons.

You need to pick a goal for your HP/Torque #'s...as in 300, 400, or more....so you know what type of piston, rods, bearings, etc. you'll ultimately need. Of course, you can only get to maybe 200 (wheel HP) w/the stock ECU; 300 if you go the Rob Tune route w/ EJ25 or EJ20 DOHC heads. More than that is standalone EM.

Td

[scruff]

My tq/hp is not too much to start out, like 220/220 or close just to start until i get the drive train of the car upto being able to handle 300+, ei brakes, susp., bushings, tires, tran., you know. Also all the needed bolt on goodies. Then i would like to go the rob tune route. I like the stock heads torque so building them is going to be dune soon too. TORQUE, low and mid is my fortay!! At least as of today! Just want to be able to grow later and not tare the bottom end apart.

thanks for yer qwik reply!!

scruff

[Mister Anderson]

For those goals I would seriously look into a STI short block. You can get them for around 1,800 new. https://www.flatironstuning.com/p-970-2 ... block.aspx

[scruff]

Hell of a deal! thought about it but naa, not for me. I have the ej22t and am gonna rebuild it.

[scruff]

So, you said noise and longevity, and Ive read that in many threads, what exactly does that mean? How loud? Is it piston slape or? As far as longevity how much diff are we talkin? Does it wearout the case, bearings, pistons or? As far as miles is it ruffly half the miles? I understand there many many variables but just looking for a ruff estament. Thanks for yer time

[mike-tracy]

Most built motors don't make it to 100k miles. If you dig really deeply through the forums, I'd wager you'll find most don't even last 25k. Mine lasted ~40k, though it spun a bearing due to a problem I had with the intake setup (it ran lean at full boost for a small amount of time) and not a fault of the longblock.

[scruff]

hmm, WoW
thanks i was not aware thats all the mileage one would get. I def. got some more figuring out to do! thats exactly what i needed to hear or read. thanks again

you havent heard the last of me!

[mike-tracy]

It depends on many, many variables. Builder and tuner's skill probably play the biggest role, as well as how the owner treats and maintains it. If you drop $5k+ on a built engine (for example) and run it at "only" 300 whp or so on a good tune, it'll likely last a long time.

But... 300whp is something the stock engine can handle also, with cams, turbo, injectors and engine management.

You asked about noise with forged internals. I have wiseco pistons in mine, and they are low expansion types. Can't handle as much boost as high expansion types, but they are only noisy till the car warms up. The high expanding types need more piston-to-wall clearance, but can handle way more boost. I've heard them on other peoples cars, and they are disturbingly loud - like something is broken lol.

[Legacy777]

I'm not sure which type of the Wiseco pistons I have, but I really do not have any added start up noise compared to stock. I was really quite surprised. So either I got a good combo/setup between the pistons & machine work or maybe I got lucky.

[scruff]

I like the idea of wiseco pistons bumping up the comp.ratio
but how much off boost drivability does it affect? is the other pistons that will bump it up, that arnt forged?

[wtdash]

Higher CR should make it more 'lively' off boost.

You could put 2.2 NA pistons in it....but why would you put non-forged in?

One thing to remember is the EJ22T/EJ20G ECUs are NOT as 'smart' as the current generation computers. Current turbo models (not just Subies) have 10:1 or more CR w/their Direct Injection and sophisticated electronics so they can avoid knock and not blow up.....the old Subies do not.

[scruff]

I guess the only reason I wouldnt have forged installed would be longevity. My plan was to go wiseco pistons and eagle or sti rods, I just wanted to see if there was any big down falls, besides the price, but i dont mind paying for quallity! So you are saying a higher compression ratio is better? I see 22t builds goin with custom pistons at 9:1,
i just wasnt sure i wanted to spend that much. idk just tryin to figure out what i want. thanks fer the help!!

[wtdash]

Hi,
Turbo engines, @ least of our vintage, are designed to run a lower CR vs. an NA/non-turbo to allow for more boost.

So...higher CR isn't better unless you have someway to manage it...our stock ECUs - and even the Rob Tune - aren't designed to run much higher than the stock 8:1 CR. A custom build with 9:1 CR is likely running some kind of aftermarket EM (engine management).

But a forged piston does allow higher CR as it's designed to 'take the abuse'....you'll need to do more research on what's acceptable.

TD

[scruff]

Def. goin to continue to reasure! thanks fer taking the time to answer some questions, (that im sure youv all answered hundreds of times)