Rebuild EJ22T, Buy Rebuilt EJ257, or buy low mile EJ20G?

[BoneIslandScooby]

So I started my car yesterday, and it cranked up just fine. However, as I was getting on my way to work it started shaking terribly. It didn't stop running, didn't smoke, no loud clanking, but it did shake like hell. There has been a slight ticking sound in the engine, but I figured this was normal boxer stuff or lifters . I just recently changed the oil and had the compression tested. I had 155 psi on the passenger side cylinders and 160 on both driver side cylinders. So my best guess is I spun a bearing. Anyway, was wondering what the best route would be. New STI shortblock, low mile EJ20G, or just rebuilding what I have. I like the idea of just doing a whole engine swap because it seems to be less work, but you can't beat 0 miles.

[BoneIslandScooby]

...and on that note what else should I take care of while I'm doing that without breaking the bank. BTW, saw an EJ257 shortblock for about 1700 and an EJ20G for 1300. How much does it typically cost to have an engine rebuilt? How about just machine work and I put it together?

[James614]

IIRC you can throw the 257 short block in with no changes probably the easiest route to go. And you gain torque across the entire powerband.

[86BRATMAN]

If you're still running ej22t heads I'd stay away from the 257 shortblock as you'll wind up with 10.2:1 compression.

[kimokalihi]

Sounds like you're running on 2 or 3 cylinders. Have you checked your ignition system? You can hear a spun bearing.

[BoneIslandScooby]

I would love it if that was the case. What does a spun bearing or rod knock sound like?

[BoneIslandScooby]

I just checked the coil wires. The boots on the driver's side looked like they had backed out a little. I pushed in the wires a bit then started it again. Same thing. It shakes at idle and up. No clang clank knock bump nor squeak. No smoke. Just the shake. It doesn't mind revving either, though it does shake. No, I have not actually revved it to redline or anywhere near that. I've just gone gently from idle to 2500.

[James614]

Have you checked all the plugs? That should tell you if you're missing on one or more cylinders.

[BoneIslandScooby]

They were recently removed and replaced to do the compression test. They all looked fine, even though they did have a rusty color on them. I had a guy doing some work on the car for me, and he asked me if I might have a blown head gasket. I explained that I haven't had any overheating nor loss of compression, and that I'm not losing coolant. My temperature stays rock solid in the middle of the gauge once the car warms up. The weather is pretty hot here, so I'm pretty sure a blown head gasket would have shown some symptoms by now. He then asked me if I had used any fuel additives and I told him that I had just recently used a gas station octane booster. That was around April 10. Then I ran an autocross on Sunday April 13, driving 27 miles to and from. I've been driving it since without a hitch, until yesterday. I'll check the spark plugs later. I'll pull one boot at a time and look for a spark as I crank it and/or let it idle to see if I'm getting spark to all cylinders. If everything looks fine there, I'll pull the plugs themselves, inspect them, and replace them to see if it makes a difference.

[robertpaige]

If you spun a bearing you would be hearing noise associated with it. It sounds like your coilpack, wires, or some other electrical issues are happening.

[BoneIslandScooby]

Two more things to add to the clues here. The nipple on the intake silencer that connects to a vacuum hose to the boost control solenoid is broken off and the hole in the intake silencer is open, not plugged. The vacuum hose is also open and not plugged. My engine oil level is normal, possibly a bit high. The oil smells like gasoline. I found this blurb online:

"BUBBA, you are BRILLIANT to have noticed this problem. If your oil smells like gas, then your engin eis running WAY TOO RICH> Unburnt gas is slipping past your rings and into the oil pan and mixing with the engine oil. HERE IS WHAT TO DO. You have a THROTTLE BODY and IDLE AIR CONTROL VALVE on the top of your engine. THe chances are high that these tiems are clogged up with sludgy engine oil and not able to fine tune your air/fuel mixture. Over time, this will aggrevate your O2 sensors and cause converter troubles. Have your IAC valve thoroughly cleaned with SEAFOAM or AMSOIL FOAMING cleaner and rinse with Gumout. Do the same for your THROTTLE BODY. Run these cleaners through your PCV valve and ALL engine vacuum ports. This will expell carbon and deposits out your tail pipe and clean the converter. Your engine should run a LOT better now. and extra gas should STOP mixing with your engine oil."

Does that sound like it could be part, if not all, of my problem?

