is there an easy way to a reliable 300whp on a legacy sport?

LegacySport4L · Post by **LegacySport4L** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:26 pm

yup i was thinking that's the way to go. the 18g with the 90 degree inlet seems about the right size for my needs. I'm pondering the tdo5 vs. tdo6 now.

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:54 pm

LegacySport4L wrote:yup i was thinking that's the way to go. the 18g with the 90 degree inlet seems about the right size for my needs. I'm pondering the tdo5 vs. tdo6 now.

me too, i've just had my car dynoed, it got 240HP @ wheels running 17psi on a TD05H with 16g, i'm now thinking about the 300HP mark with a 20g compressor.

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:01 am

1 other thing to consider is the integrity of the gearbox, they will handle 240WHP maximum before needing to be upgraded, i am at the limit of mine now, just lucky i have a backup one with '99 STi mainshaft with dual synchros on 2nd. obviously this is dependent on driving style.

LegacySport4L · Post by **LegacySport4L** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:57 am

I've got the tranny covered. I have a WRX 5MT case with cryotreated STi Type RA internals. It wasn't cheap but the ratios are awesome and it gives me piece of mind knowing it can handle the power.

Does your 16g have the mitsu housings or IHI? If its the Mitsu 7cm ones and you're going to sell it let me know...I'd be interested.

kelley · Post by **kelley** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:18 am

just thought i would throw another option out there fir you. i've got some brand new ej257 short blocks for sale for 1400.00. there are advantages to the 25 vs. the 22. the displacement and power is obvious. it also has a better crank.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:34 am

The 25 has a better crank? I thought they were both forged items. I would think the 22 would be better in that case due to greater journal overlap as well as reciprocating parts having less leverage against the crank.

Steve

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:16 am

LegacySport4L wrote:I've got the tranny covered. I have a WRX 5MT case with cryotreated STi Type RA internals. It wasn't cheap but the ratios are awesome and it gives me piece of mind knowing it can handle the power.

don't be fooled into a false sense of security, the STi ratios will be only 10% stronger! if you are going 300HP go for straight cut mainshaft and std synchros for daily driving, thats what I'll be doing with this box WHEN it blows up.

LegacySport4L · Post by **LegacySport4L** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:54 pm

rsstiboy: Nobody in the US has broken this setup yet and there's a ton of them out there. Several with over 350awhp and some over 400 who drag race. They're a lot more than 10% stronger. These gears are factory shotpeened and then cryotreated.

as far as the 2.2t vs. the 257 goes...I would like more displacement, but I also want to do a LOT of racing on this engine and the consensus seems to be that the 2.2t holds up under more abuse. I just read through a big thread of people with 257's that crapped out due to oil starvation too.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... did=502410

I'm pretty set on the 2.2t.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:00 pm

arent our trannys shot peened aswell? Ours being legacy turbo's

kelley · Post by **kelley** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:18 pm

I am not trying to tak you out of the 22. that is your decision. but you should have the facts. I have read all of those posts and it comes down to one thing,
throwing a bunch of mods at an engine without a well tuned ecu. I have been driveing my sti for about 8000 miles and I have become quite fond of the engine characeteristics. I alo know that there is great potetial in that block. I know of somebody that has had great success with them and has made great power and torque. but don't follow the others examples. bottom line the stock ecu does not componsate well to modifications. but that has nothing to do with the block. the ecu is covered and I really think you would be much happier with that block. remember my 2.6 900 hp motor that will be done shortly. I am using no components from a 22g but many from a 257. the crank for one is very robust, it needed very little work to handle these types of stresses.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:17 pm

remember my 2.6 900 hp motor that will be done shortly.

That's something I'd pay to see in action. Heck I'd love to hear the exhaust tone.

STi_GUY · Post by **STi_GUY** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:59 pm

Can I put one on order?

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:12 pm

LegacySport4L wrote:rsstiboy: Nobody in the US has broken this setup yet and there's a ton of them out there. Several with over 350awhp and some over 400 who drag race. They're a lot more than 10% stronger. These gears are factory shotpeened and then cryotreated.

you think they'd make different gearsets for US? i doubt it, i've seen the 2 gears side by side, there's almost 1mm difference in width, I HAVE a gearbox here with my99 STi mainshaft and dual synchros on 2nd(currently not in the car) i used for a while, yes they are stronger, but don't get your hopes up that its the be all and end all of gearboxes, with 300HP you'll soon be busting boxes like the rest of us, I'm sure if you ask around you'll find more people than you expect have broken these boxes, I haven't broken mine yet, i pulled it out of the car because i went to a 50/50 torque split and a 4.111 final drive. not to say that it couldn't be broken with some silly gearchanging.

i still don't beleive that drag racing causes broken boxes, I have done over 15 redline clutch dumps and still not broken a 1st gear, however I have broken two 2nd gears and a front diff on the street. I know what I'm talking about, what makes our boxes weaker is the 3 piece casing design, it flexes too much and puts more stress on our gearsets.

LegacySport4L · Post by **LegacySport4L** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:19 am

rsstiboy wrote:
LegacySport4L wrote:rsstiboy: Nobody in the US has broken this setup yet and there's a ton of them out there. Several with over 350awhp and some over 400 who drag race. They're a lot more than 10% stronger. These gears are factory shotpeened and then cryotreated.
you think they'd make different gearsets for US? i doubt it, i've seen the 2 gears side by side, there's almost 1mm difference in width, I HAVE a gearbox here with my99 STi mainshaft and dual synchros on 2nd(currently not in the car) i used for a while, yes they are stronger, but don't get your hopes up that its the be all and end all of gearboxes, with 300HP you'll soon be busting boxes like the rest of us, I'm sure if you ask around you'll find more people than you expect have broken these boxes, I haven't broken mine yet, i pulled it out of the car because i went to a 50/50 torque split and a 4.111 final drive. not to say that it couldn't be broken with some silly gearchanging.

i still don't beleive that drag racing causes broken boxes, I have done over 15 redline clutch dumps and still not broken a 1st gear, however I have broken two 2nd gears and a front diff on the street. I know what I'm talking about, what makes our boxes weaker is the 3 piece casing design, it flexes too much and puts more stress on our gearsets.

Mine is 4.11 with 50/50 split as well. These gears are made for the v6 type ra. they are bought new and then cryotreated before install. I also have the steel 3/4 shift fork. Its not unbreakable...but stronger than you think. Rallispec has built a lot of these boxes and nobody has broken one yet. Some people have incorrectly built boxes with these gears that have broken. I know some people have broken boxes with nontreated sti gears. I'm sure someone will break one at some point...and it may be me...but it should last a while. FYI I have broken a suby tranny before...and it was from drag racing

I blew it on the line the first time I launched it with what I call the "Combination of Doom"
1) 225 wide Falken Azenis Sport or similar near R compound tire
2) grippy clutch (i use the exedy sport)
3) low end torque (i have a maxed out stock turbo wrx with loads of low end)
4) agressive launch
I launched it hard with everything but the azenis tires close to 100 times probably (I was using 225 wide kumho 712s). The first launch with the Azenis blew all but 2 the teeth off 1st gear and all teeth off the input gear. Those tires are sticky as hell when up to temperature (which mine were) if you aren't familiar with them.

kelley wrote:I am not trying to tak you out of the 22. that is your decision. but you should have the facts. I have read all of those posts and it comes down to one thing,
throwing a bunch of mods at an engine without a well tuned ecu. I have been driveing my sti for about 8000 miles and I have become quite fond of the engine characeteristics. I alo know that there is great potetial in that block. I know of somebody that has had great success with them and has made great power and torque. but don't follow the others examples. bottom line the stock ecu does not componsate well to modifications. but that has nothing to do with the block. the ecu is covered and I really think you would be much happier with that block. remember my 2.6 900 hp motor that will be done shortly. I am using no components from a 22g but many from a 257. the crank for one is very robust, it needed very little work to handle these types of stresses.

I would much rather have the bigger engine...but my concern is ultimately reliability after prolonged abuse and occasionaly detonation. It seems the ej22t has proven bombproof and the 257s are dropping like flies under less than perfect conditions. I agree that with improper tuning you can destroy any engine. My car will be well tuned with proper management regardless of which engine I choose. There's always however the possibility of detonation...and the 257 engine won't take near as much of it as the 2.2t. Also there are many little issues with the swap that I'd rather avoid.

Honestly...I've tried to talk myself into the 257...but I'd rather have something more durable because I don't want to blow an engine for at least a few years

I did some ride-a-longs in my friend's STi today at an AutoX and believe me I'm very fond of the low end torque. My racing consists of autocross and rallycross mostly so low end is key. However i have type ra gear ratios and I can run the 2.2t to 8000rpm so I can put good sized turbo on and just rev the thing out to avoid the low end. I got your PM and I'll give you a call some time this week. Things have been crazy here with taxes, a baby coming in the next couple weeks, and trying to get my WRX ready for sale, so I'm waiting until I have a little block of time free before I call you.

I've changed my turbo choice to something bigger than an 18g since the 2.2t can rev to 8000 daily without issues. Probably a "Green" or similar sized bolt-on that I'll have a 90 degree inlet put on. That turbo puts out 350-370awhp on pump gas in a wrx with the proper fuel mods and IC. This way I can run a nice safe tune with 350 or maybe a little less awhp daily. I'm also curious to see the new bolt-on offerings Garret is coming out with. Once I settle on a turbo I'll have to choose some injectors.

Am I pushing the limits of any weak points that I'm not thinking of if I run 350awhp daily? axles? will the alternator give the coil pack strong enough spark to make this run efficiently or should I get an MSD type box? What are the pieces of this puzzle that I'm forgetting? (Again I'll make other threads for brakes, suspension, chassis stiffening).

I'm open to suggestions on the engine management side of things. Plug-in would be a plus, but not a necessity. I'm not going to spend tec3 type money on it, but I want something that will work well.

thanks everyone.

kelley · Post by **kelley** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:25 am

sti guy, of course you can put one on order. just give me a call and we can discuss different specs. you can not have my identical motor, but you can have something very similar. or something quite differant. It is all up to you.
gearryan, when the car is done I'll even take you for a ride.
legacysport4l I look forward to speaking with you about your project.
also just to let people know if there is any monster cable brand products anybody wants, perfection motorsports can supply this.
the website will be up soon. there will be detailed data on the ecu's as well as a few other things very soon. I am very excited about the products that we will be offering.

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:37 pm

sounds like i have a combination of doom too then, i have 215/45/17 falken tyres (just cheapies), a exedy twin plate clutch, TD05 on fullboost by 3500RPM, and always use agressive launches, its not possible to ride a 600HP twin plate clutch i have discovered, the STi gearset will go in when i break this box, then the broken box will be built up with a straight cut mainshaft and twin std synchros on 1st, 2nd, then maybe 3rd and 4th depending on cost.

LegacySport4L · Post by **LegacySport4L** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:45 pm

sounds like a good plan. the other falken tires don't have anywhere near the violent bite that the azenis sport's do, so you should be fine for a while with the Ziex, or their other offerings. Just to be clear this is what I run:

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is there an easy way to a reliable 300whp on a legacy sport?