[robertpaige]

That could somewhat be right. The biggest thing is that if you found a bad/broken vacuum line that could easily cause bad idle and shaking. Fix that, and report back.

[BoneIslandScooby]

Only thing is, I know the BCS vacuum line nipple has been broken since I've been driving it. I don't know why all the shaking now, when it's been that way all along.

By the way, it idles just fine. It even settles down into a low idle at 1000 RPM or lower. It's just shaking the whole time.

Also, I could have inadvertently over-revved the engine during the autocross. Again, however, I have not felt nor heard any effects of anything until the morning before last.

[Nohbdy]

This is just a thought could it maybe be a broken engine mount? I mean if it's not bolted down like it should, in theory, cause a bad shake. Again just a thought I could have no idea what I'm talking about either.

[kimokalihi]

Have you pulled each plug wire off one at a time to see if its running on all four? If one or more make no difference in how its idling then its not firing those cylinders. The engine should stumble when you pull each wire and noticeably idle differently. Probably shaky.

[BoneIslandScooby]

I'm pretty sure its a rod. I think it's developing a sound. I won't mess with it anymore until I get a shortblock. God forbid I start scoring a cylinder or damage the crank, rods, or block, just because I'm trying to chase down an electrical problem that isn't there. I will check the motor mounts before I dive in, just to be sure.

I found a shortblock for a good price, and I'll have time to prep it well before it gets swapped in. Then I will have a spare shortblock. Any recommendations on rebuild kits and additional maintenance or prep to do while I swap in the shortblock? I want to replace all bearings and piston rings at the very least. If cylinders look OK, I will leave them alone. Should I consider decking the block? ARP rod bolts and main studs should be a good idea and cheap insurance, right? Oh, one thing about the block. One of the threads for a head bolt was stripped out, is this a good opportunity to have it tapped for head studs, or should I just helicoil it and call it a day? Do I mess with the heads at all? New timing belt, even though it was likely changed about 19,000 miles ago?

Which is a good retailer to find all this stuff?

[James614]

If you're swapping in a short block anyway, why would you be worried about damaging it? I feel its always good to determine the cause of issues if possible, you may find something that can save you a short block in the future.

[BoneIslandScooby]

I'd rather be left with a spare shortblock in rebuildable condition to either keep or resell, rather than be left with a worthless hunk of scrap. I don't want it to all of the sudden go "CLANK" and a rod came out of the side of the block. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but I imagine it could possibly happen.

[James614]

That's not gonna happen from just pulling plugs. Rods go through blocks from things like mis-shifts and severe detonation. Pulling plugs throws it off balance, but doesn't put terrible stress on the engine.

[BoneIslandScooby]

I don't mean damage from pulling the plugs. If I thought the rotating assembly was fine I wouldn't hesitate to do so. I mean, I now think the rotating assembly already has some damage. I don't want to keep running it to find an electrical issue when I am pretty sure I have a rod clunking, and I do not want to compound the damage. I don't know why it happened, but I'm pretty sure something let loose. It probably let loose during the autocross, but only gradually started working its way looser over the past few weeks. I ran it this morning to see if I could pinpoint the problem and the shake seemed to get worse, and it seems to be starting to make a sound. I'm pretty sure I felt some tapping. Not ticking, tapping. The next step is knocking, and the one after that is clanking. I don't want to get to that step.

[James614]

OK, that makes sense to me.

[BoneIslandScooby]

So back to the original question. Rebuilt EJ257, budget freshening of EJ22T that has forged pistons and stock everything else, or Low mile (Typical JDM) 40 - 60,000 KM (or is it miles) EJ20G?

Recommendations on rebuilding or freshening the EJ22T? Which parts to replace, sources, additional maintenance?

[James614]

My vote goes to the EJ20G. Its more involved than a short block swap, but oh so fun. I don't know what the typically mileage truly is, but mine was in better shape than any 90s engine had any right to be

[BoneIslandScooby]

I'm already swapping turbos, computer, downpipe, injectors, fuel rails, MAF, etc. Going RobTune 550 whenever this work is done. The timing couldn't have been any better. Do you know how pissed I'd be if I went through the trouble of installing all those parts and THEN it decides to throw a rod?

[BoneIslandScooby]

Rod bolts are $100 more or less. Head studs are 200 and some. Rings? Bearings $70? Main bolts were like $400???!!!